Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 15: Les Gets - Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc, 179.0k

[tobydawq]

I hope they go back to no more bonus seconds in the Tour.

We still saw plenty of GC riders going for stage victories between 2008 and 2014, but none of this stupid play for bonuses. Just going hard to the line.

I hope they stay.

 

[Lequack]

More of this

 

[Netserk]

I hope they stay.

How did the Tour editions without them suffer from the lack of them?

 

[Lequack]

In the past didn't they have like 1 minute bonus to the winner, and 30 seconds for 2nd place? The past as in 1960s and such.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I wonder if Jumbo at some point start putting guys like Wout in the break just to pull them away in order for Pog not to get bonis. UAEs controlling has been very meh and I doubt that Vingegaard can do anything against Pog on the final climb as it stands right now.

Hindley's quotes from the finish today sadly sound like he's properly hurt. I hope he can hang on otherwise we might not get a good battle for the podium in the last week (I don't see Yates in it as he will have to sacrifice something for Pog one way or the other). Outside of these 3, the gaps are already massive.

 

[SHAD0W93]

In the past didn't they have like 1 minute bonus to the winner, and 30 seconds for 2nd place? The past as in 1960s and such.

I think so, then it we like 20 seconds for the winner in the early 2000s.

 

[D. Pecher]

I wonder if Jumbo at some point start putting guys like Wout in the break just to pull them away in order for Pog not to get bonis. UAEs controlling has been very meh and I doubt that Vingegaard can do anything against Pog on the final climb as it stands right now.

Hindley's quotes from the finish today sadly sound like he's properly hurt. I hope he can hang on otherwise we might not get a good battle for the podium in the last week (I don't see Yates in it as he will have to sacrifice something for Pog one way or the other). Outside of these 3, the gaps are already massive.

They just need to let a break go. I see no rational reason for why they shelled every attempt today. Unless there's someone in there who's only a few minutes behind, chasing them down out of what looks like pointless spite like they did today seems silly to me.

 

[tobydawq]

How did the Tour editions without them suffer from the lack of them?

There was no fun play for bonuses. Not much incentive to reel attackers in.

 

[Netserk]

There was no fun play for bonuses. Not much incentive to reel attackers in.

So you think the breakaways won more often in those Tour editions?

 

[Tonton]

Pinot will win this bike race: he has been bluffing all along, it's in the bag my friends. In the bag.

The break will Take it, I'm curious to see the fight between 1-2 and 3-4, and if and how much they will interfere with each other. Jai needs to try something in the final 4 km of the final climb. His podium bid is on the line. And can Tadej Pogacar take yellow? The dude will try, as always, there will be a show.

 

[D. Pecher]

So you think the breakaways won more often in those Tour editions?

Yes. In fact in former days it was not uncommon that breakaways were given so much leeway that people like Pascal Herve or Thomas Voeckler suddly found themselves in the yellow jersey. And that tour where Voeckler busted his erse to defend it against all odds is still a vivid memory while recent editions pretty much fell off the stack as they were not exactly exciting apart from the odd stage or two, It's way too controlled these days by one or two teams who leave literally nothing to chance. Back in the day even minnows had their chance at 15 minutes of fame on days when the big dogs couldn't be bothered.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So you think the breakaways won more often in those Tour editions?

Depends on your definition of breakaway.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

There was no fun play for bonuses. Not much incentive to reel attackers in.

...yet only 2 of the 5 main mountain days went to the early break in 2014, 2 out of 5 in 2013, 2 of 4 in 2012, 0 out of 4 in 2011, 3 out of 5 in 2010, 2 out of 4 in 2009 and 2 out of 4 in 2008. That comes to 13 out of 31 stages, or 41.9%.

The years since then: 2 out of 5 in 2015 (and of the other 3, Nibali and Pinot went early without drawing a reaction from the main GC contenders which I haven't counted for the break), 4 out of 6 in 2016, 2 out of 6 in 2017 (I've counted Barguil's first stage win here), 1 out of 5 in 2018, 4 out of 6 in 2019 (counting the Tignes stage as a win for the GC group because it would certainly have been one had the stage finished), 3 out of 6 in 2020, 3 out of 5 in 2021, 2 out of 6 in 2022 and so far 3 out of 5 this year (counting Hindley for the breakaway because that's where he won from). That comes to 24 out of 50, or 48% - more than in the 2008-14 period. You could argue that the increase in the number of legitimate mountain days (and the decrease in their difficulty) plays a role here, but in any case there is no evidence addition of bonus seconds incentivizes GC riders to go for stages - if anything, to the contrary.

 

[saunaking]

I seem to remember that Vinokourov once overtook someone for third in GC on the last day by taking out the only bonus sprint on the way to Paris.

Well, yeah, but that’s Vino we’re talking about.
Him, Merckx and Chuck Norris are the only ones capable of such feats

 

[saunaking]

I hope they go back to no more bonus seconds in the Tour.

We still saw plenty of GC riders going for stage victories between 2008 and 2014, but none of this stupid play for bonuses. Just going hard to the line.

Bonus seconds are fine for the stage, just not these stupid hilltop ones late in the stage. It’s too much.

 

[D. Pecher]

Indeed. The bonus second on the summit were a daft idea, especially if it isn't fenced off and you have drunktards running about on the road with their erse hanging out of their britches.

 

[Andy schleck]

agreed.

i wonder if they are now second-guessing their off-season declaration that they did not need Rog because they knew how to bet Pog with just Vingo.

Vingegaard is still the yellow jersey. Let's not make hasty assumptions. In the end of the tour, we can conclude if they needed roglic or not in the tour.

 

[Elos Anjos]

More of this

Picture likely taken by the photographer on board the moto that blocked Pogi taking 5s.

 

[jaylew]

I think the ITT will decide it and that would put Pogacar at an advantage in my book. That was when he completely demolished Roglic for his first tour win.

It would be a shame if it came down to the TT imo but it's definitely a possibility. Not sure who I'd back in that case since they've been fairly even. Pog has a slight edge overall but Jonas has won both 3rd week Tour TTs.

 

[Andy schleck]

I think the ITT will decide it and that would put Pogacar at an advantage in my book. That was when he completely demolished Roglic for his first tour win.

I think col de la loze will decide everything. Altitude, fatigue after almost 3 weeks of competition, hard stage, hard climb with almost 28 km, and that last 5 km of la loze with some places with 24%, will make differences between the two. The TT is short, and it will not make big differences.

 

[houtdffan]

This set-up, losing only small time in the mountains, would have been perfect for Evenepoel who could have gained massive time in the TT.

A shame he didn't elect to participate.

This pathetic TT? Evenepoel would have gained 25 seconds at most. It simply isn't long enough or flat enough

 

[movingtarget]

This pathetic TT? Evenepoel would have gained 25 seconds at most. It simply isn't long enough or flat enough

I think TTs have been degraded too much in grand tours. I understand that they are trying to level the playing field for the non TT GC riders but I think they have gone too far in that direction. Longer mountain stages are also out of fashion. as are prologues. Now instead of prologues they have short short TTs. As for the TTT, i don't miss those at all.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I think whoever puts in the biggest digs here will lose the time in the time trial, even with the rest day. They’ve been hiding hard every stage and attacking each other, time is going to start leaking.

 

[RobertCrawley]

What is the plural of Nostradamus?

 

[SHAD0W93]

What is the plural of Nostradamus?

Nostradamueses, though if it was like cactus I’d think nostradami.