Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 5: Changé – Laval Espace Mayenne, 27.2 km (ITT)

[gregrowlerson]

Anna is everybody's weakness isn't she?

I never thought she was cute, but she looks cute there.

Maybe she can become a podium girl after she retires?

@BlueRoads

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15H59T15ceM

I thought he’d continue the Jumbo knucklehead theme but he pretty much ignored WVA and Roglic. but stopped short of giving UAE the Big K.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am starting to feel that Pogacar is the equivalent of Tom Brady. Either you love him or hate him. I recommend everybody to love him otherwise you are going to have the most horrible next 10 years of cycling. I don't think anybody can help us.

 

[Escarabajo]

People will say Pogacar is only beating a second hand Roglic and Thomas.

LOL, like Thomas ever had a chance against Pogacar.

 

[Leinster]

I am starting to feel that Pogacar is the equivalent of Tom Brady. Either you love him or hate him. I recommend everybody to love him otherwise you are going to have the most horrible next 10 years of cycling. I don't anybody can help us.

You just made me try to imagine what life must be like for someone who decided in 2002 that they hated Tom Brady.

 

[JosefK]

At the risk of drawing the ire of Remco fans (of which I am one), maybe the new Eddy Merckx is not Belgian but Slovenian instead. . . . About to be a multiple TDF winner at 22, winner of a monument already . . . who knows what next? By the time he reaches the age at which Froome won his first grand tour (the magical 2011 Vuelta), Pogi might already have won more TDFs than Froome during his entire career. I know, I know. I'm kicking a hornets' nest.

 

[VeloMaster]

Hornet's nest, or not ... you illustrate an excellent point. Remco has certainly inspired many fans' dreams of world domination, but Pogacar already has the the world-beating result. For the latter, that is, right now, right here. For the former, it's wait and see.

Pace, hornets. I am not saying Remco won't make it; we simply do not know at present.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I am starting to feel that Pogacar is the equivalent of Tom Brady. Either you love him or hate him. I recommend everybody to love him otherwise you are going to have the most horrible next 10 years of cycling. I don't anybody can help us.

I like sugar but if i take too much i feel like vomiting. i donot hate Pogacar but too much of a good thing is a bad thing. It is upto him to prove that he normally produces this kind of power by releasing his power files and the test results for the experts to dissect. Maybe he is a once in century outlier. For sure he is not in the normal bandwidth of cycling champions who themselves are an outlier of sorts. He is an outlier of outliers. While he may win 5 monuments and all 3 GTs, he does not participate in every race which can be watched. Even if i get frustrated with cycling in the near term, there are enough sports to watch in the world.
PS: it feels more of a PCM game than real life where u use every bug in the game to your advantage to beat riders better than you. time to watch Euro 2020

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes, and Vingegaards pre-stage orders were "stay with Roglic, no matter what"

Or more specifically; "Stay with Roglic no matter what, unless you give him your bike. Then you just gotta wait for a new."

 

[Rackham]

While I agree that principally, JV should have a team that is 110% committed for Roglic, we are talking about crumbles (in terms of time gain).

It took exactly 45 seconds between Roglic crashing, and him getting back onto the bike (the second the mechanic gave him a last push). He was struggling to get up to speed for the first 30 seconds he got back on the bike, checking his road rash and adjusting his clothing. He probably lost another 10 seconds there. In the end, he lost 1:21 at the finish. So when he was up to speed between 9K and the finish, he rode about 25 seconds slower than the first group on the road. How much do you think he would have gained with WvA pulling? 10 seconds? 15 seconds?
While it's now clear for you that WvA's personal ambitions (yellow) were not feasible after his subpar TT, for me it's now clear, after the TT, that those 10-15 seconds that Roglic could have potentially gained by WvA pulling in stage 3, are a small loss and largely irrelevant.

This might make sense to you, but we're talking about the same team & rider who won the Vuelta for 24 seconds last year. Every second counts.

You keep wanting to give us the impression, that WvA was somehow "selfish", when all information points to the contrary. - It honestly feels like you are just a WvA hater, desperately trying to make a non-existent case.

It was - and that has been CONFIRMED by the team - a TEAM ORDER, that WvA would NOT wait if there was a crash or technical - because the TEAM had other plan for him, on that stage and the next ones.

If you disagree with that from a tactical perspective - fine - but blame the tactics on the team, not on the kid just doing what he has been told to do.

You're deflecting from the issue, which is JV's entire miscalculated set-up in this Tour where one rider (van Aert) is allowed to chase a different objective from the overall goal (which should be winning the Tour).

