Tour de Pologne 2.WT 31/07 - 06/08

Fetisoff · Aug 4, 2011

jobiwan said:
That was an epic stage, but I don't think we'll see Sagan repeat that success tomorrow.

We must also remember that last year in Stage 6, the legend rose up and claimed victory:

Alas, TGBM decided to let others have his glory in Poland, and so someone else must celebrate his excellency tomorrow.

I think Scarponi takes the stage, and Martin the GC.

Not saying that he will, however given the peloton's inability/unwillingness to really put the pressure up, I would not be surprised if he managed to walk away with an overall win when this is all said and done.

For some reason, I don't see Scarponi taking the stage tomorrow. I also see DiLuca trying and failing miserably, hopefully he'll fail early enough so that his lieutenant Caruso might actually do something...As for actual stage winner, hard to call - I'll go out on a limb and say someone like a Nocentini for a stage, Sagan to lose the overall to Martin, but only by a few sec., so it will be close on the final stage with the time bonuses....

Mellow Velo · Aug 4, 2011

Task_Force said:
doubt they are going that high tomorrow..

As Fetisoff has already pointed out, LA clearly meant 3500 vertical metres of climbing, since he's close to the mark with his total.
I reckon he's under sold it by a couple of hundred metres, though. Maybe even close to 4000 metres uphill, some of it fairly steep, too.

If they all sit around, like today, Sagan should survive with relative ease. If not and the better climbers kick off early, he could struggle.

Anonymous · Aug 4, 2011

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkcnc6_tour-of-poland-stage-5_sport

Reverend_T_Preedy · Aug 4, 2011

theyoungest said:
How could he possibly dominate races more than Gilbert does? Jump away, let himself get caught, and jump away again, just for the fun of it?

I meant more races, and different types if races.

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

and how do you see that happening?

Gilbert won Omloop het Volk twice and podiummed Gent Wevelgem and the Tour of Flanders.. he could probably win those races as well.
Plus Gilbert won 1-week stage races such as the Tour of Belgiam and the Ster ZLM Tour, and he coud easily win the ENECO Tour next week.

How is Sagan capable of winning more/versatile stages?? Please do explain

Reverend_T_Preedy · Aug 4, 2011

Zinoviev Letter said:
How is calling him a promising prospect rather than a current star disrespectful? It's true.

As far as tomorrow is concerned, either the climbers attack hard and don't look back or Sagan will win. Nibali's ride today made it very clear that Sagan was talking down his chances and that he is serious about winning. He can't climb with a peak form Martin or Scarponi if they put it all on the line, but if they ride tempo for too long they'll find him hanging on.

I was refering the ones sayig he's riding just to get points for the Worlds.

jobiwan · Aug 4, 2011

Evidently the first nine riders to finish got a 3 second gap to the rest of the field, so with the 10 second bonus + the 3 seconds Sagan has a 20 second lead over Martin now.

1 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 18:08:51
2 Marco Marcato (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:15
3 Romain Feillu (Fra) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:17
4 Daniel Martin (Irl) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:00:20
5 Luca Paolini (Ita) Katusha Team 0:00:23
6 Peter Kennaugh (GBr) Sky Procycling
7 Tomasz Marczynski (Pol) CCC Polsat Polkowice 0:00:26
8 Jan Bakelandts (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
9 Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Leopard Trek
10 Sergey Lagutin (Uzb) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
11 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale
12 Bartosz Huzarski (Pol) Poland
13 Enrico Gasparotto (Ita) Pro Team Astana
14 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD
15 Christophe Riblon (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale

Reverend_T_Preedy · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
and how do you see that happening?

Gilbert won Omloop het Volk twice and podiummed Gent Wevelgem and the Tour of Flanders.. he could probably win those races as well.
Plus Gilbert won 1-week stage races such as the Tour of Belgiam and the Ster ZLM Tour, and he coud easily win the ENECO Tour next week.

How is Sagan capable of winning more/versatile stages?? Please do explain

Just my opinion really. Jut think he's a better sprinter on flat stages and potentially a better climber. I'm not for one minute saying Gilbert isn't versatile or a great rider (he's probably my favourite rider at the moment) but I just like what I see in Sagan. I compared him to Gilbert because I see some similarities.

I may end up very wrong and I'll happily hold my hands up and admit I was wrong if that's the case but, hey, that's what's great about opinions. Everyone's are different.

Mambo95 · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
How is Sagan capable of winning more/versatile stages?? Please do explain

Sagan can sprint. Gilbert can't really.

Task_Force · Aug 4, 2011

Fetisoff said:
I'm sure he means there's a total of 3500 meters of climbing on the stage.

