Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 21: Mantes-la-Ville – Paris (132.3k)

[Red Rick]

He's actually not. It's simply disrespectful to riders who are actually in the top of their specialty rather than bang average at everhything.

 

[Sciatic]

Just watched the stage and found it fantastic. I actually think going forward they should always neutralize the final laps and keep the circuit. This route is asking for massive crashes on the last day if time gaps count and at the end you would probably not see any gc riders in the battle for the stage since it wouldn't be worth the risk.

I even kinda liked the unintended side effect of most people finishing on their own a few minutes later. You can actually watch all the guys you just followed for three weeks cross the finish line and see their emotions as they finish the Tour. It gave me a very nice sense of closure. Even if you keep the new circuit but don't neutralize it you would lose all of that.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Valv.Piti]

Drafting is an inherent part of cycling and her identity as a sport. If I want to watch the strongest win I'll watch strongman competitions.

I'll just watch Tour of Flanders, Paris-Roubaix and Liege-Bastogne-Liege instead.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Drafting is an inherent part of cycling and her identity as a sport.

So is peeing while riding, but we don't need a jersey for that either.

 

[bah]

We should probably reduce cycling to an FTP test indoors to do away with anything silly like drafting, tactics, etc.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Every GT should have 7 days for sprinters, 7 days for breakaway artists and 21 days for Pogačar.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

We should probably reduce cycling to an FTP test indoors to do away with anything silly like drafting, tactics, etc.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Sprinters get clowned on way too much. Sprinting is one of the great arts of bike racing and a top sprinter who wins a lot is a much better bike racer than a ridiculous strong climber who can't string performances together due to mistakes/position/tactics/poor skills

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It would have been an all time classic for the ages if she'd said No.

He'd just get back on the bike and start pedalling ...

 

[pmcg76]

Drafting is an inherent part of cycling and her identity as a sport. If I want to watch the strongest win I'll watch strongman competitions.

And that is why it is much more difficult to drop a continental level rider on a pan flat stage, than any other stage of stage, yet it doesn't make them a WT lever rider.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Sprinters get clowned on way too much. Sprinting is one of the great arts of bike racing and a top sprinter who wins a lot is a much better bike racer than a ridiculous strong climber who can't string performances together due to mistakes/position/tactics/poor skills

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

 

[Red Rick]

And that is why it is much more difficult to drop a continental level rider on a pan flat stage, than any other stage of stage, yet it doesn't make them a WT lever rider.

It's the winning at WT level that makes them a WT level rider. Not "everyone who can't do 6 W/kg for 30 minutes isn't a WT rider'. That's the dumbest way to view the sport.

 

[bah]

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

I'll remember Milan's green jersey till my dying day. (ok, I jest).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

That whole stage was great. And a testament to how a long, flat stage (apart from Ventoux) can be raced if riders really wanted to.

 

[Red Rick]

Sprinters get clowned on way too much. Sprinting is one of the great arts of bike racing and a top sprinter who wins a lot is a much better bike racer than a ridiculous strong climber who can't string performances together due to mistakes/position/tactics/poor skills

It's the one of the most basic fallacies of "I don't like x, so they must be ***". Usually x being flat stages.

In other words, Tadej Pogacar must be a garbage rider.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Pogacar clearly wanted the symbolism.
4th TdF win.
4 stage wins this Tour.
4th on the finale stage.

And he won the fourth stage. And he won the Tour by four minutes.

 

[pmcg76]

It's the winning at WT level that makes them a WT level rider. Not "everyone who can't do 6 W/kg for 30 minutes isn't a WT rider'. That's the dumbest way to view the sport.

But they can only win on the easy days. They are the only speciality that don't have to take on GT riders for example.

Let me throw in a quote from a contender for greatest sprinter ever, Cipo himself when he equalled the number of Giro stage wins of some Italian great and was asked about it.

He said"I shouldn't be compared to such a great rider, all I do is sit in the bunch and sprint 200metres at the end"

That's not me, that's Mario Cipollini, most GT stage wins in history. When even the sprinters know it, that's the reality.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

When I think of the 2012 tour, first thing I always think of is peter sagan.

I don't even know really what your point is, you don't like sprinters, that's just your preference. Sprints aren't just going to disappear

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Maybe there's a solution. On flat stages, take the GC time with 20k to go. Then the GC riders can take it easy, and the sprinters can go wild in the last section.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

you don't like sprinters, that's just your preference.

Well, duh. I'm not speaking for anyone else here.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Maybe there's a solution. On flat stages, take the GC time with 20k to go. Then the GC riders can take it easy, and the sprinters can go wild in the last section.

Works until there are crosswinds, then it‘s just super stupid

 

[Valv.Piti]

When I think of the 2012 tour, first thing I always think of is peter sagan.

I don't even know really what your point is, you don't like sprinters, that's just your preference. Sprints aren't just going to disappear

Sagan is more of an incredibly strong classics rider with GOAT positional skills that can sprint pretty well tbf. Similarish to the Van Aerts of the world.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

When I think of the 2012 tour, first thing I always think of is peter sagan.

FFS, Peter Sagan is in a different league, he's not a pure sprinter.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Works until there are crosswinds, then it‘s just super stupid

If it works on 95% of the flat stages at preventing crashes to the main protagonists, I'd be ok sacrificing the likelihood that we might see some action on the remaining 5%. YMMV.

 

[pmcg76]

When I think of the 2012 tour, first thing I always think of is peter sagan.

I don't even know really what your point is, you don't like sprinters, that's just your preference. Sprints aren't just going to disappear

Would that be the Tour that Cav and Greipel won 3 stages each? That's the whole point, Sagan was more likely to win an uphill finish or a reduced bunch sprint, like Mads Pedersen in modern times. Like we seen at the Giro, if there is enough of those stages and little opposition, a rider can dominate as well. It's just rare that you get as many as those stages as flat pure bunch type finishes. I don't see anybody suggesting eliminating Spring stages, just have more variance so more varied types of riders can win. What is wrong with just 3 flat sprint stages per Tour?