Tour de Pharmacy

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

apart from the trailer looking painfully unfunny aside from the cycling theme, I really don't see anything funny in the role Armstrong seems to be playing in that film (although it's likely those couple minutes in the trailer are the whole extent of his involvement, considering the pretty impressive cast list).

"I have no sense of humour, therefore it follows that Armstrong was making a pointed reference to Tyler Hamilton, even though, yes, he was appearing in a scripted scene which he didn't script, it was clearly about Ty, cause, well, just look, they're both being interviewed."

 

[spalco]

The *** are you talking about? The joke in that video is really bad. Wearing a cycling helmet as a disguise "oh I think that might make me even more recognisable", come on.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Can you laugh at this people?

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

fmk_Rol coming across as being deeply troubled in this topic!!

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

fmk_Rol coming across as being deeply troubled in this topic!!

Deeply - deeply - troubled by the responses of a small minority. But what's new, this is the Clinic.

 

[MarkvW]

This is funny. Wonder how many prospective jurors in Lance's trial will see this show...and conclude that everybody knew that pro cycling was a sewer of doping and corruption.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

This is funny. Wonder how many prospective jurors in Lance's trial will see this show...and conclude that everybody knew that pro cycling was a sewer of doping and corruption.

But ... well ... haven't we proved round here at this stage that not only it was, but it still is ... it's funny the things you end up agreeing with LA on ... :lol:

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

You see, the problem here is you seem to want Armstrong to be what people always wanted Armstrong to be: scheming, conniving, always with the ulterior motive. Some are so used to that mindset that they just can't let it go, everything has to be about Ty or Tygart or Betsy or whoever. Well, news: it doesn't have to be like that.

Maybe. I could be the problem here. We all could. We just might not have enough love in our hearts. Maybe we are the bad ones. HWMNBN isn't doing this to exculpate himself as a mere product of his environs, to take shots at others, or for some free publicity. He's just trying to make us laugh, no strings attached. He would be a force for good in cycling if we just let them, but he's powerless against us. He could even be the one true force for good, as only the dirtiest of athletes can really show us the better way. The ones who didn't dope are just useless losers with no will. But no. We stand in the way. We are but cynics and skeptics, small minded folk who can't dream big, can't believe in miracles. Pity us bigly, if you must.

And I have no qualms about that. That could (really) be it. Seems like the wrong place to make that argument though, if you're hoping for it to get any kind of traction. Most here would seem to rather err in the side of caution. Some of us ar even so juvenile and petty we just want to cycling to move on and hopefully never hear of that particular individual ever again. And we're even willing to risk potentially losing out on salvation in exchange.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Maybe. I could be the problem here. We all could. We just might not have enough love in our hearts. Maybe we are the bad ones. HWMNBN isn't doing this to exculpate himself as a mere product of his environs, to take shots at others, or for some free publicity. He's just trying to make us laugh, no strings attached. He would be a force for good in cycling if we just let them, but he's powerless against us. He could even be the one true force for good, as only the dirtiest of athletes can really show us the better way. The ones who didn't dope are just useless losers with no will. But no. We stand in the way. We are but cynics and skeptics, small minded folk who can't dream big, can't believe in miracles. Pity us bigly, if you must.

And I have no qualms about that. That could (really) be it. Seems like the wrong place to make that argument though, if you're hoping for it to get any kind of traction. Most here would seem to rather err in the side of caution. Some of us ar even so juvenile and petty we just want to cycling to move on and hopefully never hear of that particular individual ever again. And we're even willing to risk potentially losing out on salvation in exchange.

Over analysing really takes the fun out of humour...

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Over analysing really takes the fun out of humour...

I beg to differ (Youtube), just out of habit. The best jokes are when you come around to admitting that you're the punchline, IMHO.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

No surprise to see Lance involved in this terrible idea. Still trying to subtly push his 'everyone was at is - it was a level playing field' agenda.

Also, can't wait to see the sequels 'National Pharmacy League' and 'Wimbledope'.

