Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 7: Nuits-Saint-Georges > Gevrey-Chambertin, 25.3 km (ITT)

[ppanther92]

We shouldn't count G. Thomas, Froome and Bernal.

Whats the cutoff then? In any case, even Hindley and Kuss have better GT results than Evenepoel so far. Obviously he has a higher ceiling in the current form, but thats an academic discussion so far without results to back it. And ultimately best GT riders of an era is a result-driven metric, no?

 

[ppanther92]

I'll repeat myself here, i.e. they're absolutely the 4 best GT riders of this era.

There's really no debate here. It's 2024, i.e. you won't find higher rated GT riders than those 4 names. There's a reason they're calling them the fantastic 4, i.e. because that's the star cast.

If you want to talk about previous eras, go ahead, but right here & right now they're the biggest names in the sport in terms of GT racing.

Ok, definition then. For me "best" is rather result-driven than potential. But if we distinguish between potential and achievement, no objection.

 

[AmRacer]

Whats the cutoff then? In any case, even Hindley and Kuss have better GT results than Evenepoel so far. Obviously he has a higher ceiling in the current form, but thats an academic discussion so far without results to back it. And ultimately best GT riders of an era is a result-driven metric, no?

Do we talk about the current peloton?
Or a future peloton?

 

[Oldermanish]

not as strong as the ones you were smoking

he literally said he heard a pop. The NBC crew highlighted the flat

They responded to him bouncing his wheel around. They're racing in the most amazing wine region of the world....drop a burgundy glass and it sounds like a small explosion. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened.

 

[AmRacer]

I'll repeat myself here, i.e. they're absolutely the 4 best GT riders of this era.

There's really no debate here. It's 2024, i.e. you won't find higher rated GT riders than those 4 names. There's a reason they're calling them the fantastic 4, i.e. because that's the star cast.

If you want to talk about previous eras, go ahead, but right here & right now they're the biggest names in the sport in terms of GT racing.

Not era, and the Tour isn't finished yet.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

Evenepoel is part of the "star cast" because he wins a lot of other races.

 

[Peter von]

I'll repeat myself here, i.e. they're absolutely the 4 best GT riders of this era.

There's really no debate here. It's 2024, i.e. you won't find higher rated GT riders than those 4 names. There's a reason they're calling them the fantastic 4, i.e. because that's the star cast.

If you want to talk about previous eras, go ahead, but right here & right now they're the biggest names in the sport in terms of GT racing.

It’s your use of the word era; in a sports context it’s usually used to describe several seasons and not current form. Often more than one generation.

I’d just call them the four best gc riders.

 

[Le Grand Doop]

Best 4 GT riders of this era? Evenepoel has 1 overall win, a 12th in GC and 2 DNFs.

He's 24.

He's has had a career/life endangering injury and got COVID while wearing pink.

He may not end up a major GT winner, but don't compare him to Pog's trajectory. If you compare historically, his future could still end up roses.

 

[topcat]

Remco heard Lefevre popping the champagne cork to celebrate the stage win and thought he had a fish-tailing blow out. Very understandable, really. It probably cost him 1 to 2 minutes and an unassailable gc lead.

 

[Rackham]

It’s your use of the word era; in a sports context it’s usually used to describe several seasons and not current form. Often more than one generation.

I’d just call them the four best gc riders.

I'd say it's my inclusion of Evenepoel which is the 'sticking point' based on the responses to my post.

Context matters in his case. Will he last 3 weeks? I have no idea. But he's certainly the biggest potential (& name) among everyone who isn't called Pog, Rog or Vingegaard.

And when we talk about potential... it cuts both ways, i.e. there's potential to do better (which is what Evenepoel is aiming for) & then there's lost potential, which is what a rider like Bernal (for example) represents due to his accident. He said he was posting the best numbers of his career, but that's not the point, i.e. the point is what would his numbers have been today without all his health problems? So he's no longer one of the best. Sad, but true.

 

[pihi42]

I'll repeat myself here, i.e. they're absolutely the 4 best GT riders of this era.

Let's see..

Pogi: 3 1 1 2 2 1 3W+3O = 6/6 podiums
Jonas: 46 2 1 1 2 2W+2O = 4/5 podiums
Roglič: 58 38 4 3 1 2 1 D 1 D D 1 3 4W 3O = 7/13 podiums
Remco: D 1 D 12 1W 0O = 1/4 podiums

Can you spot the odd one out?

