Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 13: Nîmes – Carcassonne, 219.9 km

[titan31]

The Giro is not the tour.

For an Italian though, the Giro supercedes the Tour.

 

[Breezy1985]

The difference of course is that Cav has 4 wins from 4 sprints. None of the superstars we keep hearing about who would eat him for breakfast ever get more than a 50% hit rate at a grand tour.

Do you really honestly believe that if Ewan was there Cavendish would have 4 from 4. Take Bennett or Ewan out of last year and they would probably have had 4 stages too

 

[Leinster]

The difference of course is that Cav has 4 wins from 4 sprints. None of the superstars we keep hearing about who would eat him for breakfast ever get more than a 50% hit rate at a grand tour.

Kittel and Greipel both have 4- and 5-win Tours that Cav started. Ewan and Bennett split 5 of the 6 (maybe 7?) sprint stages between them last year, with VanAert (who has only contested 1 sprint this year) taking the other. And that’s kinda been the point of that side of the argument; on a lot of Cav’s multi-win Tours (like this year) he has been the only top-flight sprinter in the race.

 

[canarydan23]

He's best every sprinter around though. Until Cav can show he can beat Ewan and Bennett, and even Merlier where Merlier goes for the sprint (Merlier was leadout for Philipsen in the ones he didn't win), can't say he's better than those guys now tbh

Erm, in his last sprint that he went head to head with Merlier and Ewan, he won.

 

[Leggitte]

Definitely the greatest stage race sprinter not sure about greatest sprinter of all time.

Freddy Maertens, Vuelta 1977?

 

[yaco]

Because it seems like a rather laughable suggestion. Whats the point?

Why is it a laughable suggestion ? Riders who win a stage combativity award ride with a dot on their jersey.

 

[burning]

Tbf Cipollini at the very least has a strong argument. I'd say it's 1a and 1b myself.

Cipollini finished Tour and Vuelta exactly 0 times, and Giro sprinting field in his era was not the best either.

 

[Leinster]

That's the Bennett who couldn't beat Philipsen at Scheldeprijs? That Bennett?

Where did Cav finish at Scheldeprijs again?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Do you really honestly believe that if Ewan was there Cavendish would have 4 from 4. Take Bennett or Ewan out of last year and they would probably have had 4 stages too

Just based off results each would have 1 more stage win if the other wasn’t present leaving Bennett at 4 and Ewan at 3. But than without one or the other the whole dynamic changes as well.

 

[canarydan23]

Where did Cav finish at Scheldeprijs again?

Behind his team's lead sprinter?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

He's best every sprinter around though. Until Cav can show he can beat Ewan and Bennett, and even Merlier where Merlier goes for the sprint (Merlier was leadout for Philipsen in the ones he didn't win), can't say he's better than those guys now tbh

He beat Merlier and Ewan in Belgium just before this tour.

Personally I'm not saying he's the best but he has just done something amazing.

 

[dicanio_michael]

Do you really honestly believe that if Ewan was there Cavendish would have 4 from 4. Take Bennett or Ewan out of last year and they would probably have had 4 stages too

First Ewan needs to be here. The fact is, he started but wasn't here.

 

[movingtarget]

Kittel and Greipel both have 4- and 5-win Tours that Cav started. Ewan and Bennett split 5 of the 6 (maybe 7?) sprint stages between them last year, with VanAert (who has only contested 1 sprint this year) taking the other. And that’s kinda been the point of that side of the argument; on a lot of Cav’s multi-win Tours (like this year) he has been the only top-flight sprinter in the race.

No doubt he entered the right grand tour but no one could foresee the carnage on some of the early stages for GC and sprinters. But at the moment Matthews is not even getting close.

 

[titan31]

Erm, in his last sprint that he went head to head with Merlier and Ewan, he won.

Fair enough with Merlier there, but Ewan was also beat by someone called Sasha Weemaes in that sprint. He didn't have close to a clean sprint there as his leadout almost crashed. But fair enough still.

