Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 13: Agen > Pau, 165.3 km

[Samamba]

Doesn't look like that to me. It looks like he gave the guy a shoulder jab from behind and sent him hard to the tarmac.

You do realize that if Van Gils doest put his shoulder Capiot just keeps going left cause he doesn't realize he's there and we have an even bigger crash?

People always think shoulder barges are just pure violent when they are more often than not to make sure they actually don't crash.

 

[RobertCrawley]

You do realize that if Van Gils doest put his shoulder Capiot just keeps going left cause he doesn't realize he's there and we have an even bigger crash?

He could squeeze those thingies on his handlebars that slow him down.

 

[Sciatic]

Far too narrow for an uphill sprint at the Tour.

Sounds reasonable—I couldn’t remember if there was a wider road than the walking path under the funicular.

 

[red_flanders]

If he doesn't put his shoulder Van Gils is over the barriers and we have a Jakobsen case. Insanity to blame this on Van Gils. Yes I'm biased but come one guys. He comes with way more speed sees a gap on the left, goes for it and Capiot just keeps going to the left while looking behind in this right side...

The shoulder seems quite a natural reaction to me. You don't protect yourself like that and you're taken out.

 

[Samamba]

He could squeeze those thingies on his handlebars that slow him down.

Yeah you've definitely never ever ride a race bike at 70km/u if you think fully hitting the break there is a smart thing to do lmao

 

[Sciatic]

You do realize that if Van Gils doest put his shoulder Capiot just keeps going left cause he doesn't realize he's there and we have an even bigger crash?

People always think shoulder barges are just pure violent when they are more often than not to make sure they actually don't crash.

I believe Capiot had already stopped his drift, thoughVan Gills probably couldn’t anticipate that.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Fighting for position in 10th-15th wheel is far more dangerous than hanging back like Vingegaard did. With the current rule-set, there are no time splits to worry about, only staying on your wheels.

Exactly, and I don't think it came from UAE car. On previous sprint stages I took note that Pogi saving some enery within 3k mark just like Vinge did today.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Yeah you've definitely never ever ride a race bike at 70km/u if you think fully hitting the break there is a smart thing to do lmao

The Arkea guy's work was done. He went near the rails and drifted back. Van Gils should see that. Also, his guy had no chance to even get a whiff of the finish line. It looked like Van Gils shouldered him out of frustration.

No, I've never sprinted at 70km/h. Neither have you.

 

[Samamba]

I believe Capiot had already stopped his drift, thoughVan Gills probably couldn’t anticipate that.

He hasn't, just watched it again 10 times. He stops his drift, looks behind and unwillingly starts drifting again. Van Gils is already besides him when he realizes they're gonna collide so he puts out his shoulder which is a normal reflex there to not you know, lose his face like Jakobsen. It sucks for Capiot, he isn't doing it on purpose, he's completely empty and is trying to find a safe way to the back and probably thinks his left side is free cause he already looked earlier. The problem is that the speed difference is so big there he couldn't see Van Gils coming.

 

[ManicJack]

I believe Capiot had already stopped his drift, thoughVan Gills probably couldn’t anticipate that.

Making the shoulder throw even more egregious.

 

[jaylew]

I've watched it a few more times at full speed and slo-mo and there are basically 2 bike width "lanes" to the left of Capiot when he looks back. He obviously doesn't see Van Gils when he pulls off and goes one "lane" to the left. There's still room for Van Gils to get through so he continues forward but as Capiot looks to his right (instead of left again) he moves even more to the left, into the "lane" next to the barriers. I'm not certain Van Gils could have stopped in time and there would have probably been a wreck even if he had. I guess maybe he should have anticipated that Capiot might continue to drift left all the way to the barriers but I think he just thought/hoped he wouldn't. I'm not sure I would penalize either.

 

[kingjr]

Yeah you've definitely never ever ride a race bike at 70km/u if you think fully hitting the break there is a smart thing to do lmao

He didn't need to fully hit the break, just reduce his speed to the same as Capiot, and there was time enough to do so gradually. He very deliberately took the risk, knowing that if he didn't the stage would probably be lost. If he applies something called "vorausschauendes Fahren" (lit. "driving with foresight" in German), this crash never happens.

 

[Samamba]

The Arkea guy's work was done. He went near the rails and drifted back. Van Gils should see that. Also, his guy had no chance to even get a whiff of the finish line. It looked like Van Gils shouldered him out of frustration.

No, I've never sprinted at 70km/h. Neither have you.

I actually have participated in bunch sprints, not at 70km/u that's true, but anyways.

