Tour de France: Stage 20 Rambouillet - Paris Champs-Élysées 120km

[spalco]

Be good to see where Sagan was when Cav started the sprint, it seemed a long way out!?

#1 two bends before the finish: Wiggins is just bowing out, Sagan is in about 8th position.

#2, just before the final bend: EBH, then Cav, hard to see in this low-res picture, but Sagan is fifth

#3 first wide screen shot on the finish straight - Sagan third, three-ish bike lengths behind?

#4 last shot before Sagan overtakes Goss, still quite a ways to go to the line...

images taken from here. I still struggle to see how Sagan was "faster", he wasn't badly placed at all, he had all the chance in the world to win this sprint.

eta: oh ****, sorry for the size, I'll correct as quickly as I can.
eta2: done

 

[piemonster]

Mountain/ultra runner and a long way from Pro. Which makes me even more of a temporary interloper. As the bike is the 2nd sport. In my defense I didn't know this forum was here and only came on to gauge what other nationalities thought of the whole Sky/Wiggins thing.

It's been enlightening

Bloody love cyclo cross

 

[Sleimas]

Depends what you mean by faster. Who was faster over that distance or who was the fastest (as in top speed)?

EBH slowed down a fair bit earlier than I think Cav would have liked on the lead out. Therefore Cav had to go early. Sagan would have been able to slipstream and so as Cav tired towards the end Sagan would come on strong.

Cavendish said after the finish, that it was his decision to go early, EBH had nothing to do with it.

 

[mscaviy2601]

Oh look at all the newly registered succes-supporters who come in here acting smug. You never see them anytime around until this Tour. And then claim there's an anti-Sky lobby even against people who actually predicted the Sky domination for this Tour (like me).

Luckily experience learns these newly registered users will dissappear faster than the speed of light as soon as success starts to fade. As they are clearly not real cycling fans. They're just in for some british glory.

LolZ

Remarkable logic. Newly registered means that you are not a cycling fan. No other evidence is required, just that one is newly registered. Of course it helps to get the facts right first (join date 10-11-11).

The logic (amongst a number of non-British commentators on here) seems to be - if you are British and a fan of Sky you cannot be a proper cycling fan. There's no better word than bigotry to describe such a view.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Cavendish said after the finish, that it was his decision to go early, EBH had nothing to do with it.

It's called being polite because he won anyway.

Eddy took the fastest line through the corner, but went through slowly for some reason, causing Cav to check inside and go because the only alternative was getting swamped.

 

[mscaviy2601]

It's called being polite because he won anyway.

Eddy took the fastest line through the corner, but went through slowly for some reason, causing Cav to check inside and go because the only alternative was getting swamped.

My impression was that EBH went wide and Cav cut inside him having taken the better line.

 

[Knutsen]

EBH slowed down a fair bit earlier than I think Cav would have liked on the lead out. Therefore Cav had to go early. Sagan would have been able to slipstream and so as Cav tired towards the end Sagan would come on strong.

I think EBH is working on not being Cav's most preferable leadout man..

 

[stampedingviking]

LolZ

Remarkable logic. Newly registered means that you are not a cycling fan. No other evidence is required, just that one is newly registered. Of course it helps to get the facts right first (join date 10-11-11).

The logic (amongst a number of non-British commentators on here) seems to be - if you are British and a fan of Sky you cannot be a proper cycling fan. There's no better word than bigotry to describe such a view.

Well said.

 

[Arnout]

Everyone's welcome. But not if one is a Wiggins fan and publicly comes here to celebrate by being frustrated about other opinions.

That's the issue, that's why we don't care about join date (10-11-11), we care about attitude.

Thank you very much.

 

[piemonster]

or July 2012?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Everyone's welcome. But not if one is a Wiggins fan and publicly comes here to celebrate by being frustrated about other opinions.

That's the issue, that's why we don't care about join date (10-11-11), we care about attitude.

Thank you very much.

Well said.

 

[Sleimas]

It's called being polite because he won anyway.

Eddy took the fastest line through the corner, but went through slowly for some reason, causing Cav to check inside and go because the only alternative was getting swamped.

Could have been tactical, by unexpectedly going at that point Cav created a gap that Sagan had to make up. To me it didn't look like EBH slowed down, maybe it was impression created by Cav sprint.

 

[mscaviy2601]

Everyone's welcome. But not if one is a Wiggins fan and publicly comes here to celebrate by being frustrated about other opinions.

That's the issue, that's why we don't care about join date (10-11-11), we care about attitude.

Thank you very much.

I have no problem with a whole variety of views. What I object too is the blatant bigotry involved in knocking British cycling fans and the incredibly illogical attempts to put down what was an obvious outstanding cycling performance by a team.

saying that you don't like Sky's approach is fine - that's a subjective view. Arguing that the route and the absence of Contador and Schleck were fortuitous to Wiggins' win is logically coherent and a reasonable argument. However saying that Sky are "evil" or a "disgusting disease" or that someone who finishes five bike lengths back is somehow faster than the winner or saying that Sky are cheating because they just happened to win are all illogical, ridiculous and petty and are no better than a petulant child stamping his feet because he hasn't got his way. It's that stupidity and childishness - that attitude - that I take exception too.

