Tour de France 2020 | Stage 6 (Le Teil - Mont Aigoual, 191 km)

[Libertine Seguros]

Sepp Kuss' post-race interview was one of the biggest disgraces I've heard since Larry Warbasse told the fans they should be thankful for the riders ignoring the time cut in the 2016 Vuelta.

Apparently, Jumbo felt there was no reason for them to work because the stage didn't finish at the top of the mountain. Even though it actually did. As if having the strongest guy in the race so far, in striking distance of the maillot jaune, and who just won a mountaintop finish two days ago isn't a reason to try to gain time. This kind of mindset is why we get this garbage cycling where everything is an MTF and everybody just rides tempo. If that's how Jumbo are going to be tactically, they deserve to lose the race. Hopefully this time Thomas de Gendt's day 20 exploits are enough to actually score the win this time and maybe finally the péloton will learn.

Oh yea, day 20 is the ITT. The only ITT. With a mountain in it.

 

[Leinster]

Ironically, many of those posters really like the Col de la Lusette - Mont Aigoual doublette.

I think it could have worked nicely. If a group 2 or more riders had reached the top of Lusette together, with something to race for, there would have been some interesting tactical racing over that final few kilometers.

As it turned out, Lutsenko was already solo by then, and Ineos had roadblocked up the steep part enough, that there was really nothing to fight over for the final stretch.

 

[KZD]

This is why a TT (preferable an individual one) during the first week of a GT tends to improve the race because it forces climbers to recover the ground lost in the first mountain stages. I don't think that we should go back to the times of 7 flat stages in the first week but putting these mid-mountain stages won't do much good when the decisive stages are still far away.
I really hope they will learn a lesson from this but I am not optimistic.

 

[TomLPC]

Froome and G sat at home thinking " We got dropped from the Tour team for this $hit!"

At least dawg would've done something cool*

*Pre 2019

 

[Red Rick]

This is why a TT (preferable an individual one) during the first week of a GT tends to improve the race because it forces climbers to recover the ground lost in the first mountain stages. I don't think that we should go back to the times of 7 flat stages in the first week but putting these mid-mountain stages won't do much good when the decisive stages are still far away.
I really hope they will learn a lesson from this but I am not optimistic.

For Jumbo's sake, I want the 2021 Tour with no TTs and no mountain finishes

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Let us compare these two:

(yes I know that's not quite the same version of the climb they used)

 

[Red Rick]

When Dumoulin struggled on the MTF 2 days ago, he said that wasn't what he'd come for.

I wish the NOS guy had asked "So this is what you came for?"

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think the design was the problem. IMHO. I know some forum members in here think that almost every stage is a bad design. But is just not the stages only but the riders. Put the same finish at the Vuelta to see what happens.

It tends to be that almost every stage is a bad design, and sometimes even the decent designes are made useless by overall design of the stages later in the race

 

[ice&fire]

Macron should cancel this immediately with the excuse of the pandemics, give the win to Yates and troll TJV

 

[Faserr]

The most important question after today is:
Does anyone dare to go in the break tomorrow?

 

[Leinster]

Sepp Kuss' post-race interview was one of the biggest disgraces I've heard since Larry Warbasse told the fans they should be thankful for the riders ignoring the time cut in the 2016 Vuelta.

Apparently, Jumbo felt there was no reason for them to work because the stage didn't finish at the top of the mountain. Even though it actually did. As if having the strongest guy in the race so far, in striking distance of the maillot jaune, and who just won a mountaintop finish two days ago isn't a reason to try to gain time. This kind of mindset is why we get this garbage cycling where everything is an MTF and everybody just rides tempo. If that's how Jumbo are going to be tactically, they deserve to lose the race. Hopefully this time Thomas de Gendt's day 20 exploits are enough to actually score the win this time and maybe finally the péloton will learn.

Oh yea, day 20 is the ITT. The only ITT. With a mountain in it.

It's not J-V's job to make the race hard; they have the strongest rider in the race and the advantage over all other GC contenders when the ITT comes around. It's up to everyone else to make them work. When they saw Ineos going to the front, they probably thought "Well thank you," and when they saw the pace Ineos were setting and nobody else attacking they definitely thought "thank you VERY much."

The stage didn't finish at the top of the hardest mountain; if the Lusette had been the finish, then gaps in a final 1-2km attack would have become significant, but attacks on the last ramp up to Mont Aigoual would have been easily covered and made little time.

Don't get mad at Jumbo over this stage. There are others who should have been attacking on the Lusette and didn't. We can only hope those attackers who saved themselves for the Peyresourde and Marie-Blanque can actually do something.

 

[luckyboy]

Don't know why you would expect Jumbo to try and take the jersey here. There's more than a week until the next real GC stage - why would they want to work in front of the peloton for that long? Only reason to take the jersey now is if you think the Tour will be cancelled before then.

 

[BertiewasbetterthanFroome]

The Mont Aigoual features in Tim Krabbé's De Renner.