Just imagine having Tom Boonen/Fabian Cancellara/whichever classics specialist on a GC team chasing stages & yellow week one whilst Contador aims for the Tour win & the same crash scenario from Monday occurs? (i.e. Contador goes down, yet his teammate pulls for himself at the front).

It's not personal against van Aert (no matter how much you might wish to nullify this opinion with claims of me being a childish "hater!"), no, the issue is the entire error of judgement from both JV & van Aert which goes back months in their preparation for the Tour. It's even more egregious & difficult to swallow considering Wout van Aert's own lack of preparation due to the appendicitis operation a couple of months ago (which he admitted had set him back).

So Jumbo Visma took Primoz Roglic (number one rider in the world who just won Basque Country in which he actually beat Pogacar) aiming for the GC, gave him 5 teammates, whilst Wout van Aert (with uncertain form) was given Mike Teunissen with the aim of winning stages & taking yellow week one (& also pre-Tour statements saying he won't push hard in the mountains like last year in order to save himself for post-Tour races).

And after the bad crash day 1 (in which many riders were hurt to various degrees), after Gesink abandoned (leaving them with a lack of options to pull on lower category mountains) & after Roglic himself hit the deck on stage 3, JV's DS sitting in the car remained totally committed to that pre-Tour set-up & plan.

That's not how a team wins the Tour & both JV + van Aert are at fault for that. It's just the way it is. Now I'm curious to see how much WvA helps in the coming weeks (because the loss of Gesink puts even more pressure on the team).

 

[jaylew]

Horner's perspective on stage racing, is very "American" (or old school if you will).
It's "all for the captain, on every stage, always" - like Armstrong demanded his teams worked.
Basically a king and his 7 slaves.

But modern cycling doesn't work that way. Many of the domestiques are stars in their own right today, with their own personal ambitions, that the teams needs to fulfill, or those riders will find a team that can fulfill them.

That includes being able to go all out on a GT TT, if you are Ganna, or Bissegger, or Kung, or Asgreen, or Bjerg, etc.

As for Pogacar leaving the start early, Horner doesn't know what he is talking about.
Time starts counting, when the rider leaves the ramp - it doesn't matter for his TT time, if he is a couple of seconds early or late.
The "starting countdown" is only there as a guide, to maintain an even spacing between riders starting.

I must admit, I don't know exactly how much time you can be early or late - obviously there is a limit (probably only a few seconds), which is why riders sometimes lose time by being late for the start.

I don't think it's an "American" or "old school" attitude or that there is some new trend. Seems like there have always been teams who do it both ways.

And he specifically said that he didn't know if Pogacar would be penalized because he didn't know the rule.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

This might make sense to you, but we're talking about the same team & rider who won the Vuelta for 24 seconds last year. Every second counts.



You're deflecting from the issue, which is JV's entire miscalculated set-up in this Tour where one rider (van Aert) is allowed to chase a different objective from the overall goal (which should be winning the Tour).

Just imagine having Tom Boonen/Fabian Cancellara/whichever classics specialist on a GC team chasing stages & yellow week one whilst Contador aims for the Tour win & the same crash scenario from Monday occurs? (i.e. Contador goes down, yet his teammate pulls for himself at the front).

It's not personal against van Aert (no matter how much you might wish to nullify this opinion with claims of me being a childish "hater!"), no, the issue is the entire error of judgement from both JV & van Aert which goes back months in their preparation for the Tour. It's even more egregious & difficult to swallow considering Wout van Aert's own lack of preparation due to the appendicitis operation a couple of months ago (which he admitted had set him back).

So Jumbo Visma took Primoz Roglic (number one rider in the world who just won Basque Country in which he actually beat Pogacar) aiming for the GC, gave him 5 teammates, whilst Wout van Aert (with uncertain form) was given Mike Teunissen with the aim of winning stages & taking yellow week one (& also pre-Tour statements saying he won't push hard in the mountains like last year in order to save himself for post-Tour races).

And after the bad crash day 1 (in which many riders were hurt to various degrees), after Gesink abandoned (leaving them with a lack of options to pull on lower category mountains) & after Roglic himself hit the deck on stage 3, JV's DS sitting in the car remained totally committed to that pre-Tour set-up & plan.

That's not how a team wins the Tour & both JV + van Aert are at fault for that. It's just the way it is. Now I'm curious to see how much WvA helps in the coming weeks (because the loss of Gesink puts even more pressure on the team).

In the unlikely event that Roglic loses the Tour by a small margin, WVA should be loaned to AF and forced to spend next season working for VDP. All that effort to get the jersey and he gained one second in the TT.

 

[Volderke]

Also this was the picture I was waiting for someone to post, I guess it's pretty appropriate again

 

[Armchair cyclist]

I am starting to feel that Pogacar is the equivalent of Tom Brady. Either you love him or hate him.

