Tour de France 2021 route rumors

[gregrowlerson]

TTT to be replaced with team beer-chug on the Champs-Elysees, after the final stage, with times counting towards GC.

Geraint Thomas is already excellent in this discipline.

Beer will only enhance his performance still further.

 

[OlavEH]

if the rumored Pyrenees come to pass, we are going to need 2 very long iTTs to provide any balance. It may still tip to the climbers.

Reminds me of 2007 where the Pailheres/Plaueau de Beille stage (which also contained a cat 2) was considered the EASY stage in the Pyrenees. During the last few years, we'd be saying that was the Queen Stage

No, we don't. If the all the riders are in equally good form, it's not like Carapaz, Bernal, MAL would manage to gain perhaps 6-8 minutes on Dumoulin, Roglic, etc., in the mountains. But if you have two very long ITTs like 50 kms each, Tom Dumoulin may very well beat the aforementioned climbers with at least 3-4 minutes in each ITT, perhaps more.

 

[Netserk]

They would put way more than that into Ganna. But one-dimensional climbers have a birthright to contend for the overall GC, right?

 

[OlavEH]

They would put way more than that into Ganna. But one-dimensional climbers have a birthright to contend for the overall GC, right?

These guys at least offer more entertaining riding than diesel engines like Dumoulin and Geraint Thomas. We need ITT kms to balance the race, but not the massive amount (100+ kms of flat ITT) that some wants. That would put so huge time gaps between the top ITT guys and the more pure climbers that it would only discourage the latter to attack.

 

[Netserk]

That depends on what opportunities the mountain stages would have to offer. We can see that in the Giro.

But agreed, insofar as the trend continues with many, but also easy and closed mountain stages.

 

[Red Rick]

Gaps in ITTs are way bigger these days than gaps between the GC field on big climbs.

 

[OlavEH]

That depends on what opportunities the mountain stages would have to offer. We can see that in the Giro.

You have to add a real shitload of mountains to balance something like 110-120 km of flat ITT. Then we need at least 4-5 real monster mountain stages, and most of them should be designed for something more than attacks on the last few kms of the stage.

 

[Netserk]

Gaps in ITTs are way bigger these days than gaps between the GC field on big climbs.

Depends on what constitutes the GC field.

 

[titan31]

That depends on what opportunities the mountain stages would have to offer. We can see that in the Giro.

But agreed, insofar as the trend continues with many, but also easy and closed mountain stages.

If Jumbo or Ineos had full strength teams at the Giro, those attacks wouldn't have happened. Unless we get a Zomegnan level GT in difficulty, I don't think you can attack those teams.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Gaps in ITTs are way bigger these days than gaps between the GC field on big climbs.

Rohan Dennis approves! Can he win the Tour next year?

 

[Red Rick]

Rohan Dennis approves! Can he win the Tour next year?

Maybe I dunno. Hard to compare his climbing to actual elite climbers, and his ITT was very underwhelming in Milano

 

[Mayomaniac]

That depends on what opportunities the mountain stages would have to offer. We can see that in the Giro.

But agreed, insofar as the trend continues with many, but also easy and closed mountain stages.

Yes, that's one of the things that people don't really talk about. You often hear about the lack of kms of ITT in the Tour, but what about the lack of proper mountain stages that allow long range attacks?
Give me a decent amount of ITTs that force the climbers to attack and proper mountain stages that give riders an incentive to attack before the final climb. Of course that means that ASO also shouldn't end the respective blocks of mountain stages with a big MTF, put them at the start.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, that's one of the things that people don't really talk about. You often hear about the lack of kms of ITT in the Tour, but what about the lack of proper mountain stages that allow long range attacks?
Give me a decent amount of ITTs that force the climbers to attack and proper mountain stages that give riders an incentive to attack before the final climb. Of course that means that ASO also shouldn't end the respective blocks of mountain stages with a big MTF, put them at the start.

Pretty much yeah. Maybe we should go for the insane big climbs more. Alternatively I wonder if bike weight shouldn't be scaled to rider weight.

 

[OlavEH]

If Jumbo or Ineos had full strength teams at the Giro, those attacks wouldn't have happened. Unless we get a Zomegnan level GT in difficulty, I don't think you can attack those teams.

