Tour de France 2020 | Stage 3 (Nice - Sisteron, 198 km)

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Regarding Sagan in green, I just saw this incredible stats on twitter (ammattipyöräily):

Sagan collected his 126th green jersey today. He finished 154 stages in TDF since 2012. A ratio of 81.8% (!) in green.

Riders who have led points classification in 2012-2020 when Sagan was in the race:

  • 126: Sagan
  • 7: Greipel
  • 6 : Cavendish
  • 5: Kittel
  • 2: Cancellara, Teunissen, Kristoff
  • 1: Dennis, Thomas, Démare, Gaviria
 
It doesn't "not happen often". It pretty much never happens. Bennett and Ewan are well clear of the rest of the field and there is a ton of space on the side where Ewan is going to pass. I'd say it's a pretty instinctual reaction from a sprinter who is running out of steam and feels a faster rider is coming from behind, to try and force that rider to go the extra yard by swerving a little bit.

It's not like it was a clear obstruction. Not even close.

What about changing lanes when a faster rider comes round and you jump into its slipstream, like Nizzolo did? Again, would you DQ him? You don't think that's potentially more dangerous?
Cool. We’ll continue doing how it always been done.

Be sad when something tragic happens again.
 
Aug 31, 2020
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Regarding Sagan in green, I just saw this incredible stats on twitter (ammattipyöräily):

Sagan collected his 126th green jersey today. He finished 154 stages in TDF since 2012. A ratio of 81.8% (!) in green.

Riders who have led points classification in 2012-2020 when Sagan was in the race:

  • 126: Sagan
  • 7: Greipel
  • 6 : Cavendish
  • 5: Kittel
  • 2: Cancellara, Teunissen, Kristoff
  • 1: Dennis, Thomas, Démare, Gaviria
Wow ! This is amazing.
Every player decides to give up the green jersey since he arrived. All others sprinters know they can't win against him.
 
Well, you still haven't answered my question :)

Btw, am I misunderstanding or are you actually comparing this to Groenewegen's criminal act?
My first post that you answered said "We’ll just wait until the next serious crash happens instead, until we condemn that type of move. Real progress."

No real progress happens unless they enforce a rule, that is actually there. This was a clear case. Those "instincts" that you mentioned will never be able to fade over time if they dont try to change the approach. That it not being a normal and accepted practice. Sometimes getting away with it. Both riders and officials have a responsibility here. Officials being consistent and riders having in their back-bone to not do that. It will surely take some time, but everyone will adapt. Because thats what people in general do. Thats something thats good about the human race.

And as far as your question regarding a singular case. I find the point I was making much broader, than your individual question.

Saying it "pretty much never happens", is also false. Since it has happened and will surely happen again with this grey area not being enforced every time it happens. Not willing to change old mindsets. For it to happen once is enough justification for something to be put to the test and for things to change over time. Thats why I asked "How much do we value life?". I cant speak for everybody... but just one life is worth it to me.

Thats all I have to say on the subject.
 
My first post that you answered said "We’ll just wait until the next serious crash happens instead, until we condemn that type of move. Real progress."

No real progress happens unless they enforce a rule, that is actually there. This was a clear case. Those "instincts" that you mentioned will never be able to fade over time if they dont try to change the approach. That it not being a normal and accepted practice. Sometimes getting away with it. Both riders and officials have a responsibility here. Officials being consistent and riders having in their back-bone to not do that. It will surely take some time, but everyone will adapt. Because thats what people in general do. Thats something thats good about the human race.

And as far as your question regarding a singular case. I find the point I was making much broader, than your individual question.

Saying it "pretty much never happens", is also false. Since it has happened and will surely happen again with this grey area not being enforced every time it happens. Not willing to change old mindsets. For it to happen once is enough justification for something to be put to the test and for things to change over time. Thats why I asked "How much do we value life?". I cant speak for everybody... but just one life is worth it to me.

Thats all I have to say on the subject.
To each its opinion. I see your point and agree a change in mentality is necessary, I just don't agree this kind of move is dangerous and should be punished. A sprint comes and will always come with risks. It's not a drag race.

Fine if you want to broaden the discussion, but that wasn't my intention. It's a race thread after all :)
 
Wow ! This is amazing.
Every player decides to give up the green jersey since he arrived. All others sprinters know they can't win against him.
It'd be interesting to see his cumulative winning margin, too. He usually wins by a couple of hundred points.

