Tour de Romandie, April 29th - May 4th

[Sciatic]

Just noticed Lenny has gorgeous eyelashes, but that aside, congrats to the young man!

And it was fun to his eyes open wider when they told him he slso had the leader’s jersey. He had no idea until the interviewer mentioned it.

 

[kingjr]

Climbing style mostly (I also think it's indicative of non-stylish features). You don't see Vingegaard attack by staying seated and spinning a small gear.

Pogacar does that sometimes, too. I don't know if I would regard him less of a natural climber than Vingegaard or Contador.

 

[Sciatic]

I think the term applies to Vingegaard and Contador and not to Froome. But I don't think only being good at climbing is what distinguishes the former two from the latter.

I think another factor is there is no longer as much distinction (and there really hasn’t been since the 1990s) between the best climbers and best all -around GC guys. So know the terms not really a category but a subjective description of a rider’s strength (elite only at climbing) or climbing style.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

And it was fun to his eyes open wider when they told him he slso had the leader’s jersey. He had no idea until the interviewer mentioned it.

Gotta love it when they're young and savor each victory, it's so heartwarming to see.

 

[Netserk]

Pogacar does that sometimes, too. I don't know if I would regard him less of a natural climber than Vingegaard or Contador.

It's not how he does an all-out attack.

But in some aspects I also think he is more comparable to Nibali, more of a middle category visually.

 

[Cycling111]

Pogacar does that sometimes, too. I don't know if I would regard him less of a natural climber than Vingegaard or Contador.

But most of his attacks in TDF against Vingegaard aren´t sitting.

 

[Cookster15]

Watched the last 3.4km. Congrats to Lenny Martinez! Tenacious to hang on and then out-sprint Almeida who seemed the strongest of the two. Almeida to secure the overall in tomorrow's final stage TT.

 

[kingjr]

It's not how he does an all-out attack.

But in some aspects I also think he is more comparable to Nibali, more of a middle category visually.

Was Armstrong more of a natural climber than Pogacar and Nibali? I don't want to belabor this too much, btw, I'm just interested in how people use this term.

 

[Netserk]

Was Armstrong more of a natural climber than Pogacar and Nibali? I don't want to belabor this too much, btw, I'm just interested in how people use this term.

I don't have a very sharp recollection of prime Armstrong, but I guess I'd put him in the same spot as Pogi or between Pogi and Nibali.

 

[kingjr]

But most of his attacks in TDF against Vingegaard aren´t sitting.

Funnily enough, the same applies to Jan Ullrich, for instance, who would probably rank fairly low on nthe natural climber scale for most people. He was of course famous for climbing seated more than most, but his attacks he generally made out of the saddle.

 

[kingjr]

I don't have a very sharp recollection of prime Armstrong, but I guess I'd put him in the same spot as Pogi or between Pogi and Nibali.

Interesting, in my mind he is closer to Contador in that regard.

 

[Netserk]

Funnily enough, the same applies to Jan Ullrich, for instance, who would probably rank fairly low on nthe natural climber scale for most people. He was of course famous for climbing seated more than most, but his attacks he generally made out of the saddle.

But I don't think markers are unchanged over time.

Interesting, in my mind he is closer to Contador in that regard.

Body type (and size) also play a role. I have also for a long time thought that Evenepoel reminded me of Richie Porte, but perhaps no longer as strongly as previously.

 

[YavorD]

Was Armstrong more of a natural climber than Pogacar and Nibali? I don't want to belabor this too much, btw, I'm just interested in how people use this term.

I don't think anyone considered Armstrong climber, let alone natural at 26, so I guess perception can change with the time.

 

[Cookster15]

Interesting, in my mind he is closer to Contador in that regard.

Armstrong would sit in behind his US Postal teammates until the front group was suffering then attack and drop everyone. Contador was a more instinctive climber who usually attacked multiple times on the same mountain and even at long range post his ban. So yes Pogi would be more like Contador than Armstrong.

Jan Ullrich was a highly boosted turbocharged diesel. Just a machine really. More pure talent than Lance but not the head.

 

[Cycling111]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1918685904132055355

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1918685904132055355

I have compared both stages and Adam Yates' time can be considered better because the stage was longer.

2023: 161.6 km

1	YATES Adam	UAE Team Emirates	60	50	10″	4:40:41
2	PINOT Thibaut	Groupama - FDJ	40	30	6″	0:07
3	CARUSO Damiano	Bahrain - Victorious	30	18	4″	0:19

2025: 118.2 km

1	MARTINEZ Lenny	Bahrain - Victorious	60	50		3:43:46
2	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	40	30		,,
3	FORTUNATO Lorenzo	XDS Astana Team	30	18		0:29

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't have a very sharp recollection of prime Armstrong, but I guess I'd put him in the same spot as Pogi or between Pogi and Nibali.

