Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 21: Mantes-la-Ville – Paris (132.3k)

[Red Rick]

But they can only win on the easy days. They are the only speciality that don't have to take on GT riders for example.

Let me throw in a quote from a contender for greatest sprinter ever, Cipo himself when he equalled the number of Giro stage wins of some Italian great and was asked about it.

He said"I shouldn't be compared to such a great rider, all I do is sit in the bunch and sprint 200metres at the end"

That's not me, that's Mario Cipollini, most GT stage wins in history. When even the sprinters know it, that's the reality.

Yeah, and when it's easy everyone is there. That makes winning hard too.

 

[Oldman]

We should probably reduce cycling to an FTP test indoors to do away with anything silly like drafting, tactics, etc.

Half of the forum is dominated by armchair experts rewriting history to advance their theoretical true winners.
So yes; that's a sport to some.

 

[pmcg76]

Yeah, and when it's easy everyone is there. That makes winning hard too.

Well If I was to post up the Top 20 most Tour stage wins at the Tour wins these past 30 years, how many do you think would be sprinters? Why would that be if its so hard?

 

[Oldman]

Sagan is more of an incredibly strong classics rider with GOAT positional skills that can sprint pretty well tbf. Similarish to the Van Aerts of the world.

His WCRR in Norway was an incredible example of that. Everyone was racing against him and he managed to appear in the front immediately. Stunned that country, for sure.

 

[Red Rick]

His WCRR in Norway was an incredible example of that. Everyone was racing against him and he managed to appear in the front immediately. Stunned that country, for sure.

Everybody raced again him? He did nothing all day and he got to be in the perfect wheel at 300m to go. That's literally the opposite of "everyone races against you"

 

[Red Rick]

Well If I was to post up the Top 20 most Tour stage wins at the Tour wins these past 30 years, how many do you think would be sprinters? Why would that be if its so hard?

Sprinters focus on winning stages more so than GC riders and classics riders isn't exactly shocking. It's a small sample of cycling where they're naturally overrepresented and that's not a problem.

Like I also don't see what's so much better about a rider who sits in the wheels all day and sprints for 10s at the end BUT it's uphill so there's no real sprinters there versus actual flat sprints.

 

[Sciatic]

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

I think my memory of the video from inside the team car for the last 200 meters will linger even longer!! How do they not end up running over other riders or driving off the side of the mountain when they are so wild in the car?

 

[hayneplane]

As always, I will miss my morning TdF coverage! I won't miss "The Feed.com" advertisements. Oh, yah, I will also be so much more productive at work!

Won’t miss the incredibly annoying tech bro E Toro guy wanging on about investors every 20 minutes

 

[hayneplane]

Cavendish won MSR. Zabel won it 4 times.
Milan can sprint. Great track racer, but that's really it. His winning green is really underwhelming.

Especially as he only won it because no other sprinter than an off form Girmay even really went for it and the IS placements on the route were very gerrymandered towards the fast men who get dropped on false flat bridges.

Pogacar wins that as easily as Sagan back in the day if not for peloton politics.

 

[red_flanders]

Just watched it, absolutely incredible. What a show the yellow jersey put on, and what a fantastic, gratifying win for Wout! Incredible, feel-good stuff. Best finish in Paris since 1989.

If that's not the best venue in the world to watch a bike race, I don't know what is.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Mcewen, Petacchi, Cipo, Cav, Zabel, Sagan, Grepell would be blowing away the current generation of sprinters.
the worst era for sprinters since I started watching the tour

 

[Danskebjerge]

Paret-Peintre's win on Ventoux will linger in memory long after Milan's green jersey's been forgotten.

That will be because they changed the green colour. I will never forgive them for that.

 

[pmcg76]

Sprinters focus on winning stages more so than GC riders and classics riders isn't exactly shocking. It's a small sample of cycling where they're naturally overrepresented and that's not a problem.

Like I also don't see what's so much better about a rider who sits in the wheels all day and sprints for 10s at the end BUT it's uphill so there's no real sprinters there versus actual flat sprints.

It's not that it's better, it just gives a different type of rider a chance to win. It's not about eliminating one type of rider, but giving more variance to the types of winners.

You know what I don't get, you moaned and bitched the day Van der Poel got caught just before the line. I happened to put on the TV that day and saw Mathieu in front and thought maybe, so decided to watch it in hope. That stage encapsulated everything I hate about sprint stages with crap teams chasing it down for their no-hope sprinter to get a top 10 when putting someone in a break would likely get the same result and more TV time, whilst Merlier was invisible the whole stage and then won. Just awful. You clearly don't like sprint stages so why would you want more than a handful per Tour?

 

[dazaau]

Just watched it, absolutely incredible. What a show the yellow jersey put on, and what a fantastic, gratifying win for Wout! Incredible, feel-good stuff. Best finish in Paris since 1989.

If that's not the best venue in the world to watch a bike race, I don't know what is.

Agree it was amazing, too bad Mvdp wasn't there as well, but wout was outstanding and it was great to see Pog come out and play - what other yellow jersey would go all out in the cobbles in the rain!