 

[Rob5091]

Chapeau Remco on doing the business, but Pogi's getting bored ... look out for 70 km attack!
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ta...amid-boring-stretch-of-tour-de-france-stages/
"I must say that this year's Tour de France is a bit strange," Pogačar said. "We had a fun first four days, but now this week is a little bit like there's nothing to look forward to. If there wasn't a time trial today, then it would be a really boring, strange Tour with flat stages where nobody wants to go in the breakaway."

So, then who's going to win the Vuelta?

 

[Kaptain Kool]

I guess one can say that Evenepoel is one of the top 4 GC riders in the same way that the ancients 10 years ago considered Teejay Van Garderen one of The Big 5. I'd agree to that.

 

[Rackham]

Let's see..

Pogi: 3 1 1 2 2 1 3W+3O = 6/6 podiums
Jonas: 46 2 1 1 2 2W+2O = 4/5 podiums
Roglič: 58 38 4 3 1 2 1 D 1 D D 1 3 4W 3O = 7/13 podiums
Remco: D 1 D 12 1W 0O = 1/4 podiums

Can you spot the odd one out?

I guess one can say that Evenepoel is one of the top 4 GC riders in the same way that the ancients 10 years ago considered Teejay Van Garderen one of The Big 5. I'd agree to that.

I can't believe that I'm actually here defending Remco Evenepoel's GT "stardom", but I stand by my posts.

I'll also say top 4 in this TdF right now on paper has far, far more value than whoever was sitting 2-3-4 back in 2014 when Nibali won. The level is incomparable.

 

[RobertCrawley]

They responded to him bouncing his wheel around. They're racing in the most amazing wine region of the world....drop a burgundy glass and it sounds like a small explosion. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened.

No, they were responding to Thinco putting his hand to the right, a signal that he needed the car. That's what sounded the sirens.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Whats the cutoff then? In any case, even Hindley and Kuss have better GT results than Evenepoel so far. Obviously he has a higher ceiling in the current form, but thats an academic discussion so far without results to back it. And ultimately best GT riders of an era is a result-driven metric, no?

Don't forget Simon Yates, he has a win, a podium and was 4th last year so while he seems far from GT winning form, he's also not completely washed as a GC rider the way someone like Esteban Chaves (two podiums back in 2015-16) or Nairo Quintana (two wins but not since 2016 and with his DQ from the 2022, no top 10s in five years) would appear to be.

 

[bill1109]

Didn't watch. But would have thought remco won by 2 minutes based on the hype during race. Lol

 

[Unchained]

Well, a budget/salary cap would help, but we're some way away from that.

And the more power the teams get, the more we are destined to avoid parity rules, because the top tier teams will always vote against it. Just look at F1, where they tried to encourage more teams to enter, to improve the dwindling field and interest... and all the teams would only allow it through once the new teams had been restricted so much that they couldn't be competitive, and they all pottered around the back and then ran out of money and left the sport again. Teams didn't want to split the money more ways, because it would affect the amount of money they could make.

Similarly, if they proposed ending relegation from the EPL tomorrow, teams like Crystal Palace, Ipswich, Nottingham Forest, they're going to vote for it in a heartbeat. They KNOW they're condemning themselves to eternal pauper status because they know they can't compete with the Manchester City and Liverpool types - but it's better for the financial bottom line to be losing every week at the top level than winning every week at the second tier.

Again I agree with you, just have a much different perspective based on other sports, golf,tennis, basketball, football (US) and regular football. Cycling is ash tray, cash in the sofa cushions compared to others.

Record-breaking salary: Cristiano Ronaldo to earn $426 a minute at Saudi Arabian club Al Nassr

37-year-old’s $207 million a year deal is largest-ever in history of football

gulfnews.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/03/sport/lebron-james-contract-los-angeles-lakers-spt-intl/index.html

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wEBHvuXg60&pp=ygUYSGlnaGVzdCBwYWlkIGJpa2UgcmFjZXJz

 

[Valv.Piti]

I wonder when the La Pierre Saint Martin-moment will come for this year's "Big 4". At least it looks to be a lot more competitive than that year, which is good, but I I still wonder what would happen if you'd dump them into a replica of that stage tomorrow in 35 degrees heat. Watched that one the other day and I still got surprised just how many big names got completely cooked in the bottom without the domestiqes from Movistar and Sky really turning it up.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I'll repeat myself here, i.e. they're absolutely the 4 best GT riders of this era.

There's really no debate here. It's 2024, i.e. you won't find higher rated GT riders than those 4 names. There's a reason they're calling them the fantastic 4, i.e. because that's the star cast.