By all means.

 

[stampedingviking]

Everyone's welcome. But not if one is a Wiggins fan and publicly comes here to celebrate by being frustrated about other opinions.

That's the issue, that's why we don't care about join date (10-11-11), we care about attitude.

Thank you very much.

But it's OK if you've been here a while and subscribe to the 'Sky are evil and everything's their fault' outlook? which appears to be the attitude of (nearly) everyone who attacks Sky/Wiggins/Cavendish.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I just want to add that I refrain from the people who say Sky is a disease or Sky are evil. I've never been in that crowd. Never will too.

 

[mscaviy2601]

I just want to add that I refrain from the people who say Sky is a disease or Sky are evil. I've never been in that crowd. Never will too.

And for that I say Bravo!! (and mean it sincerely).

 

[mb2612]

I don't understand why people say Sagan wasn't quicker than Cav.

Sagan was held up by the Omega guy, so was further back, and then closed the gap. I figure this is mainly because Cav went from so far out that he was fading towards the end, but that doesn't stop Sagan being faster. Greipel has been faster than Cav plenty of times, Cav still beats him because there is more to sprinting than pure speed.

Interestingly, I think that's 3 out of 4 of Cav's victories on Champs where pretty much everyone behind him has been held up, giving him an easier win.

 

[Arnout]

But it's OK if you've been here a while and subscribe to the 'Sky are evil and everything's their fault' outlook? which appears to be the attitude of (nearly) everyone who attacks Sky/Wiggins/Cavendish.

Well those are probably deluded fans of other riders. I've complimented Cav (who I genuinely like) for his sprint some days ago and the first reaction I got was from a Sky fanboy who thought I was being sarcastic and hateful. I'm getting increasingly fed up by that irritating the world is against us but we were successful regardless attitude. That's all.

I just want to add that I refrain from the people who say Sky is a disease or Sky are evil. I've never been in that crowd. Never will too.

Neither have I. I don't like them and have talked about that here and in the clinic, but not with wild unfunded phrases like that.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Sagan was faster, there is no denying that. But when you have to start from that far back, that doesn't really matter.

It's irrelevant because Cav won at a canter again, but time and again we see a sprint where somebody comes from miles back and everybody says, "wow, rider X was the fastest there", yet somehow, we never see that rider do that from a position starting right at the front (apart from Cav, obviously). There's 2 reasons for that. Firstly, because Cav today had used more energy, compared to Sagan, in getting to his superior position, and secondly, because he sprinted a quarter of a mile into the wind, whilst Sagan had the benefit of using a number of slipstreams. You can be sure that Cav would have won a drag race up the Champs Elysees, had they had one.

Another astonishing sprint again, but he really doesn't trust Eddie, does he?

 

[mscaviy2601]

Another astonishing sprint again, but he really doesn't trust Eddie, does he?

Thankfully Geraint Thomas will be racing again once these Olympics are done and there's a better rapport there. But you are right - EBH and Cav do not look great together. I've also seen a rumour about Renshaw coming to Sky. Don't know how true that is (if at all).

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Wiggo was so impressive when he was on the front.. Just the image of him leading it out and riders sprinting & not being able to get on terms was epic.

He was simultaneously the best TTer, 2nd best climber and best last-but-one lead out man, in this Tour.

No panache though, apparently.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He was simultaneously the best TTer, 2nd best climber and best last-but-one lead out man, in this Tour.

No panache though, apparently.

Well Armstrong attacked himself to get stage wins in almost every mountain stage in 2004.

Not to mention Contador attacking all the time and winning stage.

Yet a lot of people dislike them. Just live with it that not everyone will agree with you that Wiggins is an exciting Tour winner.

 

[mscaviy2601]

He was simultaneously the best TTer, 2nd best climber and best last-but-one lead out man, in this Tour.

No panache though, apparently.

Very nicely put.

 

[will10]

I don't understand why people say Sagan wasn't quicker than Cav.

Sagan was held up by the Omega guy, so was further back, and then closed the gap. I figure this is mainly because Cav went from so far out that he was fading towards the end, but that doesn't stop Sagan being faster. Greipel has been faster than Cav plenty of times, Cav still beats him because there is more to sprinting than pure speed.

Interestingly, I think that's 3 out of 4 of Cav's victories on Champs where pretty much everyone behind him has been held up, giving him an easier win.

It's no coincidence that Cav is always second or third wheel through the last corner.

 

[dgodave]

Oh the iniquity!
.
The slower sprinter wins again!
.
I'm fed up. They should have painted lanes assigned to the finishers, like how the start is for track runners.
.