Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 7: Vierzon – Le Creusot, 249.1 km

[saganftw]

He wasn't the one putting his hands on another rider

 

[Valv.Piti]

Uran, Carapaz, Thomas, even Porte who is at 2 minutes will most likely take over in GC (maybe not Thomas, but Thomas has more podium pedigree).

That is, ignoring the fact that Mas risks to loose his temper and gets DSQ'd for misbehaviour.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1410974374165897219

View: https://twitter.com/soydiegoayus/status/1410974374165897219?s=20

Carapaz is better, but Id take Mas over any of these guys in a 3 weeks bike race considering the circumstances right now with Thomas crashiing/declining and Richie being far down the GC. Wouldn't write them off off course. Uran also looks good as well, but I think Mas is a tad better in the high mountains - especially the 3rd week.

Also, lets wait with the bashing until we know what happened. Guessing it relates to the crash, maybe Kwito caused it and Valverde and Mas went to speak to him and ask whats up.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

if they assume (just like we all do) that pogacar is untouchable then he is not in the equation, he just happens to profit from it

And we all assumed Bernal was untouchable in the Giro, until he started cracking. Unfortunately, no team challenged him and put the hurt on before he did, because they might have benefited from it in the end. People always assume every great champ is untouchable, until he becomes touchable.

 

[Netserk]

Uran, Carapaz, Thomas, even Porte who is at 2 minutes will most likely take over in GC (maybe not Thomas, but Thomas has more podium pedigree).

That is, ignoring the fact that Mas risks to loose his temper and gets DSQ'd for misbehaviour.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1410974374165897219

View: https://twitter.com/soydiegoayus/status/1410974374165897219?s=20

What has Uran shown since 2018 that was better than Mas's results last year?

 

[Leinster]

i think everytime you get attacked close to the mountain or hill top, its probably better to not respond right away because realistically it way harder to gain time downhill than uphill, also downhill chase is easier for more riders to join...carapaz should have attacked at the foot of the final climb, thats where a response from pogacar would have been 100% required, when he attacked i told my father "watch him do a lot of work for 15 seconds" - and even that proved to be too optimistic

On the contrary, in terms of opening a gap, it's always been in the textbook to attack just before a summit; you gain a 10-20m gap over the top, but suddenly as you pick up speed that grows to a 50-100m gap and people sit and watch you. That way when you do start the flat/uphill section after the descent, you don't have someone in your wheel. See; Richmond 2015 for reference.

If it had just been Carapaz against Pogacar and a disinterested rest-of-the-peloton, it might have worked; he (and Ineos) is going to get precious few chances like that to get separation on Pogacar, and I suspect he'll jump onto attacks a bit quicker as the numbers get whittled down in the high mountains.

 

[saganftw]

And we all assumed Bernal was untouchable in the Giro, until he started cracking. Unfortunately, no team challenged him and put the hurt on before he did, because they might have benefited from it in the end. People always assume every great champ is untouchable, until he becomes touchable.

then im sure you are delighted by movistar tactics because by chasing down carapaz they inevitably had to put some hurt on pogacar too

good on them for trying

 

[saganftw]

On the contrary, in terms of opening a gap, it's always been in the textbook to attack just before a summit; you gain a 10-20m gap over the top, but suddenly as you pick up speed that grows to a 50-100m gap and people sit and watch you. That way when you do start the flat/uphill section after the descent, you don't have someone in your wheel. See; Richmond 2015 for reference.

If it had just been Carapaz against Pogacar and a disinterested rest-of-the-peloton, it might have worked; he (and Ineos) is going to get precious few chances like that to get separation on Pogacar, and I suspect he'll jump onto attacks a bit quicker as the numbers get whittled down in the high mountains.

but the precise problem is that its not just carapaz and pogacar, its carapaz and a bunch of other guys hence getting rid of those other guys while also attacking your target would killing two birds with one stone...he threw a rock at only one bird and missed anyway

 

[Anderis]

Such a shame that teams like Movistar & EF with zero ambition to actually hit the top step of the podium are going to be so clearly influential in nullifying the GC race.

It amazes me that people still think the job of all the teams is to make the main favourite lose instead of riding their own race.

You let Carapaz gain time, you then need to count on both Carapaz and Pogacar having a bad day if you want to win the race, instead of Pogacar only.

 

[Volderke]

Carapaz is better, but Id take Mas over any of these guys in a 3 weeks bike race considering the circumstances right now with Thomas crashiing/declining and Richie being far down the GC. Wouldn't write them off off course. Uran also looks good as well, but I think Mas is a tad better in the high mountains - especially the 3rd week.

Also, lets wait with the bashing until we know what happened. Guessing it relates to the crash, maybe Kwito caused it and Valverde and Mas went to speak to him and ask whats up.

I probably missed this (I couldn't watch the whole finale), but what crash and who was involved?

What has Uran shown since 2018 that was better than Mas's results last year?

He was promising in Suisse. Not much, I know, but then again, he has more podium pedigree.
And I quote someone who should know to back up my argument that Mas is not even top 5 when considering podium candidates (as I totally forgot Vingegaard):

How isn't Vingegaard a podium contender? Especially if it wasn't him, but Van Aert who had waited after Roglic's crash.

He is currently the 3rd favourite to win the whole thing after Pogi and Carapaz, according to the bookies. The next in line are Alaphilippe, Uran and Thomas.

Maybe I am underestimating Mas, and if he keeps improving (after his quick rise to the top and after that, some mixed results), he could well be a podium candidate. I'll eat my words when that happens, but I just don't see him climb with Carapaz / Pogacar and I always see someone else before Mas. for the 3rd step on the podium.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The crash on stage 3 where Thomas went down, but he was reportedly also in trouble on the steep climb today and his TT was subpar, so I dont think we should expect that much from him

 

[perico]

Mas hasn't shown too much podium pedigree after his first Vuelta.