Jeebus! This whole forum is dedicated to showing that cycling is a sewer of doping yet whenever LA even hints at the truth, all the haters forget everything about the prevalence of doping and attack the idea that everyone WAS on drugs. Show some consistency.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

Isn't laugher one of the stages of grief or did they rewrite that? If you can't laugh at yourself...

You really think Armstrong is laughing at himself? I mean, there's a first time for everything, but I find it so much more likely he's taking shots at someone else.

Why do you assume it's laughing at himself? Why not assume he's laughing at the whole thing about doping? You see, the problem here is you seem to want Armstrong to be what people always wanted Armstrong to be: scheming, conniving, always with the ulterior motive. Some are so used to that mindset that they just can't let it go, everything has to be about Ty or Tygart or Betsy or whoever. Well, news: it doesn't have to be like that.

And this sums up everything that is wrong about this forum. Everything LA does is viewed through a lens of hate and butthurt. No matter what he says, no matter what he does, no matter how much truth he speaks, it is a conspiracy to manipulate the public. People don't even trust themselves--let alone others--to pick the wheat from the chaff; it all has to be rejected.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Jeebus! This whole forum is dedicated to showing that cycling is a sewer of doping yet whenever LA even hnts at the truth, all the haters forget everything about the prevalence of doping and attack the idea that everyone WAS on drugs. Show some consistency.

Ironically, consistency is exactly what I want. It was a sewer, sure (who is denying it?), but he was funneling in the really industrial grade waste. That's the part he so honestly leaves out.

But maybe I'm afraid of letting him live out his truth, where he was but a helpless chick nestled in a bottomless sewer. It's just to bright and true of a truth for me. I cower in it's illuminating purity. I'm just another intolerant, bigot wrapped up in my own Alethephobia, moralizing about the lives of others to shelter myself from ever paying attention to my own unbearable imperfections.

Or maybe I just enjoy calling out empty, sell-serving BS brazenly marketed as "truth" when I see it. Doesn't really have to be an either/or situation.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

Jeebus! This whole forum is dedicated to showing that cycling is a sewer of doping yet whenever LA even hnts at the truth, all the haters forget everything about the prevalence of doping and attack the idea that everyone WAS on drugs. Show some consistency.

Ironically, consistency is exactly what I want. It was a sewer, sure (who is denying it?), but he was funneling in the really industrial grade waste. That's the part he so honestly leaves out.

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much (not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest). Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it then it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much. Not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest. Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

LA was not using HGH after 1996. He was not doped all season like Hamilton, who was doped to the gills for the Ardennes, the Giro, the Tour, the Olympics, the Vuelta, and races in between. LA doped to accomplish his goal of winning the Tour; that is all he had to do. The list of substances the Spanish teams had their riders on was on an entirely different level than what Ferrari had his riders using.

You have been listening too much to Tygart's fairy tales about Lance "forcing" people to dope. It is crap. No one pushed others to dope. The necessity was self evident, and people made their own decisions. Riders like Bassons did not quit because of LA; they quit because their own teammates wanted them out.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much. Not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest. Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

Exactly. The problem with Lance is that he wasn't just playing the system and adapting well to the conditions imposed on him by the corruption and doping of the sport. He wasn't simply doing what everyone else was doing. Rather, he was a very active protagonist in developing and sustaining the corruption and doping culture. He wasn't a victim of the system, he was an integral part of the system.

In the aftermath of Festina, he was integral to bringing about the second wave of doping. He didn't just quietly get on with doing his best under the omerta and happened to come out on top in the big races. He bullied clean riders, he used his influence and contacts in the UCI to quash positive tests, he used his power to buy exclusive access to the best doping doctor, and he effectively set up his own media arm, backed by rabid lawyers, to hound anyone who dared criticized him.

Yet, even now, he's trying to paint the picture that it was a level playing field, where he was just doing what was necessary to compete.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

You have been listening too much to Tygart's fairy tales about Lance "forcing" people to dope. It is crap. No one pushed others to dope. The necessity was self evident, and people made their own decisions. Riders like Bassons did not quit because of LA; they quit because their own teammates wanted them out.