 

[Charlyghoul]

Based on today every other stage next year should just be a kermesse/circuit race. Infinitely more watchable than many sprint or transition stages.
A few mountain stages and a time trial thrown in you have the perfect tour.

 

[houtdffan]

This MUST be the final stage every year the TDF finishes in Paris, EXCEPT if it ends in a TT. Then do the 1989 course

Now, if we can only get Prudhomme to get Guillen to do the same in Spain (he is Guillen's boss as per google:
AI Overview


Christian Prudhomme holds a dual role within Amaury Sport Organisation (ASO), the company that organizes the Tour de France
.
Here's a breakdown of his roles:

• Directeur du Cyclisme at ASO: This position makes him the overall cycling director for ASO, which encompasses the Tour de France and other cycling events organized by the company.

 

[Brullnux]

Absolutely, most of them are at best mid-tier WT riders, but the fact that in an easier race they can sit in, let others do the work and get a chance to win means they win more than just about any other type of rider. I would argue the typical mid tier domestique is a better cyclist than the average sprinter, but the nature of the sport means they don't get to win.

This is an empty statement, sorry. What do you mean by better cyclist? A mid tier domestique is clearly less exceptional than, say, Merlier. Do you mean more versatile? If that's the case, does versatility mean you are a 'better cyclist'? I don't really think so, but if that's what you think it's a truism: a more versatile rider is more versatile. In reality a Merlier is no more a 'mid tier' riders than an exceptional climber who is only good on that parcours (not that many really exist these days).

Cycling is a sport that travels across the roads in a specific area. The geography of the stages and races will be representative of the geography of the area. Sometimes, areas are flat – therefore those who are truly exceptional at pushing power for a minute or two have a place in cycling, as long as they can get over the rest, too.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Most beautiful win of 2025

It's a draw with the one in Siena, I think. The resurrection.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I am admittedly somewhat bitter that we did not get to see a proper green jersey battle. I had hoped to see Phillipsen, MvdP, WvA, in the mix, as well as a better performance from Girmay. Hence my sour mood regarding pure sprinters. And I'm not even a Phillipsen fan.
Also, yes, I wanted Mads Pedersen at the Tour. I'll let it go now.

 

[Gratemans]

His WCRR in Norway was an incredible example of that. Everyone was racing against him and he managed to appear in the front immediately. Stunned that country, for sure.

There was this one stage in the Eneco Tour where he was jumping from wheel to wheel left and right to take the win just at the right moment. It was a thing of beauty.
A well organised sprint-train is fine and all, and I appreciate how difficult it must be to get that just right, but I always admired sprinters more that are able to find their own way.
Out of the current sprinters, the only one that seems to be able to do that is Merlier.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Just watched the stage. Or rather the last ~25k . My typical luck of missing a good stage this edition!

Watching VOD of Danish TV2 broadcast it delivered a special breed of a spicy ingredient to me!

I think it was after only a few minutes of watching I heard Ritter very nonchalantly interject a short remark: "and Vingegaard is over the line".
Completely stone cold in his voice.
Vingo being half a lap down. And no picture of this race's GC #2, status, or anything whatsoever. Instant puzzles in my head! I didn't want to 'cheat' by looking up the internet.
I had to wait what felt like an eternity until shortly before Wout's victory where it was mentioned just as briefly and nonchalantly that the race times had been neutralized.

It would be a bigger novel if I had to list all the thoughts and scenarios I was going through while I waited every second for an update on the GC situation.

This highly exciting element plus the rain-soaked roads and mirror-smooth cobblestones gave the stage a very special kind of nerve-wracking feeling for me.

My nerves were also worn thin on the last descent. Again Ritter "It's Mohoric's chance". I was sure that Pogi's compatriot would land hard in several parts on the cobblestones.

Chapeau, Wout!
A true champion.

In my world, it brought out the same great emotions as on the white roads of spring and the impossible duel against Del Toro up the streets of Siena.

He's back, and how wonderful it was to see.

The thread suggests an alternation between the classic Champs-Elysées, Montmartre and '89 ITT route.

I'm all game.

 

[dobrien]

It's the only correct answer when someone asks with hundreds of people watching.

Based on her response I'm pretty sure he was certain she'd say yes; seems like it was a done deal... pretty boss to do it on the Champs!!

 

[dobrien]

There was this one stage in the Eneco Tour where he was jumping from wheel to wheel left and right to take the win just at the right moment. It was a thing of beauty.
A well organised sprint-train is fine and all, and I appreciate how difficult it must be to get that just right, but I always admired sprinters more that are able to find their own way.
Out of the current sprinters, the only one that seems to be able to do that is Merlier.

Totally. Merlier is really good at it for sure. Cav had the benefit of lots of trains in his day, but he could surf with the best of them if he needed to, he really had that sixth sense. Sagan in his prime was a magical wheel surfer.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Totally. Merlier is really good at it for sure. Cav had the benefit of lots of trains in his day, but he could surf with the best of them if he needed to, he really had that sixth sense. Sagan in his prime was a magical wheel surfer.

Cavendish had incredible instinct, a way to read the sprint as it unfolded that I have not seen duplicated since.

 

[scribers]

Milan almost ran over Healy's dog there

Step on my dog and I’ll chop your head off