Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 3: Lorient - Pontivy, 183.9 km

[Samu Cuenca]

Well after.... other sporting events tonight, the stage is set for JA to bring joy back to the nation. No pressure!

I think, Ala would be a great penalty taker. Just imagine how much his balls would swerve! (no pun intended)

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I think, Ala would be a great penalty taker. Just imagine how much his balls would swerve! (no pun intended)

They only get one ball for a penalty dude

 

[Avoriaz]

Has Nibali said anything about today yet?

 

[Leinster]

Yes, I am aware, I got your point.

Here is what you don't get about mine:

First, this is about "bunch sprint" stages only.

Second, I am not extending the current 3K zone, I am changing how it functions, so in the "finale zone", GC time no longer runs - it simply stops at (for instance) the 10K portal.

Third, it makes NO difference to the overall GC, if their "timed finish line" is the 10K portal. They still need to cross the actual finish line, but no longer need to worry about gaps after 10K.

For all the teams there for the stage, they keep racing, but the GC riders start to drop off the back, reducing the peloton in size, and thereby the danger.

So, you BOTH avoid GC riders crashing out in the last 10K, because of all the fight for position, AND you get "cleaner" sprint finishes.

It's win/win.

And sure, until the 10K mark, the GC teams will want to be up there, but sprint trains rarely start that far out, and never with the high degree intensity of multiple trains fighting over position.

Ok, but I think the problem when you call the time gaps early like that, is you get 50-100 guys who say "I have nothing else to race for" and people sit up, and you get a situation like the final stage of the 2018 Giro where a handful of riders from the sprint teams actually contest the stage, but all the GC group rolled in 15 minutes later because the stage time was taken with 3 laps to go.

 

[Leinster]

Has Nibali said anything about today yet?

He's too busy rubbing his hands together and smiling.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Ok, but I think the problem when you call the time gaps early like that, is you get 50-100 guys who say "I have nothing else to race for" and people sit up, and you get a situation like the final stage of the 2018 Giro where a handful of riders from the sprint teams actually contest the stage, but all the GC group rolled in 15 minutes later because the stage time was taken with 3 laps to go.

Yes, except this is the Tour, so you will get 100 riders still racing - now with more room to do so

Effectively what we are creating here, is a groupetto for GC riders, on sprinters stages - but just for the last 10K.

 

[BlueRoads]

I think, Ala would be a great penalty taker. Just imagine how much his balls would swerve! (no pun intended)

I don't want to imagine Ala's swerving balls. Stop that picture.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

He's too busy rubbing his hands together and smiling.

- while looking at Fuglsang over his shoulder, and humming "hello darkness my old friend"

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I don't want to imagine Ala's swerving balls. Stop that picture.

It's quite the rare sight.

Normally he pushes them back up, like a sumo wrestler, to get less drag on steep climbs!

 

[Orbit501]

I caught up late with the stage and haven't read all this thread.

Can someone please update on Haig as can find very little info. All info seems to be on Ewan and Thomas injuries. All it says about Haig is a DNF.

He didn't look good at all.

 

[ciranda]

Team Doctor Piotr Kosielski:

@jackhaig93 suffered a fractured left collarbone and concussion. He is conscious and okay and scans showed no head trauma. He will remain in hospital overnight for observation following the team and UCI protocols.

https://twitter.com/BHRVictorious

 

[Orbit501]

Team Doctor Piotr Kosielski:

@jackhaig93 suffered a fractured left collarbone and concussion. He is conscious and okay and scans showed no head trauma. He will remain in hospital overnight for observation following the team and UCI protocols.

https://twitter.com/BHRVictorious

Thanks for the update.
Let's hope all will be ok.

On a racing level. Such a shame, as he was going really well and looking good.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Wow, Chris Horner is not holding back on the Jumbo KNUCKLEHEADS.
Interesting analysis in that before the crash Roglic was alone because all of his teammates are bashed up apart from van Aert was on the other side of the road. When he crashed Van Aert was allowed to stay up the road to finish 15th. Okay you could argue Van Aert has a chance of yellow after the ITT but still if he had dropped back for Roglic he would have significantly cut the time deficit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bWsJZ1oJo

 

[zlev11]

Yes, I am aware, I got your point.

Here is what you don't get about mine:

First, this is about "bunch sprint" stages only.

Second, I am not extending the current 3K zone, I am changing how it functions, so in the "finale zone", GC time no longer runs - it simply stops at (for instance) the 10K portal.

Third, it makes NO difference to the overall GC, if their "timed finish line" is the 10K portal. They still need to cross the actual finish line, but no longer need to worry about gaps after 10K.

For all the teams there for the stage, they keep racing, but the GC riders start to drop off the back, reducing the peloton in size, and thereby the danger.

So, you BOTH avoid GC riders crashing out in the last 10K, because of all the fight for position, AND you get "cleaner" sprint finishes.

It's win/win.

And sure, until the 10K mark, the GC teams will want to be up there, but sprint trains rarely start that far out, and never with the high degree intensity of multiple trains fighting over position.

why dont we just make the Tour de France be Calvinball instead of cycling next year at this point?