If you want to talk about previous eras, go ahead, but right here & right now they're the biggest names in the sport in terms of GT racing.

I've got no problems reading your point here, e.g. not referring to history, but state of affairs at present.
And I like this very much too.
That we still have the 4 GC guys battlimg for podium, not a single of them switched off by chrashes, sub par form or the like.
(edit: dunno whether my mobile signal or the forum, nothing happened when clicking save button an hour ago)

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

The problem is the difference in definition between "right now" and "of this era". The former is about the present, which can change very quickly, and the latter doesn't change that quickly and is measured over a longer period of time.

Another thing hard to compare speaking eras when some of the 'era riders' being on the starting list but peak level years ago.
However, the Strava KOM comparison of the 'easy' south side blimb of Galibier might give a clue. But still shorter stage (however Pantani l'Alpe d'Huez record still to stand by margin though 200k high mountain stage, compared to Lance ITT'ing same section at Lance speed a decade later).

Nevertheless, I read the post with Recham's clear point in view and think we're all delighted about this 4 man podium battle still being relevant after 7 stages.

 

[scribers]

I don't mind them having their own podcast, but when a major network gives them a platform it strikes me as bizarre.

Why didn't NBC stick with Horner, btw.? Was he just not filtered enough? That's actually a conversation for a different time and different thread...

I think the digital area of peacock doesn’t rise to the level of network broadcasting. Within that area subscribers can choose to click on it or not and still see the race. I’m sure they know lance is a polarizing figure. But he does give a very entertaining podcast, to me at least. I watched it from day one when he was in the aero stream and was literally in the woods and figuratively in the woods as public person. Who knows if peacock will open the door further to him. I doubt it.

Horner is a different thing. His break up with nbc was a loud divorce that’s for sure. I don’t know anything beyond chriss constant digs. He is better than teejay and a lot of the other people in the rotating door.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809260725904212258

View: https://x.com/VelonCC/status/1809260725904212258/photo/1


Arm position of Roglic and Vingegaard is widely different.

 

[dobrien]

Remco heard Lefevre popping the champagne cork to celebrate the stage win and thought he had a fish-tailing blow out. Very understandable, really. It probably cost him 1 to 2 minutes and an unassailable gc lead.

You Remco haters are all alike; you KNOW VERY WELL it cost him at least 3 minutes and the stage win on Sunday!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I can't believe that I'm actually here defending Remco Evenepoel's GT "stardom", but I stand by my posts.

I'll also say top 4 in this TdF right now on paper has far, far more value than whoever was sitting 2-3-4 back in 2014 when Nibali won. The level is incomparable.

The problem is that "era" is imprecisely defined. If you said "the top 4 GT riders of the present day" then you'd have seen much less blow-back. For me, for something to be an 'era' it has to last through a good few years, so we have, for example, the Sky era. Plus of course riders peak at different times. Primož Roglič is older than riders who very much belong to the 'last' era in terms of their GT contention, such as Fabio Aru, Esteban Chaves, Romain Bardet, Thibaut Pinot, Nairo Quintana, and hell, he's only one month older than Ilnur Zakarin.

If you view the current "era" as anything post-Covid (not unreasonable given the gap in the calendar it created and that it makes a convenient cut-off), then we still have to contest that Jai Hindley (a 1st and a 2nd at the Giro in 2020 and 2022, plus two other top 10s), Egan Bernal (1st and 6th in the Giro and Vuelta in 2021) and Sepp Kuss (1st in the 2023 Vuelta, 8th in the 2021 Vuelta, and 5 other top 20s since 2020) have a stronger GT palmarès than Remco (he has a better record than Tao Geogeghan Hart at least, with his next best being 12th to Tao's 19th), while cases can also be made for riders who had won GTs prior to the pandemic who have since scored podiums and shown they are still challengers - while these bear the hallmarks of being "last year's men", Geraint Thomas has three podiums from the last three seasons, one at the Tour and two at the Giro; Simon Yates has a podium from 2022 and a fourth from 2023. Thomas does feel like a bit of a hanger-on from the 'last' era, for sure, but he's also demonstrably still relevant, he's not like, say, Nairo Quintana, who is nevertheless an active GT winner with five further podiums - just that he hasn't hit the top 3 since 2017.

Definitely having a win pulls him above the likes of, say, Enric Mas, but even so, Mas has two podiums and four top 6s since the pandemic; in many scoring systems he could be argued to be the better Grand Tour rider. But, if you offered every rider in the péloton the choice to have either Mas' GT palmarès or Evenepoel's, I can't think many riders would pick the former.