Btw stage 3 of this year's tour de suisse there was almost 3000 m of climbing, and Sagan won. (Big downhill run to the finish, not a MTF however)

yeah that was an epic win, but he also was in front then and not with the peleton.. doubt they will let him go on an attack this time

.. so i would be surprised if holds on to his leadersjersey tomorrow..

i do like surprises though

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

1. [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark THR 3h38'32" 80
2. [BEL] GILBERT Philippe OLO 50
3. [ESP] ROJAS GIL Jose Joaquin MOV 35
4. [FRA] GALLOPIN Tony COF 25
5. [GBR] THOMAS Geraint SKY 15
6. [GER] GREIPEL Andre OLO 10
7. [FRA] HINAULT Sébastien ALM 5
8. [FRA] BONNET William FDJ 3
9. [ITA] OSS Daniel LIQ 2
10. [NOR] HUSHOVD Thor GRM 1

Yup, Gilbert can't really sprint. You're absolutely right

Kwibus · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
1. [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark THR 3h38'32" 80
2. [BEL] GILBERT Philippe OLO 50
3. [ESP] ROJAS GIL Jose Joaquin MOV 35
4. [FRA] GALLOPIN Tony COF 25
5. [GBR] THOMAS Geraint SKY 15
6. [GER] GREIPEL Andre OLO 10
7. [FRA] HINAULT Sébastien ALM 5
8. [FRA] BONNET William FDJ 3
9. [ITA] OSS Daniel LIQ 2
10. [NOR] HUSHOVD Thor GRM 1

Yup, Gilbert can't really sprint. You're absolutely right

Still, Sagan is the better sprinter.
Gilbert is the better puncheur by far right now.

We'll see how Sagan will develop.

will10 · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
1. [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark THR 3h38'32" 80
2. [BEL] GILBERT Philippe OLO 50
3. [ESP] ROJAS GIL Jose Joaquin MOV 35
4. [FRA] GALLOPIN Tony COF 25
5. [GBR] THOMAS Geraint SKY 15
6. [GER] GREIPEL Andre OLO 10
7. [FRA] HINAULT Sébastien ALM 5
8. [FRA] BONNET William FDJ 3
9. [ITA] OSS Daniel LIQ 2
10. [NOR] HUSHOVD Thor GRM 1

Yup, Gilbert can't really sprint. You're absolutely right

Not your best example Ruben, that was a messy old sprint. I agree with you though

Mambo95 · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Yup, Gilbert can't really sprint. You're absolutely right

When has Gilbert ever won a bunch sprint? Or a sprint from a group?
Sagan has won plenty.

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

Mambo95 said:
When has Gilbert ever won a bunch sprint? Or a sprint from a group?
Sagan has won plenty.

Surely you are just joking now? Have you even watched cycling the past 5 years? Seriously?

roundabout · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Surely you are just joking now? Have you even watched cycling the past 5 years? Seriously?

To be fair Gilbert's MO is an attack near the finish which makes his run of the results even more impressive.

But yes, he can win sprints but he does need a finish that suits him.

Tuarts · Aug 4, 2011

From memory that was an uphill sprint after a 800ish metre climb where Thomas ended up leading out his future team mate

Was quite impressive too because Cav won without his train (something people claim he can't do). Wasn't it also the stage Greipel claimed Gilbert was riding for the team?

Mambo95 · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Surely you are just joking now? Have you even watched cycling the past 5 years? Seriously?

Yes, I have. Gilbert's style is to jump away near the finish, not sprint in the last 500m. He hardly ever wins like that.
Sagan has beaten proper sprinters in the last 500m often, Gilbert hasn't.

In a sprint, with 500m (flat) to go, Sagan would beat Gilbert nine times out of ten.

You asked how Sagan could win more races than Gilbert - by sprinting is the answer obvious to anyone.

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

Midnightfright · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Gilbert has won or finished podium in plenty of (small) group sprints in his career.
I never claimed he was a good as Sagan, but to say he 'can't really sprint' is completely wrong

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=943
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=1626
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=2044
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=3156
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=3283
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=3918
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=4410
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=4971
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=5548
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=5874
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6227
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6313
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6315
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6793
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6867
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6868
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6869
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6870
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=6871

and i'm only up to 2008 so far... want more?
There are full on peloton sprints against Brown, Davis and co in there which he won?

wait a minute I agree with your sentiments DT but to imply that Brown or Davis are sprinters is.just unfair and wrong.

hrotha · Aug 4, 2011

Maybe you could trim that list down, because the three examples I checked were ridiculous as far as demonstrating Gilbert's bunch sprinting abilities goes.

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

What else do you want to call Brown?
A pure climber who has as constant form crisis?

Dekker_Tifosi · Aug 4, 2011

@Hrotha, the discussion was if Gilbert can sprint at all (even in group sprints), so yes, obviously I include sprints in a group of 2/3/4/5/6

However, most obvious results are the few last ones in Mallorca. But there are plenty like that.

hrotha · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
@Hrotha, the discussion was if Gilbert can sprint at all (even in group sprints), so yes, obviously I include sprints in a group of 2/3/4/5/6

However, most obvious results are the few last ones in Mallorca. But there are plenty like that.

But that's self-evident. Gilbert is relatively fast, everyone will agree, but under normal circumstances he can't contend a real sprint.

Midnightfright · Aug 4, 2011

Dekker_Tifosi said:
What else do you want to call Brown?
A pure climber who has as constant form crisis?

A cycling hooligan would probably be more Appropriate, or a no man lead out. But seriously a good point. I have to say the most impressed I've been with his sprinting is his 2nd to Cav in the tour. With Sagan I wouldn't be surprised if he was successful flat sprinter. He would need to stop starting his sprints from 400m out though.

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Tour de Pologne 2.WT 31/07 - 06/08

Fetisoff

Mellow Velo

Anonymous

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Reverend_T_Preedy

Dekker_Tifosi

Reverend_T_Preedy

jobiwan

Reverend_T_Preedy

Mambo95

Task_Force

Dekker_Tifosi

Kwibus

will10

Mambo95

Dekker_Tifosi

roundabout

Tuarts

Mambo95

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Midnightfright

hrotha

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