Tour de France 2025 route rumours and announcements

[OlavEH]

Also, I'm bored with Loze, I think it's being way overused, if Courchavel is paying, finish there as it gives more opportunity to attack on Madeline, like 1997 for example.

The MTFs from the Tarentaise valley are really not very inspiring. And next year there are two of them. Loze should after next year be used again until they have paved both sides of Tougnete and could do a Tougnete - Loze double with a stage finish at the Courchevel altiport.

 

[Escarabajo]

i want to see both 60k ITT and 200+km mountain stages

You can order online some stages from the 90's and the 80's. Maybe you can find some in Tizcycling.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

After a day to think about, decided that route isn't too bad. But not good, either.
A solid 3 out of 10 with breakdown on watchability.

• 10 stages that I won't watch at all (stages 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 13, 15, 17, 20, 21)
• 7 stages to watch last 10km to 20km (2, 6, 7, 10, 12, 16, 19)
• 4 stages to watch more than 20km (4, 11, 14, 18)

First group could change if I find out some thing interesting happens, like echelons or interesting break action.
So maybe 15 to 20 hours of viewing over 3 weeks. Can't complain about that.

 

[scribers]

They still have to figure out if there's any road between those places. They will send an expedition to find out they way they did before 1910 Tour: then the man they sent got lost near Tourmalet and survived a terrible night in the wild Pyrenees.

And was held in terrifying captive by the reclusive and potentially cannibalistic basque peoples

 

[Rob5091]

You think Pogi won´t play a (big) role in stages 2, 4, 6 and 7?

If Vingegaard is at 100% probably not, which means Pogi could be facing his biggest enemy, namely (controlling) himself.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The empirical evidence is that this is not in fact what is happening.

In fact if anything the trend since COVID is remarks from the peloton that stages are being ridden hard from a significant distance out. This reached a point last year where people were actually complaining that breaks weren't being given enough time on mountain stages, despite breaks taking mountain stages usually being a sign of passive racing.

You can say it has nothing to do with stage design but frankly the constant complaining in these threads confuses me when the actual racing since 2021 has suggested that whatever their stage design philosophy has been since then, it's been either producing good racing, or at least not hampering it excessively.

Riding a stage hard ≠ interesting racing, though. Lots of stages are being ridden at a really high pace, which is undoubtedly riding the stage hard, but the whole péloton riding together at a fast pace does not an entertaining prospect make in and of itself.

This is why ASO have actually been doing really well in recent years (at least until 2024 which was disappointing in comparison in this regard) with flat and transitional stages, baiting the wind, including small obstacles here and there that were well-placed, to take advantage of this. The mountain stages have been lagging behind in their design, being far too formulaic and relying on two tropes: regular MTFs and big climbs based more on their name value than their racing value.

And while the riders may make the race, the organisers provide them with the brushes, the paints and the canvas. Every race should be designed with the aim of warding against negativity, so should be designed with the worst case scenario in mind: what would happen if the 2012 Giro péloton arrived at this race?

 

[OlavEH]

Came here for some interesting discussion of what looks like a great route.

Race goes to Normandy and Brittany with what seems sure to be great action in the first week. Then hits a bunch of good climbs in the Massif, Superbagneres for the first time in forever, then Hautacam, Ventoux, De la Loze, and La Plagne, a mountain TT, and it's just pages of bitching and posturing about how bad the route is.

The first week is better than expected, but that doesn't make this a good route. If I'm very generous it is perhaps 5/10, not much more than that.

 

[zlev11]

yeah i guess you gotta give them some props for having the race in France

 

[gregrowlerson]

If they had to do a MTT why not do Ventoux and have 3 road stages in the Pyrenees?

 

[ashhutch1997]

If they had to do a MTT why not do Ventoux and have 3 road stages in the Pyrenees?

Imagine if they tried to do the 1987 Mont Ventoux MTT today.

 

[fbjim]

Came here for some interesting discussion of what looks like a great route.