He finished Top 5 in both GTs last year after less than ideal prep and still is young. He may not be as young as Pogacar, but he’s still 5 years younger than GT when he started showing podium potential. Mas’ physiological numbers are rumored to be in GT winning territory, and he was arguably the most successful u23 rider his final year. He hasn’t set the world on fire yet, and his TT has regressed since joining Movistar, but it’s way too early to write off his potential.

 

[Big Doopie]

pog did no work today.

ominous.

 

[saganftw]

It amazes me that people still think the job of all the teams is to make the main favourite lose instead of riding their own race.

You let Carapaz gain time, you then need to count on both Carapaz and Pogacar having a bad day if you want to win the race, instead of Pogacar only.

this is not a new phenomenon, during sky reign if somebody "helped" it was called out just as it is now

realistically apart from Ineos, JV and UAE other teams world is not revolving around Pogacar, they do they own thing, they might even have incentives for some other lowly results like top 10s and such

 

[Rackham]

Carapaz blew some cartridges today for no result. Considering how violent & impressive his attack was, that's got to frustrate them.

He's 1:40 down on Pogacar & he can't compete in TT, whilst he's also not proven to be a better climber either. The only "hope" they have is their team isolating Pogacar, but really, Pogacar need only follow Carapaz & ignore Thomas & Porte. Meanwhile, the top GC guy in the race (which is Pogacar of course) always traditionally benefits from other teams behind his closest rivals fighting for position in the top 5 (especially for stage wins & overall podium). So even if Ineos isolate Pogacar, you can see Movistar & EF do his work for him. That's not unusual in cycling & we saw that today.

So unless there's a crash or crosswind or mechanical (+ everyone allying against UAE), Pogacar is unattainable. I mean his team had a "bad day" today & lost nothing. That says everything.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

this is not a new phenomenon, during sky reign if somebody "helped" it was called out just as it is now

realistically apart from Ineos, JV and UAE other teams world is not revolving around Pogacar, they do they own thing, they might even have incentives for some other lowly results like top 10s and such

Well, thanks in part to Movistar, you can cross JV off that list.

Regarding the convo with Mas and Kwiatkowski. My guess is that MK told Valverde that he's tired and plans to abandon. Mas then heard about it and talked MK into staying in the race.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

pog did no work today.

ominous.

a repeat of last year.

 

[roundabout]

It amazes me that people still think the job of all the teams is to make the main favourite lose instead of riding their own race.

You let Carapaz gain time, you then need to count on both Carapaz and Pogacar having a bad day if you want to win the race, instead of Pogacar only.

Or you take advantage of their battle in stages like this by having them ride against each other.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It amazes me that people still think the job of all the teams is to make the main favourite lose instead of riding their own race.

You let Carapaz gain time, you then need to count on both Carapaz and Pogacar having a bad day if you want to win the race, instead of Pogacar only.

Unfortunately logic is not always your friend....

 

[Ranagazoo]

pog did no work today.

ominous.

But his team did, and all but Majka were dropped when there were still like 70 riders in the peloton. Doesn't look like they'll have much control in the mountains

 

[perico]

I probably missed this (I couldn't watch the whole finale), but what crash and who was involved?

He was promising in Suisse. Not much, I know, but then again, he has more podium pedigree.
And I quote someone who should know to back up my argument that Mas is not even top 5 when considering podium candidates (as I totally forgot Vingegaard)

Maybe I am underestimating Mas, and if he keeps improving (after his quick rise to the top and after that, some mixed results), he could well be a podium candidate. I'll eat my words when that happens, but I just don't see him climb with Carapaz / Pogacar and I always see someone else before Mas. for the 3rd step on the podium.

Richie Porte podiumed last year. Before that, did he have more “podium pedigree” than Mas in GTs? Mas has ridden 5 GTs and finished Top 5 in 3 of them with 1 podium. His first was a learning ride his first year as a pro.

He has finished ahead of Uran in at least 2 of them when they were both targeting GC, Uran has finished ahead of Mas 1 time, in Mas’s 1st TdF- in which a lot of younger riders are overwhelmed unless you are a Pogacar/Ullrich type and ready instantly. Even Andy Schleck finished well down on GC his first TDF.

So that leaves 3 out of 4 GTs where Mas has finished in the Top 5.

He wasn't the one putting his hands on another rider

Kwiatkowski allegedly caused Mas to crash at the feed zone.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I see the wazzup commercial has finally made it to Slovenia.

 

[Pantani_lives]

I think the team classification should be abolished. Only the Spanish team(s) care for it, and it so often has a negative impact on the race. Carapaz being chased by his former teammates was painful to watch. UAE couldn't have caught him.

Carapaz looks like Pog's main challenger now, but today was a wasted effort, just before the Alpine stages.

 

[tobydawq]

Sepp Kuss 84th +13'18.

I keep saying it, but the evidence keeps on backing me up: racing is improved by the removal of Sepp Kuss from it.

 

[Leinster]

But his team did, and all but Majka were dropped when there were still like 70 riders in the peloton. Doesn't look like they'll have much control in the mountains

Were they dropped, or were they told "Me and Rafal have got this. Take the rest of today off."

If the former, Pog is in trouble in the mountains. If the latter...

 

[Carols]

Why the heck should Movi or any other team not race just because Carapaz is attacking? A contender attacking, a contender dropping and Pogi isolated is a Reason to Ride. Had they dropped Pogi many would be complimenting them instead of all this ridiculous hate.