Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 4: Pinerolo > Valloire, 139.6 km

[Berniece]

you actually think Remco wont lose a lot of time on some climbs later, good for you

What's the excuse for yesterday then?

 

[topt]

What's the excuse for yesterday then?

you know he doesnt have to lose time on every climb.... Shame we cant bet on this

 

[topt]

fake pace + not wanting set tempo; Almeida was yelling at him

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808202645770776978

View: https://x.com/i/status/1808202645770776978

 

[Berniece]

you know he doesnt have to lose time on every climb.... Shame we cant bet on this

You can. I mean we can't against each other, but feel free to place a bet online saying Evenepoel won't finish top 5, or even top 10 and share an image of it.

 

[Miha81]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808202645770776978

View: https://x.com/i/status/1808202645770776978

Nothing to write home about. Ayuso just wanted Pogi to take his turn

 

[topt]

You can. I mean we can't against each other, but feel free to place a bet online saying Evenepoel won't finish top 5, or even top 10 and share an image of it.

didnt find it, best i can do is Carlos Rodriguez will be infront of him for white jersey, is that ok

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Ayuso probably thinks he can climb with Pogi and Jonas. Hell even drop them if he's given the chance. UAE should have taken McNulty over him. Let Ayuso have the Vuelta. He's clearly good enough to win it.

 

[topt]

Nothing to write home about. Ayuso just wanted Pogi to take his turn

I read Pog was in front for 2min on climb Ayuso for 4, so not so far from truth

 

[staubsauger]

Ayuso probably thinks he can climb with Pogi and Jonas. Hell even drop them if he's given the chance. UAE should have taken McNulty over him. Let Ayuso have the Vuelta. He's clearly good enough to win it.

This basically. If Ayuso focuses on the 2024 Vuelta a Espana with a full buildup he's a likely overall winner. Why is he even in France instead? Asking for problems.

Working for Pogacar from the Pyrenees on, probably means Ayuso pulls Pogacar & Vingegaard away from Evenepoel. At least that's the theoretical plan.

 

[svit]

What are you on about? No it doesn't. Both Almeida, Ayuso and Landa could have ended Roglic' Tour yesterday. If he drops there, its over. He looked miserable and should be very, very, VERY happy by just being 1.14 down based on his legs. Roglic is scraping by, hoping for a miracle, but he's 34 and his consistently high top level is gone.

The most realistic scenario is Roglic ending somewhere between 4-8th right now.

Yes, yes... he should drop out of the race... He's washed and can realistically compete for places around 10th spot GC. /s

The Tour will be decided in 3rd week, a lot of uphill roads are yet to come and we will see who has the best legs then.

The only mishap Roglic had till this point was 2nd stage on San Luca where he shouldn't lost 20 seconds.

Pogacar will feel Giro's legs, and Vingegaard will feel his injuries and not-optimal tour preparation, so it's far from over.

Rodriguez (exceptional climber, not so TT), Evenopoel (best TT, good climber), Roglic (very good climber and TT), Ayuso (he's hiding and not wanting to cooperate) all of these guys still have realistic hopes to be in yellow after the final mountain TT in Nice.

 

[BullsFan22]

Tadej would have attacked much earlier had it not been for the wind.

 

[Rob5091]

On the subject of Ayuso, I find the 'moralistic' condemnations of his behavior (which I'm reading & hearing just about everywhere this morning) so completely... detached from reality, it blows my mind.

Stuff that happens on the road is the result of team tactics & when it's not, it's in most cases the result of what's actually in the rider's contract. It was said a few years ago Ayuso had a clause in his contract which stated he didn't have to work for Pogačar. If he was also contracted to be able to ride the Tour this year, then everything we've seen is easily explainable.

Which is interesting to read as just before the Tour (June 20) Velo listened to the voice of Pogi's master, Matxin,
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...france/they-know-tadej-pogacar-is-number-one/

“They understand Tadej is number one in the world. Although we have a team of rock stars, they believe in him as the leader of this team for the Tour,” Fernández Matxin said Wednesday.