Race goes to Normandy and Brittany with what seems sure to be great action in the first week. Then hits a bunch of good climbs in the Massif, Superbagneres for the first time in forever, then Hautacam, Ventoux, De la Loze, and La Plagne, a mountain TT, [[deleted content]]

It was entertaining for a few years but frankly it seems like a gimmick at this point. Someone said this was like 2009, and have you *seen* the 2009 parcours?

 

[fbjim]

Riding a stage hard ≠ interesting racing, though. Lots of stages are being ridden at a really high pace, which is undoubtedly riding the stage hard, but the whole péloton riding together at a fast pace does not an entertaining prospect make in and of itself.

This is why ASO have actually been doing really well in recent years (at least until 2024 which was disappointing in comparison in this regard) with flat and transitional stages, baiting the wind, including small obstacles here and there that were well-placed, to take advantage of this. The mountain stages have been lagging behind in their design, being far too formulaic and relying on two tropes: regular MTFs and big climbs based more on their name value than their racing value.

And while the riders may make the race, the organisers provide them with the brushes, the paints and the canvas. Every race should be designed with the aim of warding against negativity, so should be designed with the worst case scenario in mind: what would happen if the 2012 Giro péloton arrived at this race?

This is like saying two teams playing attacking ball doesn't make for an exciting game in itself, because things still have to happen. That's true, but things are more likely to happen when the race is ridden hard. It makes it more likely that you get situations like peloton splits ridden in anger that teams have to deal with, or dangerous breaks going up because the race situation becomes unmanageable. It also makes it more likely that teams arrive at the finale with depleted domestiques.

and frankly, looking at the best stages in the last few years, and there isn't really much of a pattern that suggests that "hard HC and cat 1 final" is the be-all end-all of stage design.

Granon 22 was HC/HC, though this thread would probably call it a unipuerto because Galibier is a joke grinder HC or something. Hautacam 22, one of the best stages I've ever seen live, was cat 1/HC final. Laruns 23 was practically a unipuerto. Even 2024 had the very entertaining PdB stage which mostly consisted of valley road with the hardest climb at the end.

 

[ingsve]

Just like in 2002 (and perhaps other years, idk) the Mont Ventoux stage will be passing through Chateauneuf du Pape. In 2002 there was an intermediate sprint in that town. One of the soigneurs on Credit Agricole said to Hushovd that "today you are going in a break and you are winning the intermediate sprint" because the winner would get something like 14 cases of champagne which the soigneur wanted a piece of. And that's exactly what happened.

 

[fbjim]

I also want to say that valley road before a final makes attacking harder, but doesn't necessarily kill it, and can create very interesting situations where attackers have to work with a group up the road.

Valle Spluga 2021 probably one of the best examples of this in recent GTs.

 

[Escarabajo]

After a day to think about, decided that route isn't too bad. But not good, either.
A solid 3 out of 10 with breakdown on watchability.

• 10 stages that I won't watch at all (stages 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 13, 15, 17, 20, 21)
• 7 stages to watch last 10km to 20km (2, 6, 7, 10, 12, 16, 19)
• 4 stages to watch more than 20km (4, 11, 14, 18)

First group could change if I find out some thing interesting happens, like echelons or interesting break action.
So maybe 15 to 20 hours of viewing over 3 weeks. Can't complain about that.

Stages 18 and 19 are mammoth. They are very hard if you ask me. If they had more than 200 km they would be the classic 90's or 80's stages. So it would be nice to watch from the beginning.

That said, as some podcasts suggest, with Pogacar being such a strong rider, the stages could feel somewhat boring unless we see exciting battles from the breakaways. IMHO.

 

[fbjim]

If there's something I don't like it's the lack of descent finishes. It reminds me of 2022 where they seemingly overreacted to the lack of MTFs in 2021 (if you remember, 2021 didn't have a true MTF until stage 17, though I think Tignes not being a "true" mtf is just a technicality), though that was an excellent race anyway.

Really, I'd replace the MTT with a descent Pyrenees stage, but I hate MTTs, so whatever.

 

[Netserk]

If they had to do a MTT why not do Ventoux and have 3 road stages in the Pyrenees?