Or you are vaguely aware of who he is but have no reason to have any strong opinion about him either way.

 

[staubsauger]

The way I remember it, he was down himself.

They wouldn't sacrifice Kuss on stage 1, while Gesink was 15 minutes ahead across the line.

Martin told German tabloid Bild that he got Kuss' bike, because their team car was the last of the convoy!

 

[saganftw]

In the unlikely event that Roglic loses the Tour by a small margin, WVA should be loaned to AF and forced to spend next season working for VDP. All that effort to get the jersey and he gained one second in the TT.

i think its more than just about tactics in tdf, having van aert in team is not just to help roglic, there is a larger objective which is the rest of the season, if you tell van aert he cant ride for his own objectives, he is wasting time in tdf and then you lose a great rider, so it needs to be a compromise between what you want in tdf and what you want in the rest of the season...only other option is to get rid of him, have a full time domestique and hope for the best

there is a question about van aerts own judgement tho, he wasnt strong enough to even sprint for podium place in stages 1 and 2 and didnt contest sprint at all in two flat stages so what was the plan here if he wasnt 100% anyway still going for yellow? if the crashes didnt happen he would be behind roglic and vingegaard, not just vdp and pog so yellow jersey was far away right from the start

 

[OldCranky]

I never thought she was cute, but she looks cute there.

Maybe she can become a podium girl after she retires?

@BlueRoads

I think she'll probably be a bit too busy helping to run SD Worx for podium arm candy duties lol. I do think she's cute incidentally, but I'm also in awe of her as a cyclist.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

i think its more than just about tactics in tdf, having van aert in team is not just to help roglic, there is a larger objective which is the rest of the season, if you tell van aert he cant ride for his own objectives, he is wasting time in tdf and then you lose a great rider, so it needs to be a compromise between what you want in tdf and what you want in the rest of the season...only other option is to get rid of him, have a full time domestique and hope for the best

there is a question about van aerts own judgement tho, he wasnt strong enough to even sprint for podium place in stages 1 and 2 and didnt contest sprint at all in two flat stages so what was the plan here if he wasnt 100% anyway still going for yellow? if the crashes didnt happen he would be behind roglic and vingegaard, not just vdp and pog so yellow jersey was far away right from the start

Having that sort of highly paid star classics rider or sprinter on a full on GC team never really works unless they're exceptionally good at looking after themselves or have agreed to work on all but the odd stage because they get support everywhere else. In WVA's case it's particularly difficult because the level of support he gets at his target races isn't that great.

None of this should've mattered on stage 2 of course. WVA's super strong and was one of their few relatively uninjured riders, he had to be called back.

 

[tobydawq]

As for Pogacar leaving the start early, Horner doesn't know what he is talking about.
Time starts counting, when the rider leaves the ramp - it doesn't matter for his TT time, if he is a couple of seconds early or late.
The "starting countdown" is only there as a guide, to maintain an even spacing between riders starting.

I must admit, I don't know exactly how much time you can be early or late - obviously there is a limit (probably only a few seconds), which is why riders sometimes lose time by being late for the start.

Lol, now you're just making up rules. Of course the time starts when the time starts... So if you're late, you're late and lose the time.

 

[Escarabajo]

I like sugar but if i take too much i feel like vomiting. i donot hate Pogacar but too much of a good thing is a bad thing. It is upto him to prove that he normally produces this kind of power by releasing his power files and the test results for the experts to dissect. Maybe he is a once in century outlier. For sure he is not in the normal bandwidth of cycling champions who themselves are an outlier of sorts. He is an outlier of outliers. While he may win 5 monuments and all 3 GTs, he does not participate in every race which can be watched. Even if i get frustrated with cycling in the near term, there are enough sports to watch in the world.
PS: it feels more of a PCM game than real life where u use every bug in the game to your advantage to beat riders better than you. time to watch Euro 2020

Well, that's why I put 10 years as we could learn something 10 years from now. We all know the UCI is worthless so we could be in this situation for a long time.

 

[Netserk]

Having that sort of highly paid star classics rider or sprinter on a full on GC team never really works unless they're exceptionally good at looking after themselves or have agreed to work on all but the odd stage because they get support everywhere else. In WVA's case it's particularly difficult because the level of support he gets at his target races isn't that great.

None of this should've mattered on stage 2 of course. WVA's super strong and was one of their few relatively uninjured riders, he had to be called back.

Sagan in 2015 was the perfect helper. Cancellara too.

 

[pvieira91]

Is Pogacar better than Fillipo Ghanna in TT?