LOLZ. He quit HGH in '96, then? Seems really plausible. HWMNBN surely paid more than the rest for a lesser programe but got more out of it because you can't beat old-fashioned hard work, can you?

But the real jewel in your argument isn't that. Nah, it's that people made their own decisions when it comes to the others who were threatened and had fired and attempted to have black-balled (it's can't possibly be his fault if other people complied to those requests now, can it?). Free will is absolute. But yet when it comes to one rider in particular the truth was that the sport was an unassailable sewer and the decision was made for him (not only to dope, but to attempt to perpetuate and protect doping). Free will is not merely an illusion but a fantasy. And then you ask for consistency. Good God. Escher would be proud.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much. Not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest. Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

Exactly. The problem with Lance is that he wasn't just playing the system and adapting well to the conditions imposed on him by the corruption and doping of the sport. He wasn't simply doing what everyone else was doing. Rather, he was a very active protagonist in developing and sustaining the corruption and doping culture. He wasn't a victim of the system, he was an integral part of the system.

In the aftermath of Festina, he was integral to bringing about the second wave of doping. He didn't just quietly get on with doing his best under the omerta and happened to come out on top in the big races. He bullied clean riders, he used his influence and contacts in the UCI to quash positive tests, he used his power to buy exclusive access to the best doping doctor, and he effectively set up his own media arm, backed by rabid lawyers, to hound anyone who dared criticized him.

Yet, even now, he's trying to paint the picture that it was a level playing field, where he was just doing what was necessary to compete.

Oh, brother. The second wave of doping? ROTFL. There was no "second wave" of doping. There is one continuous flood that began one hundred and thirty years ago. The tide never went out. There has never been a respite. Festina did nothing to inhibit it. You are listening to a Betsy Andreu's "blame everything on Lance" morality tale where everyone was about to give up doping but the evil Lance Armstrong forced everyone to continue. It is laughable.

The playing field was as level as it has always been. Everyone was free to purchase the doping aid that fit their budget in the same way teams today are free to purchase the aerodynamic testing they can afford. All sports are like that. Those with more money have an advantage. It makes no difference whether you are buying coaches, training facilities, athletes, drugs, or marginal gains.

I especially like how we are supposed to feel sorry that those who went out of their way to pick a fight with Armstrong got the fight they were seeking. We are supposed to feel sorry for the crocodile tears of Betsy Andreu? She is more of a vindictive sociopath than LA ever was. While Lance is trying to move on, she is still at it.

 

[carton]

I especially like how we are supposed to feel sorry that those who went out of their way to pick a fight with Armstrong got the fight they were seeking. We are supposed to feel sorry for the crocodile tears of Betsy Andreu? She is more of a vindictive sociopath than LA ever was. While Lance is trying to move on, she is still at it.

I'm crying. Poor guy. Really. He's just trying to move on. Find his place in the world. And we're all keeping him from living his truth. Betsy, come on, he just called you every name in the book, black balled your husband, used you as a prop in his lame apology tour. Get over it! So what if insists that you a liar. Can't you see he is just a lost little boy who had a dream to score with a string of not-completely-dissimilar-looking-women. He made some mistakes, but don't we all? Stopping at nothing to live out your dream is something to be admired. Sure, he lied upon the graves of dead cancer patients. But who hasn't done that a few hundred times? Who are we to judge him for that? Only God will judge us. Wrongdoing is just a fascistic concept made up by moralistic sociopaths who would deny a man his happiness because some misguided notion that punishment can deter misconduct and some naive belief that objective truth is something worth striving for.

 

[topt]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much. Not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest. Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

Exactly. The problem with Lance is that he wasn't just playing the system and adapting well to the conditions imposed on him by the corruption and doping of the sport. He wasn't simply doing what everyone else was doing. Rather, he was a very active protagonist in developing and sustaining the corruption and doping culture. He wasn't a victim of the system, he was an integral part of the system.