Pre-cancer, Armstrong wasn't a climber at all. That was the big knock on this TdF chances in 1999. People were not expecting such a seismic change in this abilities. 1999 and thereafter, he was a very good climber - prime example was Alpe d'Huez in 2001. I would not put him at Pogi's level in terms of natural climbing ability though.

 

[scribers]

Pre-cancer, Armstrong wasn't a climber at all. That was the big knock on this TdF chances in 1999. People were not expecting such a seismic change in this abilities. 1999 and thereafter, he was a very good climber - prime example was Alpe d'Huez in 2001. I would not put him at Pogi's level in terms of natural climbing ability though.

He was quite good with hills pre-cancer with quite an engine. His body did change with the cancer and it did make a difference with climbing. Then the more professionalized octane changed all things.

I’m having Deja vu to when this forum first started

 

[scribers]

Is it decided remco is not catching the leaders tomorrow for GC? Seems like a compelling watch

 

[Cycling111]

Is it decided remco is not catching the leaders tomorrow for GC? Seems like a compelling watch

Almeida would´ve to wake up sick to lose 1:38 minutes in 17km

1	8	▲7	MARTINEZ Lenny	Bahrain - Victorious	10	6″	16:29:56
2	4	▲2	FORTUNATO Lorenzo	XDS Astana Team		10″	0:02
3	7	▲4	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates - XRG		4″	0:03
4	6	▲2	VINE Jay	UAE Team Emirates - XRG		10″	0:32
5	2	▼3	LECERF Junior	Soudal Quick-Step		4″	0:54
6	14	▲8	RODRÍGUEZ Carlos	INEOS Grenadiers			,,
7	5	▼2	LÓPEZ Juan Pedro	Lidl - Trek			1:06
8	15	▲7	RONDEL Mathys	Tudor Pro Cycling Team			1:37
9	9	-	EVENEPOEL Remco	Soudal Quick-Step			1:41

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Was Armstrong more of a natural climber than Pogacar and Nibali? I don't want to belabor this too much, btw, I'm just interested in how people use this term.

Well for starters Lance was a 70+ kg climber, that's a big difference to Pogacar and Nibali, who are/were around 65kg. Also as has been mentioned he didn't start out as a climber at all, but as a classics guy, a very good one, winning the WC RR at 21. For a natural climber you'd expect him to always have been rather good at climbing, which he wasn't, but also not as bad as people claim sometimes I think.
By riding style he was definitively like a real climber post transformation, so people might have gotten the impression he was a natural at this. Infernal cadence, dancing on the pedals often, hard attacks, pretty explosive on a climb.
Pogacar on the other hand has been an excellent climber all of his career. He does ride like a natural climber as well. He's also won more GT mountain stages than maybe anybody I think. Already. At 26.

 

[Sciatic]

This discussion can’t really be settled because I think people are talking about separate terms. Which are sometimes interchangeable but sometimes not.
Usage/Term #1: a rider who climbs well, performs superbly in the mountains. Key element is performance
Term #2: a rider whose primary characteristic, or the thing they do best at is climbing. It defines who they are on the bike. It is a description of a “type” not solely about performance.

Think of term #2 the way we do with sprinters; there are good, mediocre, and lousy sprinters. Regardless it still describes their category as a cyclist. Of course some riders are so superb that they beat the specialists in several categories. Thus we have another category: all-arounders.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is it decided remco is not catching the leaders tomorrow for GC? Seems like a compelling watch

His chances to catch riders for GC
Rondel, Lopez 100%
Lecerf, Fortunato 75%
Rodriguez 50%
Martinez, Vine 10%
Almeida 1%

Numbers pulled from my bum. But i have a relatively accurate bum.

 

[Sciatic]

His chances to catch riders for GC
Rondel, Lopez 100%
Lecerf, Fortunato 75%
Rodriguez 50%
Martinez, Vine 10%
Almeida 1%

Numbers pulled from my bum. But i have a relatively accurate bum.

That’s certainly helpful for squat toilets, not so sure about it for TT results

 

[scribers]

His chances to catch riders for GC
Rondel, Lopez 100%
Lecerf, Fortunato 75%
Rodriguez 50%
Martinez, Vine 10%
Almeida 1%

Numbers pulled from my bum. But i have a relatively accurate bum.

From your bum to my ears (in the least weird way possible)

 

[Cycling111]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1918781784046608759

View: https://x.com/dudasun/status/1918781784046608759?t=pwLWyKzNxI05enV2Ojjt8Q&s=19