 

[Leinster]

Wow, Chris Horner is not holding back on the Jumbo KNUCKLEHEADS.
Interesting analysis in that before the crash Roglic was alone because all of his teammates are bashed up apart from van Aert was on the other side of the road. When he crashed Van Aert was allowed to stay up the road to finish 15th. Okay you could argue Van Aert has a chance of yellow after the ITT but still if he had dropped back for Roglic he would have significantly cut the time deficit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bWsJZ1oJo

Roglic crashed with 10km to go. At the time, it was unclear if he would be able to even continue the race. Adding vanAert's considerable engine to the chase would have got him to the finish 10, maybe 20, seconds sooner, but it took him more than a minute to even get back on his bike. WvA has a realistic chance of getting yellow after the TT, Roglic has a realistic chance of abandoning the race before the TT, it would make no sense to sacrifice the one for the sake of the other.

 

[pinkobalinko]

Even 10 WvAs wouldn't help. Remember, there was another crash and even Pogacar, who was fast to pass by, lost 20+ seconds. No chance for those comming from behind.
Jumbo was just incredibly unlucky on stages 1 snd 3.

 

[saunaking]

Didn't the Demare group go down at 15km? The race was well and truly on by then anyway.

Then let's debate the proper distance. Maybe it depends on the stage by looking at the roadbook. Check out phillipe Gilbert's tweet /youtube video today
But the races should try taking times at 10/15/xyz kms and see how it goes

 

[saunaking]

That only makes sense if the front wheel is blocked by another wheel.
Like at 3:44 in this video. Play at 0.25x speed.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22KO81dygVo

when i play it at .25 speed looks like cobrelli begins to be pulled down and to his left by roglic's fall but manages to get out of it. which could be explained by Cobrelli's assertion of handlebar tieup

 

[saunaking]

It's not pointless. These are mass start races, that's how the timing works in mass start races. You have to be able to negotiate the peloton on flat, fast stages just as well as you can climb or time trial to win the Tour. If you neutralize the last 10k or whatever you end up with the same exact fight for position except it's just earlier. At that point you're saying everyone who wants can just sit up and ride to the finish? That would be a complete farce, much more than today.

Look, Roglic is my favorite rider and today he lost his chance to win the Tour. But it was partly his own fault. He had Van Aert doing an absolute perfect job for him to keep him out of trouble at the front and then for some reason he lost his wheel and never found it again. It is not the first time this has happened, in fact it almost always happens. He is not great at positioning and fighting for position. You know who is? Carapaz. He stayed glued to Kwiatkowski's wheel the whole stage and stayed out of trouble and now has a big jump on a bunch of the GC contenders because of it.

Not true. This is not how timing works in mass start races. Already you get neutralized in case of a crash in the last 3km. Now obviously 3km is not when things get hairy.
Its much before that.
Will we punters just debate this amongst ourselves or look to the actual riders for ideas? Check out DeClerq's thoughts and watch Phillipe Gilberts youtube video explaining why this stage should have had times taken at 5km. He/they studied the roadbook, they were aware of the risks and took the concerns to the organizers.
This is a professional way to handle it and hopefully make it into more of a structured process.
Then of course the idiots at UCI said, no to this.... FFS

 

[saunaking]

Splits with measurable time gaps happen in the last 5km of stages all the time. It's a big reason Sky were always seen at or near the front of even the sprintiest of sprint stages, well past the 3km crash limit, to make sure they didn't get caught behind those gaps and cough up 15, 20 seconds just because somebody in 40th place lost the wheel.

I want to say it had a significant effect on GC in the early stages of a Tour de Suisse one year.

Please share some of these splits in the last 5km of SPRINT stages which is what we are talking about here. And if you find one example of 4 seconds gained 6 years ago that kind of proves my point

 

[JosefK]

Roglic crashed with 10km to go. At the time, it was unclear if he would be able to even continue the race. Adding vanAert's considerable engine to the chase would have got him to the finish 10, maybe 20, seconds sooner, but it took him more than a minute to even get back on his bike. WvA has a realistic chance of getting yellow after the TT, Roglic has a realistic chance of abandoning the race before the TT, it would make no sense to sacrifice the one for the sake of the other.

I agree. I like Horner's YouTube clips and analyses, but sometimes he's a little trigger-happy with his knucklehead awards.

 

[saunaking]

Ok, but I think the problem when you call the time gaps early like that, is you get 50-100 guys who say "I have nothing else to race for" and people sit up, and you get a situation like the final stage of the 2018 Giro where a handful of riders from the sprint teams actually contest the stage, but all the GC group rolled in 15 minutes later because the stage time was taken with 3 laps to go.

Maybe that would happen. I don't know. That would not be a great look but I think something needs to be done and between doing nothing and at least TRYING a time check at 10k or whatever is worth a shot.

 

[DaLong]

Alpecin-Fenix truly smashed that lead out. Even without the crash they were in perfect position. I mean, without Sam Bennett (and now Caleb Ewan) is there anyone else to even compete?

 

[Savant12]

This Tour winner is looking like the rider who comes away best from the many crashes that have happened and are yet to happen.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Ladies and gents, let’s try and keep things civil please.

Several posts have been removed mainly due to bickering, personal insults or replying to posts containing them.