Tour de France Tour de France 2022: Stage 4 (Dunkerque – Calais, 171.5k)

[Valv.Piti]

Wiggins was ludicrous in 2009, sure, but at least you could wave things away slightly by accepting he never focused on the road (he rode it but was always a track specialist), and that it wasn't too far removed from an era when the GC guys were bigger, TT-focused machines than they tend to be nowadays, until the ridiculous transformation, whereas Thomas was a road rider all along, with a decade of us knowing what his skillset was, and then he changed it completely at 29. Yes, he was no mug uphill, winning the Bayern Rundfahrt on one of its only half-decent routes, but he was also never even remotely a 'climber' until 2015. Geraint Thomas' rider type pre-transformation was more like van Aert's than Wiggins making him a more viable comparison, and Geraint Thomas was like what happens if George Hincapie had actually gone on to lead Discovery Channel after Armstrong's retirement... and won the Tour de France.

Geraint Thomas IS George Hincapie, their trajectories and rider types are strikingly similar, only he didn't just win one ridiculous mountain stage, he won two ridiculous mountain stages back to back while looking physiologically like he'd eaten most of the climbers he was dropping. And then he won the Tour de France.

Thats fair, but I was still more surprised when Wiggins all of a sudden could climb after being absolutely horrendous in mountains pre 2008. I will give you Thomas' Tour-win was more ridiculous than Wiggo's since Wiggo obviously was limited in the mountains and all in all 2012 was a Tour were everything aligned perfectly for him. Absolutely perfectly, and no one was really surprised since he got handed that victory on a silver platter with a absolutely dominating team, best imaginable route, infinite MIAS (most notably Contador), Schlecks and Evans sudden steep declines, Froome not being THAT Froome yet etc etc.

 

[gregrowlerson]

These conversations are heavily biased by the names of the riders in question.

Replace Wout van Aert with Rafal Majka & Jonas Vingegaard with Tadej Pogacar & the entire internet burns down with WTF lololz if the same scenario happens with UAE.

The only reason the argument is made against waiting for Jonas is because WvA is a bigger star. That's it. Every other team fighting for GC would be expected to play the GC card if the same opportunity presents itself.

Majka would be next to no chance to hold off the peloton for 10kms, even if the chase was disorganised. WVA is one of a select group of riders who have a realistic chance to win the stage in that situation.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Wiggins was ludicrous in 2009, sure, but at least you could wave things away slightly by accepting he never focused on the road (he rode it but was always a track specialist), and that it wasn't too far removed from an era when the GC guys were bigger, TT-focused machines than they tend to be nowadays, until the ridiculous transformation, whereas Thomas was a road rider all along, with a decade of us knowing what his skillset was, and then he changed it completely at 29. Yes, he was no mug uphill, winning the Bayern Rundfahrt on one of its only half-decent routes, but he was also never even remotely a 'climber' until 2015. Geraint Thomas' rider type pre-transformation was more like van Aert's than Wiggins making him a more viable comparison, and Geraint Thomas was like what happens if George Hincapie had actually gone on to lead Discovery Channel after Armstrong's retirement... and won the Tour de France.

Geraint Thomas IS George Hincapie, their trajectories and rider types are strikingly similar, only he didn't just win one ridiculous mountain stage, he won two ridiculous mountain stages back to back while looking physiologically like he'd eaten most of the climbers he was dropping. And then he won the Tour de France.

Maybe pre 2003 and 2015 Hincapie and Thomas were similar riders, but I don't see much similarities to what they showed from 03-05 and 15-17 (to suggest that Hincapie winning the 06 Tour would be no more surprising than Thomas winning in 18). George at best was Lance's Jens Voight....he could lead into the final climb at high pace, but then he'd be done within a km, and Lance's Spanish climbers would take over. Geraint's climbing level from 15-17 was much higher than that. In what world did George Hincapie ever threaten to climb with the best, let alone do so? When was Hincapie even sitting top 10 in GC deep into the Tour (let alone 4th)? George's Tour high mountain stage victory was from a breakaway; that doesn't compare at all to Thomas matching pedal strokes with those that mattered on PDB.

 

[Red Rick]

Really harsh view.
If we follow your point of view why would anyone bring a sprinter to the tour? Lotto Soudal, QS, Bike exchange -> all silly teams going for secondary wins, right?

No, Jumbo and UAE are the only teams with big TdF contenders

Like if hes on UAE and drops Pogacar while Rog is behind he 100% gets told to wait

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Geraint's climbing level from 15-17 was much higher than that. In what world did George Hincapie ever threaten to climb with the best, let alone do so? When was Hincapie even sitting top 10 in GC deep into the Tour (let alone 4th)? George's Tour high mountain stage victory was from a breakaway; that doesn't compare at all to Thomas matching pedal strokes with those that mattered on PDB.

And that is why Geraint Thomas is more ridiculous than Big Jawge.

Wout van Aert is not a facsimile for Geraint Thomas. Christophe Laporte is the facsimile for Geraint Thomas. He's the right age and skillset. If Laporte starts dropping people left right and centre 3/4 the way up the Col du Granon and Alpe d'Huez... that is what Geraint Thomas became in 2015.