 

[canarydan23]

Fair enough with Merlier there, but Ewan was also beat by someone called Sasha Weemaes in that sprint. He didn't have close to a clean sprint there as his leadout almost crashed. But fair enough still.

That's not true, Ewan was right up there in the closing metres, chose the wrong side of the road and sat up when he realised he was beat.

 

[titan31]

Cipollini finished Tour and Vuelta exactly 0 times, and Giro sprinting field in his era was not the best either.

Ya, I won't deny his attitude in regards finishing GTs was crap, but his record in sprints is still ridiculous. Between 1989 and 2003, he failed to win a GT stage only once in 94 and that's cos he had a big crash and only did like 3 GT stages that year (missed the Giro and Tour). He has the most sprint stage wins ever, 2nd most GT stage wins overall behind Merckx and regularly best everyone around in sprints he entered. Considering he barely ever finished a GT, his win rate from stages entered to win is ridiculous.

 

[luckyboy]

You can say chapeau to Cavendish for beating who is here and also say these sprints would be more interesting with a few of Ewan, Ackermann, Démare/Ackermann not in *** form, Bennett on another team, Merlier here.

I'm not saying Cavendish would be losing every stage to all of them but they would be better competition than second-tier guys like Philipsen, Bouhanni, Greipel, Van Poppel.

I thought Matthews and espcially Colbrelli would be more of a factor but eh.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Odds people would complain this much about the sprinting field if it had been Bennett winning 3 stages instead of Cav 4?

There would be fewer complaints for obvious records. One of the most revered records in the sport is being broken, and it's little more than a procession. Fans want to feel as though the rider has 'earned it'...

 

[Leinster]

No doubt he entered the right grand tour but no one could foresee the carnage on some of the early stages for GC and sprinters. But at the moment Matthews is not even getting close.

Matthews never gets close. The year he won green, he was winning stages on top of hills in Mende, and finishing 7th in flat stages, and all the other sprinters crashed out or DNF. The year after, Sunweb had him leading out for Bol.

There’s always an element of right-place-right-time in sprinting, Cav has proven to be the best at that for many years, in more ways than one.

 

[movingtarget]

Matthews never gets close. The year he won green, he was winning stages on top of hills in Mende, and finishing 7th in flat stages, and all the other sprinters crashed out or DNF. The year after, Sunweb had him leading out for Bol.

There’s always an element of right-place-right-time in sprinting, Cav has proven to be the best at that for many years, in more ways than one.

Yes these days Matthews is the master at bunch sprints for fourth place. Like Sagan he's missing some of the top end speed he used to have but he was never a flat sprint specialist but on his day like Gerrans he could do enough to win a flat sprint sometimes.

 

[SarahtheDane]

Thinking about it, Mørkøv should have taken the win fro Cavendish, as a form of payback for wednesday.

 

[spalco]

First thing he did was park his bike, get off, and figuratively die on the ground. That was a right mess with then being swapped and I think Quickstep did panic a little when they got swapped and separated with I believe Ballerini going for it and Morkov looked like he was actually sprinting for it until he realized Cav was alongside him.

Imagine Morkov accidentally (or "accidentally") taking that win.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Imagine Morkov accidentally (or "accidentally") taking that win.

Darn phone grammatical errors.


That would have been an awkward bus ride potentially but I still think Cav would be happy though deep down a little miffed.

 

[Breezy1985]

First Ewan needs to be here. The fact is, he started but wasn't here.

I have nothing against Cavendish beating who is here but you made a snide comment about "superstar" sprinters and their records knowing that you cannot say Cavendish is better because he won a different amount of races in a different year against a different field.

 

[Breezy1985]

Just based off results each would have 1 more stage win if the other wasn’t present leaving Bennett at 4 and Ewan at 3. But than without one or the other the whole dynamic changes as well.

And the number of winnable stages and the tactics and motives of other teams changes. Comparing different tours is pointless