Ineos has strangely enough gone from being the team with the GC contenders who are the best time trialists (Wiggins, Froome, Thomas) to being a team where the top GC contenders are mediocre/weak time trialists. If they show up next year with Bernal as captain and Carapaz as his lieutenant, I'm pretty sure they would have to attack Jumbo as madmen in the mountains.

 

[titan31]

Pretty much yeah. Maybe we should go for the insane big climbs more. Alternatively I wonder if bike weight shouldn't be scaled to rider weight.

Do those exist in France? There's no real Angliru or Zoncolan replacement there that I know of.

 

[Netserk]

If Jumbo or Ineos had full strength teams at the Giro, those attacks wouldn't have happened. Unless we get a Zomegnan level GT in difficulty, I don't think you can attack those teams.

Team strength can also be used offensively. And it’s not like a strong Sunweb team saved Kelderman, nor that a stronger team would nullify Ineos’ assault.

 

[OlavEH]

Do those exist in France? There's no real Angliru or Zoncolan replacement there that I know of.

No, not that kind of climbs. But they should have more stages where the toughest climb isn't the very last climb of the stage. And where that last kms of the last climb is the toughest part. Like Belles Filles, Peyragudes or a MTF at Mont Ventoux.

 

[Bavarianrider]

No, we don't. If the all the riders are in equally good form, it's not like Carapaz, Bernal, MAL would manage to gain perhaps 6-8 minutes on Dumoulin, Roglic, etc., in the mountains. But if you have two very long ITTs like 50 kms each, Tom Dumoulin may very well beat the aforementioned climbers with at least 3-4 minutes in each ITT, perhaps more.

If they can t make IT Up then they dont deserve to be on the Podium. The GC is for the best all around Rider. Not Just for the WHO is the skinniest girl.

 

[Red Rick]

Do those exist in France? There's no real Angliru or Zoncolan replacement there that I know of.

It's as simple as cranking some tarmac on a goat track.

 

[OlavEH]

If they can t make IT Up then they dont deserve to be on the Podium. The GC is for the best all around Rider. Not Just for the WHO is the skinniest girl.

I prefer to have a winner that I consider to be an entertaining rider, and not diesel engines like Wiggins, Thomas and Dumolin. Most of the times these kind of riders win GTs, it's has been an dull version. If ASO and RCS designed all GTs after your wishes, these kind of riders would have won a vast majority of GTs. But every man to his taste; if you like dull riding, that is your preference.

 

[RedheadDane]

If they can t make IT Up then they dont deserve to be on the Podium. The GC is for the best all around Rider. Not Just for the WHO is the skinniest girl.

And what's wrong with being a skinny girl?

 

[gregrowlerson]

My feeling is that most of the South American riders shouldn't have a realistic chance to win the tour de france. If you cannot time trial with (or at least close to) the best than that is your problem imo, and you can go to the giro instead. Nothing wrong with having 100 kms of ITT, but also have harder mountain stages than the 2012 edition. 2012 Wiggins probably loses to most other recent Tour winners in that instance.

 

[RedheadDane]

If you cannot time trial with (or at least close to) the best than that is your problem imo, and you can go to the giro instead.

This year it was the other way around; if you cannot time trial with (or at least close to) the best, then you can go to the Tour instead.

 

[titan31]

This year it was the other way around; if you cannot time trial with (or at least close to) the best, then you can go to the Tour instead.

Always the Vuelta if both of them go TT heavy. I do hope though that one of Giro and Tour are less TTy every year. Gives more of a variety

 

[OlavEH]

My feeling is that most of the South American riders shouldn't have a realistic chance to win the tour de france. If you cannot time trial with (or at least close to) the best than that is your problem imo, and you can go to the giro instead. Nothing wrong with having 100 kms of ITT, but also have harder mountain stages than the 2012 edition. 2012 Wiggins probably loses to most other recent Tour winners in that instance.

I agree on a guy like MAL who really can't time trial at all. But Bernal is at least a halfway descent time trialist, and is IMO a just as worthy TDF-winner asThomas or Dumoulin.