In the aftermath of Festina, he was integral to bringing about the second wave of doping. He didn't just quietly get on with doing his best under the omerta and happened to come out on top in the big races. He bullied clean riders, he used his influence and contacts in the UCI to quash positive tests, he used his power to buy exclusive access to the best doping doctor, and he effectively set up his own media arm, backed by rabid lawyers, to hound anyone who dared criticized him.

Yet, even now, he's trying to paint the picture that it was a level playing field, where he was just doing what was necessary to compete.

Oh, brother. The second wave of doping? ROTFL. There was no "second wave" of doping. There is one continuous flood that began one hundred and thirty years ago. The tide never went out. There has never been a respite. Festina did nothing to inhibit it. You are listening to a Betsy Andreu's "blame everything on Lance" morality tale where everyone was about to give up doping but the evil Lance Armstrong forced everyone to continue. It is laughable.

The playing field was as level as it has always been. Everyone was free to purchase the doping aid that fit their budget in the same way teams today are free to purchase the aerodynamic testing they can afford. All sports are like that. Those with more money have an advantage. It makes no difference whether you are buying coaches, training facilities, athletes, drugs, or marginal gains.

I especially like how we are supposed to feel sorry that those who went out of their way to pick a fight with Armstrong got the fight they were seeking. We are supposed to feel sorry for the crocodile tears of Betsy Andreu? She is more of a vindictive sociopath than LA ever was. While Lance is trying to move on, she is still at it.

Yeah we are; for her, for Emma O'Reilly, Walsh, Lemond,..... for all that cross path with this sociopath that you are defending.

 

[MikeS369]

Re: Re:

Huh? LA was doping less than the other riders. He was not using HGH. He was not using artificial hemoglobin. He was not doped all season long. If you want to talk about industrial waste then let's talk about the Spanish teams. Those teams doped more than any other.

Umm, he was on HGH. He was doped all season long. Where are you getting this? He has admitted as much. Not 09'-10' but if you believe that, we'll I've got a bridge over the East River that might pique your interest. Although, sure, maybe if he admitted it may actually not be true. It's HWMNBN we're talking about. But I think it's on the reasoned decision as well, if you'd rather go on that.

Also, and the key point here, he was pushing other riders to take more drugs, while he was enforcing omerta more than anyone. He was not the extorted, he was not even a mere foot solider. He was a freaking capo, if not the capo di tutt'i capi. His share of the spoils was greater than all the other shares put together, in so far as individuals go.

LA was not using HGH after 1996. He was not doped all season like Hamilton, who was doped to the gills for the Ardennes, the Giro, the Tour, the Olympics, the Vuelta, and races in between. LA doped to accomplish his goal of winning the Tour; that is all he had to do. The list of substances the Spanish teams had their riders on was on an entirely different level than what Ferrari had his riders using.

You have been listening too much to Tygart's fairy tales about Lance "forcing" people to dope. It is crap. No one pushed others to dope. The necessity was self evident, and people made their own decisions. Riders like Bassons did not quit because of LA; they quit because their own teammates wanted them out.

This has to be a joke.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

Yeah we are; for her, for Emma O'Reilly, Walsh, Lemond,..... for all that cross path with this sociopath that you are defending.

LeMond? The guy who attacks those who doped a decade after he retired while he maintains omerta for those who supposedly stole wins from him during his career. That LeMond? Let's hear LeMond say a single word about doped riders who competed against him instead of doing public appearances with them. The only thing that concerns LeMond is those who take the public spotlight off him.

And Walsh: The man who wrote the autobiographies of dopers like Kelly, Roche, and Radcliffe, which he still defends, and has been the chief propagandist for Sky, Wiggins, and Froome? The Walsh that spent years attacking all who questioned the ridiculous performances of Sky? That Walsh? It appears LA's big mistake was not paying him to write a book.

O'Reilly charged money to sell out a friend. 'Null said.

 

[topt]

yeah, all this people THE sociopath tried to destroy cause they were telling the truth

 

[fmk_RoI]

Ah, the Clinic doing what the Clinic does so well: having the same conversation for the millionth time.

- LA is the epitome of evil!
- Others were worse.
- No!
- Yes
- No!
- Yes
- No!
- Yes

...continues for another 75 pages...