“When Almeida and [Juan] Ayuso asked me to come to the Tour, I told them that it was fine, but that we would ride with the idea of a single leader and that nothing different would be done from what we had decided,” Fernández Matxin told Bici.

 

[DarkBlue]

Jonas and his weight excuse for losing time on the descent makes me laugh.

If Pog is heavier then surely it's harder for him on the uphill - need more w/kg to stick with Jonas - so what's his excuse there?

 

[scribers]

On the subject of Ayuso, I find the 'moralistic' condemnations of his behavior (which I'm reading & hearing just about everywhere this morning) so completely... detached from reality, it blows my mind.

Stuff that happens on the road is the result of team tactics & when it's not, it's in most cases the result of what's actually in the rider's contract. It was said a few years ago Ayuso had a clause in his contract which stated he didn't have to work for Pogačar. If he was also contracted to be able to ride the Tour this year, then everything we've seen is easily explainable.

Yates meanwhile was signed as a super domestique. Everyone knows this. So I find the reactions whereby Yates is a top bloke & Ayuso a villain a bit too much. These guys are doing what they're contracted to do. Sepp Kuss for example didn't ride around 'benevolently' helping Rog & Vinge win GT's, i.e. it was his job description. If he didn't do it, they would have gotten someone else to.

Do you actually kmow what’s in their contract?

 

[scribers]

Ayuso probably thinks he can climb with Pogi and Jonas. Hell even drop them if he's given the chance. UAE should have taken McNulty over him. Let Ayuso have the Vuelta. He's clearly good enough to win it.

Mou told us mcnulty is not a lot better than Ayuso

 

[Lequack]

Backstage pass UAE

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyOA-VtQ66Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[Rackham]

Do you actually kmow what’s in their contract?

Does anyone? I'm just tired of all the influencers, podcasters & youtubers jumping into the ring with their hot takes looking for drama which generates clicks & traffic, i.e. which in this instance is about portraying Ayuso as some sort of villain because he cares about his own GC placing.

Even 'if' Ayuso had gone rogue, I say good for him. This isn't the United Nations, I'm not looking for anyone to create ever-lasting world peace in the peloton or in these super teams. I had my fill of that last year in the Vuelta when the geniuses on social media decided they didn't want a GC battle in week 3.

So I say let Ayuso race. It'll be fun. If Almeida has a problem with that, I don't care. Hell, if UAE has a problem with that... I don't care either!

Pog is strong enough as it is. It's absurd for some people to pretend he needs Ayuso's devotion anyway. He's a big boy & he can win this Tour with or without 7 riders burying themselves for him.

 

[scribers]

That’s some dystopian literature right there. lol

 

[DenisMenchov]

On the subject of Ayuso, I find the 'moralistic' condemnations of his behavior (which I'm reading & hearing just about everywhere this morning) so completely... detached from reality, it blows my mind.

Stuff that happens on the road is the result of team tactics & when it's not, it's in most cases the result of what's actually in the rider's contract. It was said a few years ago Ayuso had a clause in his contract which stated he didn't have to work for Pogačar. If he was also contracted to be able to ride the Tour this year, then everything we've seen is easily explainable.

Yates meanwhile was signed as a super domestique. Everyone knows this. So I find the reactions whereby Yates is a top bloke & Ayuso a villain a bit too much. These guys are doing what they're contracted to do. Sepp Kuss for example didn't ride around 'benevolently' helping Rog & Vinge win GT's, i.e. it was his job description. If he didn't do it, they would have gotten someone else to.

There's no possible way to have 'no working for Pogačar' clause in the contract. First because a rider has to do what his DS is telling him, and working for Pogačar is impossible to define. Second, why would a suoerteam with the best rider in the World put such a burden on themselves? Maybe he can have a clause "Not racing in same races as Pogačar" but if he was willing to do it just to be in the Tour then UAE can tell him to do whatever they think is the best in the race. So, yes, Ayuso was being sneaky yesterday.

