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@Berniece
No i don't buy that, there is some sort of a switch, on where Jonas is miles ahead, only on races when he doesn't participate against Rogla.
@Krzysztof_O
If 82km solo defence will be needed, then so be it. That would likely make him GOAT solo defender, would need to check.
No i don't buy that, there is some sort of a switch, on where Jonas is miles ahead, only on races when he doesn't participate against Rogla.
@Krzysztof_O
If 82km solo defence will be needed, then so be it. That would likely make him GOAT solo defender, would need to check.
It had nothing to do with perfect knowledge of the stage and every corner, and the fact that it was already the 16th stage so fatigue weighted in for a lot of people except the best GT riders?
Those long range defences may not go well in the Tour.
It's like prior to Dauphiné this was accepted as a very hard stage race on paper and had deep field involved. After Dauphiné, on where Rogla won, obviously ToS became a much tougher stage race, on where the UAE duo has beaten inconsistent Skjelmose and Bernal still on the comeback. Ergo Adam, João, Pogi and even Jonas, they are all in a different league. That is when Jonas wins any stage race he enters, by as you say a mile, then against Rogla he loses an ITT convincingly, that is against Rogla, that is supposedly in a really bad shape.
You have to admit that is a bit peculiar. Maybe the explanation is much more simple, that is Rogla is up there if not a level above. We'll see at the Tour. Maybe Rogla will prove to be rather equal, maybe he will get dropped, or he will drop others. Some of you it seems will really struggle to spin this again if Rogla doesn't get dropped, at least by Adam.
Who knows, as maybe that is exactly what is needed to crack somebody like Pogi or Jonas.
I don't understand what you are trying to say anymore. It's not worth the discussion. If you want to believe he's still the best 1-week stage racer, fine.
Let's not forget @CyclistAbi also said Roglic is the GOAT of stage racing.
Slovenia is full of GOATs.
Well, Tour is just around the corner, so lets first tackle the most prestigious GT in the whole universe.
@tobydawq
Possibly. Still, Tour is just around the corner and lets see on where Rogla stacks. Will it be somewhere behind Adam, somewhere in between or possibly ahead of the supposedly untouchable duo. Some of you claim the duo is out of reach, some suggest doms of the duo are out of reach too. Personally i don't buy that. In my opinion believing Jonas coming from such injuries and Pogi having Giro in his legs, they don't stand a chance against Rogla. We'll see.
Possibly. Still, Tour is just around the corner and lets see on where Rogla stacks. Will it be somewhere behind Adam, somewhere in between or possibly ahead of the supposedly untouchable duo. Some of you claim the duo is out of reach, some suggest doms of the duo are out of reach too. Personally i don't buy that. In my opinion believing Jonas coming from such injuries and Pogi having Giro in his legs, they don't stand a chance against Rogla. We'll see.
So by your logic, Roglic wouldn’t be the best stage racer if he beats an injured Vingegaard and Giro legged Pogacar since they won’t be at their best?
@SHAD0W93
You didn't read everything i wrote and that is Rogla already is the best stage racer. If other riders focused on other goals or are injured, for sure there will be plenty of opportunities left in the future, Rogla isn't going anywhere. On top of that i feel that we are now going in circles and as such i feel this attitude camp is more or less completed, we did our job good and thanks guys for participating. Now some relaxation and family time is at play and see you at the Tour.
P.S. Well, maybe in between we will have to comment on apparel, presentation, team selection ... The important stuff.
You didn't read everything i wrote and that is Rogla already is the best stage racer. If other riders focused on other goals or are injured, for sure there will be plenty of opportunities left in the future, Rogla isn't going anywhere. On top of that i feel that we are now going in circles and as such i feel this attitude camp is more or less completed, we did our job good and thanks guys for participating. Now some relaxation and family time is at play and see you at the Tour.
P.S. Well, maybe in between we will have to comment on apparel, presentation, team selection ... The important stuff.
Oh I read what you wrote, you said they don’t stand a chance with these issues. So obviously without them they would stand a chance or more, so by your logic a Roglic win would have an asterisk. Don’t forget you also think Roglic is the best monument, one day, Olympic, cobbled and hilly classic, Worlds, and sprinter. The fact posters aren’t calling Roglic the GOAT and instead the fraud Pogacar must be annoying.
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@SHAD0W93
Actually no. That is all you now, rationalising aloud, trying to, on why Rogla can't be the best stage racer, winning the Tour 2024. That is because you don't recognise the fact he already is one. As for calling other cyclists frauds, personally i am really grateful to Pogi, Jonas and Remco, among others, they really give validation to Rogla and to his achievements. And on top of that they all seem like nice people.
Actually no. That is all you now, rationalising aloud, trying to, on why Rogla can't be the best stage racer, winning the Tour 2024. That is because you don't recognise the fact he already is one. As for calling other cyclists frauds, personally i am really grateful to Pogi, Jonas and Remco, among others, they really give validation to Rogla and to his achievements. And on top of that they all seem like nice people.
Again, Pogacar has beaten Thomas by five and eleven minutes the last two times he faced him in a Grand Tour. Roglic beat him by 14 seconds in the Giro.
How is it possible to miss the logical conclusion to that? [[content deleted]
Also, if the only relevant measure is the number of Grand Tour wins, then Froome is the best Grand Tour rider currently.
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@tobydawq
No point in widening this debate, things like winning margin. I am perfectly OK with on how Rogla won Giro 2023 and as far as i am concerned it would be rather special, to win the Tour 2024 in such way too. Said that there is nothing wrong with on how Pogi won Giro 2024 either. I don't find one approach grand and another one not. We could try to make some conclusions, solely based on winning margin, but all of that would go to shambles anyway, at the start of the Tour 2024.
No point in widening this debate, things like winning margin. I am perfectly OK with on how Rogla won Giro 2023 and as far as i am concerned it would be rather special, to win the Tour 2024 in such way too. Said that there is nothing wrong with on how Pogi won Giro 2024 either. I don't find one approach grand and another one not. We could try to make some conclusions, solely based on winning margin, but all of that would go to shambles anyway, at the start of the Tour 2024.
@Berniece
Widening debate comment went into direction we already came full circle in this discussion. So if you feel some more general debate should be opened, about something, feel free to do that. AFAIK there was a debate about winning margin opened on this forum a while back. As for general debate, state of things in between main GC favourites, likely best if we do that in some thread dedicated to Tour 2024. In this ToS thread, at the end, we compared ToS to Dauphiné. Beyond that i feel it woudl become too much out of topic.
Widening debate comment went into direction we already came full circle in this discussion. So if you feel some more general debate should be opened, about something, feel free to do that. AFAIK there was a debate about winning margin opened on this forum a while back. As for general debate, state of things in between main GC favourites, likely best if we do that in some thread dedicated to Tour 2024. In this ToS thread, at the end, we compared ToS to Dauphiné. Beyond that i feel it woudl become too much out of topic.
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