Tour de France the alliance thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sanchez and Contador would be fools not to work together. Their interests are currently perfectly aligned and both are strong enough riders to contribute to an "alliance". That they are apparently friends and know each other well means that they might feel comfortable discussing plans in advance and trusting the other to do their part, but the core of their relationship over the last couple of stages is mutual self interest.

More generally, Contador sometimes gives the impression that he triumphs more through athletic brilliance than tactical brilliance, but one thing he is very smart about is building relationships in the peloton. Everyone knows that if you work with him, and help him achieve his goals, he will not screw you. If you work with him to pull away from his rivals on a climb, he will let you have the stage. He's even made a point of giving a stage to someone who worked for him in previous years.

Generosity may well be part of his personality (I don't know, having never met the guy), but either way this is also shrewd behaviour founded in having a sense of the bigger picture. Most of the time working with a stronger rider is a tactical mistake, but working with Contador is not.

Stephen Roche was famous for the number of strong alliances he had in the peloton and on quite a number of occasions had as much assistance from riders on rival teams as he had from his own team. I remember him saying something along the lines of it being a key rule to always repay favours. Contador seems to have a similar attitude.

 

[Angliru]

todays hearld sun,not online of course... has to be a miss quote from the paper surely richie can't be that close to evans, guess a true aussie at heart

Aussie's don't do such things as helping riders on other teams. Ask ACF.

 

[No_Balls]

I find it hard to believe anyone would dislike some rider cuz of nationality. But that's a rabbit trail.

Well, it exist. Sadly, it exist. And it is highlighted in this thread.

IMO I don't care who helped who when the two are Samu and Conti at this time. Because both are down to Cadel on GC, so it only makes sense that the two work together to pull Cadel back. I'm a Cadel fan here and even that does not bother me. That's just racing. I would expect more of the same over the next few stages.

No, why should you be angry and upset? As a matter of fact, Cadel gained from that break the first day, and no harm done today. But the stance viewed in this thread makes you realize that even racing Cadel is an outrage and a "conspiracy".

At some point both Samu and Conti will have to get time on the other, but when they were chasing Cadel into Gap that was not the moment to be attacking each other. And by staying together into Gap they were able to reduce the gap to Cadel. Smart riding IMO.

The biggest winner in this combination is of course AC. Since he eliminates a threat going downhill, but Samu can benefit of that as well, if he is allowed to been dragged uphill by Contador, and perhaps win a stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Was it wrong of Piepoli to make all those alliances of mutual benefit? Was it wrong of Rodríguez and Tondó to work together to gap the field in Catalunya last year?

The history of cycling is littered with cases of riders working together for common goals, or even for the same goal if they feel that it's their only chance. Of great climbers who would wait at mountaintops for a lesser climber who could shepherd them down the descent.

Take the Aprica stage of last year's Giro. Scarponi is away with the two Liquigas guys. He works. Why does he work when there's two teammates with him? Well, it's in his interest. Firstly, he wants to get on the podium, and since the two guys with him are ahead of him on time, he needs to help them put time into Arroyo. And they will ask him to work, and offer him the stage victory as a carrot. Why do they do this? Because they need maximum time into Arroyo so that Basso can win the race. And once Arroyo's making his way back and it becomes clear Scarponi won't be on the podium, Scarponi may shirk his turns. And besides, Scarponi will beat them both in a sprint anyway, whether he works or not, so they may as well offer him the win in return for being guaranteed that he will help them.

Mutual benefit is not conspiracy. If the commissaires, Prudhomme, the UCI or something were in on it, then you have a case. If it's just two guys working together who both stand to gain from it, it's just racing. Knowing who to bargain with and who can work with you is just part of the sport. It's something Cadel has been known to struggle with, too.

 

[greenedge]

The Cadel Evans ( good descending ) and Shleck's ( bad descending ) alliance.

 

[auscyclefan94]

They didnt cooperate because they were Spanish. They cooperated through cycling logic.

They were cooperating with Evans too until he decided to drop them. At that point, they are in a group of 2. They can cooperate to help both their times or refuse to work together in order not to be attacked for working together.

99% of the time that 2 riders are together, chasing or trying to distance another rider they work together. Nothing to do with whether they are both Spanish or not.

If Cadel were better at cultivating relationships within the peloton I doubt he or his directors would hesitate in welcoming the aid of another team or rider when it is mutually beneficial. Your never ending whining about this Spanish conspiracy against Cadel is way beyond old and tired.

Where was I whinging about a Spanish conspircay against cadel? Where did I say they were collaborating because they were Spanish? If you read my post I said the spanidards were collaborating. I said 'spaniards' because it is a collective noun to describe the two riders. I never said anything about ganging up on cadel or any sort of conspircay. Maybe you both should of read my post more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Martin318is]

OMG Sanchez and Contador are attacking on the descent again, make them stop with all this working together stuff, it makes the baby Jesus cry!

I LOL'd

nice one! - especially if that's pronounced "Hey-zues"

 

[The Hitch]

Where was I whinging about a Spanish conspircay against cadel? Where did I say they were collaborating because they were Spanish? If you read my post I said the spanidards were collaborating. I said 'spaniards' because it is a collective noun to describe the two riders. I never said anything about ganging up on cadel or any sort of conspircay. Maybe you both should of read my post more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

AH if thats the case then sorry ACF.

my mind subconciously assumed you were going on against those Spaniards again.

You do have a reputation

 

[Captain_Cavman]

They didnt cooperate because they were Spanish. They cooperated through cycling logic.

They were cooperating with Evans too until he decided to drop them. At that point, they are in a group of 2. They can cooperate to help both their times or refuse to work together in order not to be attacked for working together.

99% of the time that 2 riders are together, chasing or trying to distance another rider they work together. Nothing to do with whether they are both Spanish or not.

They clearly are ganging up. They admit they have informed each other of their tactics prior to the stage. The reason they're doing this is because they know, trust and like each other. The fact that they're both Spanish is clearly a factor in this.

It is to do with whether they're both Spanish. Though riders may well know, trust and like each other from different nationalities to each other too, it is less likely.

 

[just some guy]

and have the same coach

 

[greenedge]

Didn't Robert Millar look after Greg Le Mond in 1986??? As Hinault was out to get him?

 

[Angliru]

They clearly are ganging up. They admit they have informed each other of their tactics prior to the stage. The reason they're doing this is because they know, trust and like each other. The fact that they're both Spanish is clearly a factor in this.

It is to do with whether they're both Spanish. Though riders may well know, trust and like each other from different nationalities to each other too, it is less likely.

They are good friends and by coincidence they both were detained by the same crash that caused them to lose over a minute and a half thus they have a common interest in trying to get that time back.