I bet it was less dull - jeez it's not tdf 2019 is it

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's not J-V's job to make the race hard; they have the strongest rider in the race and the advantage over all other GC contenders when the ITT comes around. It's up to everyone else to make them work. When they saw Ineos going to the front, they probably thought "Well thank you," and when they saw the pace Ineos were setting and nobody else attacking they definitely thought "thank you VERY much."

The stage didn't finish at the top of the hardest mountain; if the Lusette had been the finish, then gaps in a final 1-2km attack would have become significant, but attacks on the last ramp up to Mont Aigoual would have been easily covered and made little time.

Don't get mad at Jumbo over this stage. There are others who should have been attacking on the Lusette and didn't. We can only hope those attackers who saved themselves for the Peyresourde and Marie-Blanque can actually do something.

Michele Scarponi pointed out after the 2012 Giro that he and Basso had seen Hesjedal struggling at the back of the heads of state group in week 1, and done nothing about it as they figured he'd drop back as he was clinging on for grim death. Of course, Hesjedal tends to ride himself into form, and by the time they actually did get round to attacking him he was more than strong enough to respond. If Scarponi had told Niemiec, or Basso had told Szmyd and Caruso, to get on the front and absolutely drill it on those stages, Hesjedal is dropped and eliminated.

Jumbo didn't need to be sending Rogla out on a solo exploit or anything, but it was patently obvious Ineos' tempo was not them going all out to string out the bunch and drop people. While Roglič is in strong form it is absolutely in their interest to eliminate as many contenders as possible. Getting on the front and burning a few matches to reduce the bunch from 50 to 15 in size isn't glamorous, but it means far fewer people to watch in future stages. After all, it wasn't like Ineos were burning their guys running the tempo they did, because they were all still happily tapping away on the pedals all the way to the line, so you don't even have the excuse of making the rivals burn their domestiques. Enric Mas crashed and Sérgio Higuita was dropped at one point, you could test them out, and maybe just asking Kuss or Gesink to tap out at 90% for a couple of kilometres would have been sufficient to rid the bunch of some of the chaff and mean they have fewer people to keep an eye on later.

And if they did take the maillot jaune, they could always just ship it to a breakaway, you know? That used to happen all the time. Hell, one of the guys that did try and do something on the stage - Jesús Herrada - got to lead a Grand Tour in that exact same circumstance, to relieve some of Simon Yates' domestiques from péloton controlling duties.

 

[Mayomaniac]

A part of me hopes that Jumbo will continue with those tactis only to see Roglic get wrecked by a healed up Bernal and Pinot. There are also Pogi, Quintana, MAL and Landa, but with the later 3 I will wait until after stage 3, if they don't loose a decent amount of time in the (potential) crosswinds the rest of the gc contenders/pretenders has a problem.

 

[Red Rick]

Don't know why you would expect Jumbo to try and take the jersey here. There's more than a week until the next real GC stage - why would they want to work in front of the peloton for that long? Only reason to take the jersey now is if you think the Tour will be cancelled before then.

Don't know since when taking the jersey too early is treated as falling off a mountain

 

[BlueRoads]

I think a lot of teams are stupid right now even if they think they are being clever. I mean someone like Lopez - I get that today, after Lutsenko got in the break, it does not make much sense for his team to bring back the break, but he could have tried to gain like 30 seconds after Lutsenko was pretty secure. He's going to lose time in the time trial, so where does he want to get his seconds against Roglic and Bernal? Stages like these are a possibility, even if it's small. His chance to get on the podium is small anyway. Adam Yates - why not go for a few seconds more?
Right now Pinot and Buchmann are not at their best. So everyone who is good should try something now. Are they really waiting for people to fall of their bikes one after the other, so that they will be the last one standing? Movistar should definitely have tried something, what are the odds that one of them finishes top5 anyway? AG2R?
Blame the route, okay, but it was really telling that a) Alaphilippe was the only one who attacked at all when he had pretty much nothing to gain. (Obviously people like that. So why do all those who are not serious favourites for the win and not great time-triallers try and get some love?) b) the peloton with all their high class climbers was going so slow that the gap to the break increased on the climb and they did not catch van Avermaet.

I don't think there is any hint that Jumbo will be weaker in the third weak. If they were at their peak now they would try to take advantage. Just because they are strong now does not mean they are going to get weaker. I think a lot of people will regret not trying something when it's too late.

 

[Netserk]

The first week route hasn’t worked at all.

It has worked exactly as designed. Tight GC with all the favourites in the top-10, variation in stages, false promises of action to lure people to watch.

And can you feel the immense suspense?! It will be the same the next week, maybe except for Marie-Blanque. Then it's all about the last 5 km of Grand Colombier and Loze to decide the race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think there is any hint that Jumbo will be weaker in the third weak. If they were at their peak now they would try to take advantage. Just because they are strong now does not mean they are going to get weaker. I think a lot of people will regret not trying something when it's too late.