Van Gils was doing a leadout for De Lie, not sure what you're even trying to say. Just look at the overhead again. There's a pretty big gap on the left of Capiot, who stops for a second and then starts drifting to the left again. It's absolutely normal Van Gils goes for that gap. Plenty of room. Sure maybe the shoulder thing is a bit violent but is just a normal reflex to make sure you yourself don't crash into the barriers.

 

[jaylew]

He hasn't, just watched it again 10 times. He stops his drift, looks behind and unwillingly starts drifting again. Van Gils is already besides him when he realizes they're gonna collide so he puts out his shoulder which is a normal reflex there to not you know, lose his face like Jakobsen. It sucks for Capiot, he isn't doing it on purpose, he's completely empty and is trying to find a safe way to the back and probably thinks his left side is free cause he already looked earlier. The problem is that the speed difference is so big there he couldn't see Van Gils coming.

Exactly this, he drifts twice

 

[Samamba]

He didn't need to fully hit the break, just reduce his speed to the same as Capiot, and there was time enough to do so gradually. He very deliberately took the risk, knowing that if he didn't the stage would probably be lost.

There's like 4 guys in his wheel going the same speed. He can't gradually slow down. The moment he realizes they're gonna collide is like 1s before they collide. Before that he goes in a gap that's pretty big. Capiot starts drifting left again in the end cause he doesn't realize there's riders coming there. that's the problem. If he doesn't everyone goes through.

 

[Netserk]

Van Gils's reaction aside, it's incredibly dangerous to drift back like that so riders can't pass you (safely) on both sides. Once he was clear of the main group, he should have drifted back without looking over his shoulders, but instead make sure that he keeps his lane and goes straight.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Van Gils's reaction aside, it's incredibly dangerous to drift back like that so riders can't pass you (safely) on both sides.

Guys drifting back is part of the danger/excitement of the final sprint. Great sprinters and leadout men have to negotiate them as well.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

They could finish like in 2006.

No longer possible since they remodelled Place Gramont. They could come from Rue Marca instead but that's the least convenient place to enter Place Verdun.

 

[kingjr]

There's like 4 guys in his wheel going the same speed. He can't gradually slow down. The moment he realizes they're gonna collide is like 1s before they collide. Before that he goes in a gap that's pretty big. Capiot starts drifting left again in the end cause he doesn't realize there's riders coming there. that's the problem. If he doesn't everyone goes through.

And that's exactly what van Gils has to anticipate.

 

[RobertCrawley]

I actually have participated in bunch sprints, not at 70km/u that's true, but anyways.

Van Gils was doing a leadout for De Lie, not sure what you're even trying to say. Just look at the overhead again. There's a pretty big gap on the left of Capiot, who stops for a second and then starts drifting to the left again. It's absolutely normal Van Gils goes for that gap. Plenty of room. Sure maybe the shoulder thing is a bit violent but is just a normal reflex to make sure you yourself don't crash into the barriers.

So then you know there's a lot of yelling in the bunch sprint telling guys that you're coming on the left. No need for the hard shoulder to send a guy hard to the ground.

 

[ManicJack]

And that's exactly what van Gils has to anticipate.

Not according to all the experienced bunch sprinters on this forum 🙄

 

[Eyeballs Out]

To me, both Van Gils and Capiot make mistakes.

Van Gils is doing a leadout but he's not really a leadout guy so perhaps understandable for him. His mistake is going for a closing gap, which might be worth the risk for a sprinter but isn't for him - De Lie probably gets blocked even if he himself squeezes through. Because Van Gils is low and Capiot has sat up his shoulder makes contact with Capiot's elbow which is why he falls dramatically to the left rather than getting knocked to the right.

Capiot looks left, must see Van Gils coming on that side yet then drifts that way. The only way I can explain that is if he's deliberately trying to block the path in which case it's hard to have much sympathy. Just keep your line!

 

[staubsauger]

You can't ride through a gap, when a leadout man is about to drop off. Simply because the gap won't be there anymore. Van Gils simply knocks over Capiot.

It's an error, but certainly not enough to throw him out of the race.

 

[ingsve]

They had already lost more time than they wanted most likely but it was probably not in their plan for Enric Mas and Louis Meintjes to lose over 13 minutes on a stage like this.

 

[red_flanders]

Van Gils's reaction aside, it's incredibly dangerous to drift back like that so riders can't pass you (safely) on both sides. Once he was clear of the main group, he should have drifted back without looking over his shoulders, but instead make sure that he keeps his lane and goes straight.

Exactly. What's the first thing and the most frequent thing you hear riding in a pack?

"Hold your line!!!"