Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 14: Annemasse - Morzine, 151.8k

[Samamba]

42‘59“

Going to be close for some then I think.

 

[Boehmand]

That’s all we’ve heard on every stage that went up. It’s made for Vinge, especially if it’s ridden hard and hot.

Not by me, I viewed it as pretty even, and predicted a gap below 10 seconds on the line.

The Courchevel stage is the only one - the entire Tour - I view as "made for Vingegaard".

 

[bill1109]

How is it "made for Vingegaard"?

The polemic was that the Alps were Vingo terrain. Where pog was weak. And it was hot. Also a supposed Pog weakness.according to forum DS

 

[RobertCrawley]

The polemic was that the Alps were Vingo terrain. Where pog was weak. And it was hot. Also a supposed Pog weakness.

Jonas has always said these mountains suit him better. That's the polemic.

 

[Grayguard]

Of course not but you could let the break go and the break takes the stage and riding of course hard but not super hard like Jumbo did today. In my opinion the effort doesn't match the outcome. Both teams should ask themselve should we do the same again?

Jumbo obviously thought they could break Poga if the stage was hard enough.
It didn't work out, but I for one, am happy they tried - it's makes the race more entertaining.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He was still like 15-20 seconds down at the time of the moto-block.

Rodriquez was not, he was 35 seconds down when Pog attacked and then both went into a standstill again before Vinge sprinted away. Rodriquez would have needed a crazy descent with Pog and Vinge going slower for him to catch back up.

 

[Boehmand]

The polemic was that the Alps were Vingo terrain. Where pog was weak. And it was hot. Also a supposed Pog weakness.

First of all it wasn't "very" hot today, it was like 28-30 C.

Secondly where Vingegaard has an advantage on Pogacar in the Alps is at altitude - we never got above 1690 metres today.

 

[Danskebjerge]

LOL @ "allegedly". THIS WAS SHOWN ON TELEVISION.

You really think they did it on purpose?

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Going to be close for some then I think.

Anyone in trouble today wouldn't survive the Loze stage anyway.

 

[jaylew]

I'm not a big fan of either rider, I like them both just fine as they are entertaining but Pogacar really has only himself to blame in losing a second today. Jonas is looking at Pog more than he is where he is going. When Pogacar goes by it wasn't even a hard attack, it was just an acceleration, presumably so he could lead the sprint from the front knowing he was more explosive and he gets no gap.

Pog is then on the front and really is in the same position he'd have been in without the moto and should have started the sprint from the front like he had been about to do. He almost certainly would have gotten the bonus seconds if he had just started his sprint from the front once it cleared out a bit the same as he likely would have if the motos had been out of the way. Instead, he does the opposite of JV and doesn't pay attention to him. As I was watching it live I even thought JV might take the seconds, since he could see that Pog wasn't paying enough attention.

And as others have mentioned, he should have told Adam to attack and go for the 6 secs in the end so Pog could nab the 4 and keep JV from getting any.

The motos in the way was definitely a problem but it didn't prevent Pog from getting those seconds. He just had a bit of brain lock the rest of that stage (also letting Rodriguez go) which while understandable is fairly inexcusable given the circumstances and stakes.

 

[Poursuivant]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1680242366681063424

Lost crucial seconds there

 

[SHAD0W93]

No harder than Tadej. They ride for safe position and frequently finish within touching distance. The pack opens up and 2-5 second gaps are everywhere so, sure; he does ride hard and needs to do that.

The only difference is Vinge rides at the front with minimal wind protection for 4-6 kms. Pog hasnt been doing that, he’s been around his team. Just because Vinge sits up to finish with Pog in the last KM doesn’t mean they’ve don’t the same amount of work when he’s been at the front for 4-6.

 

[Samamba]

Everyone in on time, especially fair play to Petit!

 

[VorstM]

Going to be close for some then I think.

If any of the big 2 rode all out on JP it couldve been a massacre.

 

[Boehmand]

You really think they did it on purpose?

I don't think you understand what "allegedly" means

 

[tobydawq]

Also, what a momentum Spain have gotten. Didn't win a stage for 5 years, now they won 3 in 5 days with 3 different riders...

 

[Sciatic]

All that work by Jumbo to gain 1 sec and third on the stage. First UAE and now Jumbo are wasting their energy for what?

Yes, they would definitely strategize differently if they could use a crystal ball to see the outcome before setting it in motion. But they seem to lack that in their equipment.

 

[jono]

The polemic was that the Alps were Vingo terrain. Where pog was weak. And it was hot. Also a supposed Pog weakness.

There's been a certain amount of confident speculating about where Pog was weaker/Vingegaard stronger:

• attritional multi-mountain stages
• high altitude climbs
• hard-paced stages/stronger team
• hot weather
• third week of a tour

Vingegaard gained an advantage due to team strength on stage 5 (also the first real test for Pogacar in months so maybe an element of coming in undercooked after the injury).

The remaining "advantages" have yet to really play out in his favour.

 

[bill1109]

Jonas was right on his wheel. There is nothing to suggest that Tadej's move would 've amounted to a convenient leadout so we should just let this go. The fact that rabid fans didn't knock one of them down is of more concern.

Wish there were more stages where cretin fans were not allowed. Old days had more respectful people. Nowadays the selfie seekers make things too risky. Cycling needs to adapt to the times. Deny the fans in areas crucial to the race.

 

[tobydawq]

I don't think you understand what "allegedly" means

Haha, that would explain a lot

 

[RobertCrawley]

You really think they did it on purpose?

Perino talked to Christian VdV's moto driver, who talked to the moto at the front.

The motos who blocked Pogi were blocked by the crowd and could not move ahead. It sounds like this climb really should have been roped off at the least.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Listening to the NBC commentators natter on about the moto interference and the possibility that some dramatic gap "could" have occurred...."but we'll never know".
Tadej loves to attack into conjested areas as a tactical advantage. Didn't work and Jonas was right on his wheel today rather than fighting around Kuss and the UAE clutter like he did yesterday.

Even if a gap didn’t occur, do you really think Vinge is coming past Pog for the first time? Pog easily closed Vinge’s attack after they both looked like they weren’t going for the point.

 

[jaylew]

Vinge had a massive assist. Fact.

What assist did he have exactly? I didn't see one. I just saw a Pog being inattentive.

 

[Boehmand]

Wish there were more stages where cretin fans were not allowed. Old days had more respectful people. Nowadays the selfie seekers make things too risky. Cycling needs to adapt to the times. Deny the fans in areas crucial to the race.

In the "old days", a cycling fan punched Hinault in the liver on a climb, so he lost the Tour

 

[topt]

First of all it wasn't "very" hot today, it was like 28-30 C.

Secondly where Vingegaard has an advantage on Pogacar in the Alps is at altitude - we never got above 1690 metres today.

better tell Jumbo that cause its sure looked to me they were riding all day for Vine.