I really hope you're right. The problem is, I think a lot of them are in the mindset that they won't think of it as a missed opportunity even if it costs them the race. This is in week 1, it'll be ancient history by race's end. You know, like all those people who still think the 2011 Tour de France was a good race.

 

[Red Rick]

It has worked exactly as designed. Tight GC with all the favourites in the top-10, variation in stages, false promises of action to lure people to watch.

And can you feel the immense suspense?! It will be the same the next week, maybe except for Marie-Blanque. Then it's all about the last 5 km of Grand Colombier and Loze to decide the race.

bUt rEd rIcK wHy aRe yOu sO nEgAtIvE aBoUt tHe rAcE dEsIgN

 

[Carols]

Alas there are No Contadors' around to attack whenever their legs feel good, who have the ability to still win the GC.

 

[Red Rick]

Alas there are No Contadors' around to attack whenever their legs feel good, who have the ability to still win the GC.

"My legs felt bad so I attacked"

 

[Gigs_98]

The people saying it's stupid to attack on this stage because the riders should rather wait for the Peyresourde don't realize just how much easier the Peyresourde is than the Lusette. No they didn't rest on the easy climb to attack on the hard one. It's the hard climb they rested on.

Also the assumption that attacking here would have gained you a few seconds at best is completely unfounded. It just all depends on how you ride the Lusette. If the race explodes there and riders go over the Lusette on their own or in small groups the gaps are only gonna get bigger on the false flat afterwards.
The Mortirolo-Aprica combination doesn't lead to big time gaps because the gaps open up on the Moritrolo, it does because the riders dropped on the Mortirolo lose minutes on the low gradient grind to Aprica.
Remember Froome gaining a minute on Quintana in La Pierre Saint Martin. He attacked on the final steep bit of that climb had but once Quintana was distanced Froome gained a minute on the final 5 kilometers which are like 5% steep.

Now to be fair, it would be a bit of a risk for guys like Roglic to go all in on a climb like this if he isn't 100% confident in himself as he could pay a high price. But why not at least put the pressure on? Why not at least let Kuss ride the hard part at a really high pace? Because they have to safe themselves for doing the same thing two days later instead? On a stage that probably suits Bernal better? Where even if they drop Bernal on the Peyresourde it's hard to imagine him losing more than a minute? And what about the other teams? Maybe Jumbo is just so confident in Roglic that they don't see a need to gain time now, or maybe they are worried about Dumoulin. But is there really nobody who thinks he would benefit from exploiting the weakness of a rival. I simply cannot imagine that.

Anyway, I'm not exactly surprised it went this way, but just the sheer size of that peloton arriving at the finish was even worse than I expected.

 

[Red Rick]

Don't know why you would expect Jumbo to try and take the jersey here. There's more than a week until the next real GC stage - why would they want to work in front of the peloton for that long? Only reason to take the jersey now is if you think the Tour will be cancelled before then.

I love how this logic already takes into the account they're gonna do the same thing in the Pyrenees and Pas de Peyrol

 

[Red Rick]

The people saying it's stupid to attack on this stage because the riders should rather wait for the Peyresourde don't realize just how much easier the Peyresourde is than the Lusette. No they didn't rest on the easy climb to attack on the hard one. It's the hard climb they rested on.

Also the assumption that attacking here would have gained you a few seconds at best is completely unfounded. It just all depends on how you ride the Lusette. If the race explodes there and riders go over the Lusette on their own or in small groups the gaps are only gonna get bigger on the false flat afterwards.
The Mortirolo-Aprica combination doesn't lead to big time gaps because the gaps open up on the Moritrolo, it does because the riders dropped on the Mortirolo lose minutes on the low gradient grind to Aprica.
Remember Froome gaining a minute on Quintana in La Pierre Saint Martin. He attacked on the final steep bit of that climb had but once Quintana was distanced Froome gained a minute on the final 5 kilometers which are like 5% steep.

Now to be fair, it would be a bit of a risk for guys like Roglic to go all in on a climb like this if he isn't 100% confident in himself as he could pay a high price. But why not at least put the pressure on? Why not at least let Kuss ride the hard part at a really high pace? Because they have to safe themselves for doing the same thing two days later instead? On a stage that probably suits Bernal better? Where even if they drop Bernal on the Peyresourde it's hard to imagine him losing more than a minute? And what about the other teams? Maybe Jumbo is just so confident in Roglic that they don't see a need to gain time now, or maybe they are worried about Dumoulin. But is there really nobody who thinks he would benefit from exploiting the weakness of a rival. I simply cannot imagine that.

Anyway, I'm not exactly surprised it went this way, but just the sheer size of that peloton arriving at the finish was even worse than I expected.

Yeah this was basically PSM but with 2 miniature descents. If Jumbo had drilled it from bottom the foot of that lead in 3rd cat to halfway the Lusette, gaps would have been minutes at the finish. It's like not attacking AdH cause the final km is 5% or something.