 

[Rackham]

There's no possible way to have 'no working for Pogačar' clause in the contract. First because a rider has to do what his DS is telling him, and working for Pogačar is impossible to define. Second, why would a suoerteam with the best rider in the World put such a burden on themselves? Maybe he can have a clause "Not racing in same races as Pogačar" but if he was willing to do it just to be in the Tour then UAE can tell him to do whatever they think is the best in the race. So, yes, Ayuso was being sneaky yesterday.

The rumor about Ayuso inserting a "no riding for Pog" clause in his contract is quite old. It was discussed here:

Page 25 - Juan Ayuso discussion thread

Page 25 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

That’s some dystopian literature right there. lol

Vive the dystopia.

Seriously though, i.e. from my chair when I was watching yesterday, Ayuso's little mini insurrection (& Almeida's hilarious hand gesture) is what made the Galibier's finale interesting & watchable instead of 'this is boring why am I watching'.

I don't have money on Pog winning & I don't work for UAE either. So let them fight.

 

[scribers]

I don’t mind the drama either. And I don’t know what’s in a riser contract nor pretend to. However, broe said yesterday riser contracts don’t actually specify domestique. He actually said they can’t. I accept his word on it given he’s an attorney and involved in a team

 

[Escarabajo]

Something I noticed yesterday when I was watching the final kilometers again and before Almeida's hand gesture, it was Pogacar saying something on the radio. So it could have been him saying more pace, where is Ayuso, or else.

So it looks like Pogacar's radio call initiated everything, not Joao. And I think it was a miss opportunity like some said here, and Chris Horner also said on his podcast. They could have drilled it one after another until they dropped and most likely dropped everyone in the process. everyone was in the limit. Pogacar said after the stage was over that the plan was just to attack before the mountain top and get the bonus, but if you run out of teammates in the train you have to go and I think, IMHO, he would have taken massive (a lot more time) time from Jonas had he gone earlier. He just didn't know it and was a bit afraid of going too early.

My 2 cents,

 

[Rob5091]

Nothing to see here. Keep calm and carry on ...
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/th...-almeidas-galibier-gesture-at-tour-de-france/

On Wednesday morning, UAE Team Emirates sports manager Matxin Joxean Fernandez explained that the headwind on the Galibier meant his team had deviated from the usual tactic of having riders swing off after taking long turns on the front. Instead, Almedia, Ayuso and Adam Yates looked to share the workload by swapping turns. “In the headwind it was better not to have long pulls and to change for the recovery,” Matxin said.

So by chance Ayuso was at the back ... sounds like some bs to me, but what the h*ck do I know!

Sports director Andrej Hauptman dismissed the idea that Ayuso had been looking to his own GC aspirations by settling in at the back of the group, insisting that his position had come about by chance rather than by design.

“No, this is racing,” Hauptman told Cyclingnews. “All are fighting for position, there is always someone a bit behind. This is cycling.

 

[ciranda]

Does anyone? I'm just tired of all the influencers, podcasters & youtubers jumping into the ring with their hot takes looking for drama which generates clicks & traffic, i.e. which in this instance is about portraying Ayuso as some sort of villain because he cares about his own GC placing.

Even 'if' Ayuso had gone rogue, I say good for him. This isn't the United Nations, I'm not looking for anyone to create ever-lasting world peace in the peloton or in these super teams. I had my fill of that last year in the Vuelta when the geniuses on social media decided they didn't want a GC battle in week 3.

So I say let Ayuso race. It'll be fun. If Almeida has a problem with that, I don't care. Hell, if UAE has a problem with that... I don't care either!

Pog is strong enough as it is. It's absurd for some people to pretend he needs Ayuso's devotion anyway. He's a big boy & he can win this Tour with or without 7 riders burying themselves for him.

I'm with Ayuso all the way, so lame with Almeida acting like some kind of german shephard watch dog

there's really no problem until there's a real issue for Pogi to test if he's loyal or not, yesterday Juan was a good team mate

 

[hayneplane]

tour de france on french soil is kryptonite for french riders

Maybe we have a solution to the French GC drought - hold the entire race in Italy