It's surprising that the other sprinters don't even seem to make a conscious effort to contest 2nd place. Not even on the off-chance that something might derail Sagan and they would inherit the jersey, just to claim 2nd place in the competition.
 
It'd be interesting to see his cumulative winning margin, too. He usually wins by a couple of hundred points.

It's surprising that the other sprinters don't even seem to make a conscious effort to contest 2nd place. Not even on the off-chance that something might derail Sagan and they would inherit the jersey, just to claim 2nd place in the competition.
Maybe Démare could have been that guy this year.
 
Reactions: KZD
Apparently it's ok to weave if you're going faster, but not if someone else is. Because no crash has ever been caused by someone overtaking another rider and then closing the door.
There's a huge difference between blowing past riders like Ewan did and closing the door. Nizzolo's sprint was fine, Ewan's was fine. Bennett however came dangerously close to (I assume) accidentally throwing an elbow at Ewan.
 
There's a huge difference between blowing past riders like Ewan did and closing the door. Nizzolo's sprint was fine, Ewan's was fine. Bennett however came dangerously close to (I assume) accidentally throwing an elbow at Ewan.
Ewan cuts right in front of someone just after he cuts through a dangerously small gap by the barrier which is where most of these crashes happen.

It was a good but hectic sprint lots of riders were all over the place. Ewan was amazing and he won. That's the only story I see in this stage
 
When Ewan passes the rider at the barrier he could keep going straight as you say all sprinters should but he cuts in most likely to draft. So don't risk a crash to stick itself up Bennetts arse and then cry when ye almost collide.

BTW I don't think Ewan is crying about this
The rider at the barrier is Sagan, who is slowly fading.
Ewan passes Sagan with much more speed near the barrier. Nothing wrong with that.
Ewan swerves to the right in order to pass Bennet after he already PASSED Sagan. At that moment he can swerve all he wants: he is hindering nobody behind (he has more speed), and he has to choose a line to overtake Bennet.
He decides (obviously) to not pass another rider (in this case Bennet) at the barriers and takes the less risky option (the middle). That would be wrong if the riders behind him had to brake / correct in order not to get hit by Ewan's rear wheel, but that's simply not the case here.

The only problem in this sprint is that Bennet deliberately swerves in order to try to prevent Ewan from overtaking. That's a clear foul and should be punished (or at least given a warning).
 
The rider at the barrier is Sagan, who is slowly fading.
Ewan passes Sagan with much more speed near the barrier. Nothing wrong with that.
Ewan swerves to the right in order to pass Bennet after he already PASSED Sagan. At that moment he can swerve all he wants: he is hindering nobody behind (he has more speed), and he has to choose a line to overtake Bennet.
He decides (obviously) to not pass another rider (in this case Bennet) at the barriers and takes the less risky option (the middle). That would be wrong if the riders behind him had to brake / correct in order not to get hit by Ewan's rear wheel, but that's simply not the case here.

The only problem in this sprint is that Bennet deliberately swerves in order to try to prevent Ewan from overtaking. That's a clear foul and should be punished (or at least given a warning).
Bennett is already moving left as Ewan is passing Sagan and Ewan still tries it
 
Bennett is already moving left as Ewan is passing Sagan and Ewan still tries it
What do you mean with "Ewan still tries it"?

Is there anything wrong with trying to pass a rider (left or right)?
Did Ewan do anything wrong in this sprint that could be sanctioned by the rules, or even in the spirit of sprinting / respect for other riders?

imho the answer is both a clear 'no', while Bennet clearly violated :
UCI rule 2.3.036 Sprints
Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.

ps: notice the AND, which implies that you can deviate if you aren't hindering anyone
 
What do you mean with "Ewan still tries it"?

Is there anything wrong with trying to pass a rider (left or right)?
Did Ewan do anything wrong in this sprint that could be sanctioned by the rules, or even in the spirit of sprinting / respect for other riders?

imho the answer is both a clear 'no', while Bennet clearly violated :
UCI rule 2.3.036 Sprints
Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.

ps: notice the AND, which implies that you can deviate if you aren't hindering anyone
I don't think any rider did anything more right or wrong than any other rider in that sprint.

And it's pure speculation as to whether Bennett even knew what was behind him
 

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