Auch > Hautacam, via Marie Blanque and Aubisque (no Bordères)
Pau > Superbagnères, via Balès
Bagnères-de-Luchon > Peyragudes, via Peyresourde, Ancizan, Aspin, Lançon, Azet (you can front-load the stage further by doing Azet as the second climb)

Long stage > medium stage > short stage
Hard MTF > less hard MTF > least hard MTF

Drawbacks: no Tourmalet (could be included as only climb before Hautacam, or with Bordères in between EDIT: the wildcard move would be to pave the road from Couraduque to the descent of Spandelles).

 

[Peyroteo94]

I can see Pogacar winning 3 stages (stages 4 or 7, 6, 10) before hautacam and that's terrifying!

 

[E_F_]

I can see Pogacar winning 3 stages (stages 4 or 7, 6, 10) before hautacam and that's terrifying!

With this year's difference in strength I'd expect Pogi to have it wrapped up after the MTT.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is like saying two teams playing attacking ball doesn't make for an exciting game in itself, because things still have to happen. That's true, but things are more likely to happen when the race is ridden hard. It makes it more likely that you get situations like peloton splits ridden in anger that teams have to deal with, or dangerous breaks going up because the race situation becomes unmanageable. It also makes it more likely that teams arrive at the finale with depleted domestiques.

And when racing is set up in a way that makes it more likely things happen, it's then frustrating when the course design seems to be designed around having it only happening in the last 45 minutes.

Like I say, the organisers can't control the péloton that shows up, only set the course that that péloton is performing on. While we may have seen some more aggressive pélotons in recent years (albeit largely fuelled by a greater haves-have nots divide than we've seen in decades), the organisers still need to be aware that the 2012 Giro péloton could turn up and plan accordingly.

 

[Peyroteo94]

With this year's difference in strength I'd expect Pogi to have it wrapped up after the MTT.

Vingegaard will give us a good fight. The problem for Vingegaard is how good the first week looks to Pogacar. A flat TT early in the race and punchy stages plays in Pogacar's hands.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Come on lads, just chill, there's enough things in life to be stressed about, and different opinions regarding bike race routes is not one of them.

Mod's note: most of what this refers to has been deleted, so it will seem out of context, but a worthwhile reminder, so I left it here..

 

[Rob5091]

Nice to know, I'm not the only one thinking this, Thijs Zonneveld,

"The Tour organization must have watched with horror at the way Tadej Pogacar decided one race after another prematurely last year. If he was at the start, the winner was known," writes the Dutch ex-pro turned pundit in his column for Algemeen Dagblad. "Nightmare for the shareholders of the ASO of course: after a week and a half they see all the TV viewers zapping away to Heel Frankrijk Bakt or the World Swimming Championship with that new French poster boy. So it can't be otherwise that they have thought about the Anti-Pogi-Tour: a course that suits him as little as possible."

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...te-is-a-direct-reaction-to-pogacars-dominance

 

[rghysens]

I have to say I like the inclusion of Superbagneres and La Plagne after some decades a lot. I even like the stages they are part of. Also making good use of the terrain in Normandy for the first time in history (or so it seems) is a good point.
The massif central stage won´t create the gaps this years stage to Lioran did, but will provide for some entertaining racing, albeit in the breakaway.
What I don´t like is the inclusion of a mtt when you already have 5 hc mtf´s. Could have been a second flat tt. And those 5 mtf´s as such are two too much.
Lastly, while most people like the first week, to me it´s too much ctrl+c, ctrl+v. Stages 2, 4, 6 and 7 are almost carbon copies of each other and will have similar results.

 

[ingsve]

After a day to think about, decided that route isn't too bad. But not good, either.
A solid 3 out of 10 with breakdown on watchability.

• 10 stages that I won't watch at all (stages 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 13, 15, 17, 20, 21)
• 7 stages to watch last 10km to 20km (2, 6, 7, 10, 12, 16, 19)
• 4 stages to watch more than 20km (4, 11, 14, 18)

First group could change if I find out some thing interesting happens, like echelons or interesting break action.
So maybe 15 to 20 hours of viewing over 3 weeks. Can't complain about that.

Not a cycling fan huh?