Tour Match Up: Gesink v Van Den Broeck

[theyoungest]

Even though I like Gesink and I voted for him based on growth potential and his seemingly improved TT abilities it would be quite funny if Jurgen finishes higher than him - which is surely in the realm of possibility - seeing the overwhelming victory for Gesink on this poll.

It would be even funnier if VDB gets, say, 14th, and Gesink 15th. But at least one of them will probably make the top-10.

Personally I'm hoping for TGBM to beat them both

 

[The Hitch]

Such a shame Boterkoek and Dutchies have to start fighting in every thread about Dutchies/Belgians

What is Boterkoek. Is it a Pistolero nickname?

 

[kurtinsc]

Even though I like Gesink and I voted for him based on growth potential and his seemingly improved TT abilities it would be quite funny if Jurgen finishes higher than him - which is surely in the realm of possibility - seeing the overwhelming victory for Gesink on this poll.

More then likely if JVB does finish higher, it will be due to some flub on Gesink's part. He'll lose contact on a descent and drop a minute to a group JVB is in, or he'll flub an ITT, or a mechanical/bad placement at the beginning of a key climb.

I've kind of grown to expect something like that from Gesink. Even at T-A this year, he flubbed away precious seconds to give the GC to Evans. In the Ardennes he seemed to be placed poorly to start some key climbs as well.

I do think he's more talented. But I still predicted Van den Broeck to finish higher... just because I expect SOMETHING to happen to Gesink.

Given that prediction... that won't prevent people from saying Gesink is still the better rider and just got unlucky.

 

[Spine Concept]

More then likely if JVB does finish higher, it will be due to some flub on Gesink's part. He'll lose contact on a descent and drop a minute to a group JVB is in, or he'll flub an ITT, or a mechanical/bad placement at the beginning of a key climb.

I've kind of grown to expect something like that from Gesink. Even at T-A this year, he flubbed away precious seconds to give the GC to Evans. In the Ardennes he seemed to be placed poorly to start some key climbs as well.

I do think he's more talented. But I still predicted Van den Broeck to finish higher... just because I expect SOMETHING to happen to Gesink.

Given that prediction... that won't prevent people from saying Gesink is still the better rider and just got unlucky.

Completely agree.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

How the hell was JvdB the 3rd best climber in that Dauphine?

1. [FRA] VOGONDY Nicolas BTL 6h03'25" 40
2. [FRA] SICARD Romain EUS 12" 25
3. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 15" 15
4. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 15" 10
5. [EST] TAARAMÄE Rein COF 18" 5
6. [FRA] ROLLAND Pierre BTL 18" 3
7. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 18" 2

1. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 4h31'01" 40
2. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 25
3. [POL] SZMYD Sylwester LIQ 17" 15
4. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme SAU 24" 10
5. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 40" 5

5. [USA] VAN GARDEREN Tejay THR 40" 5
6. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 40" 3
7. [FRA] RIBLON Christophe ALM 40" 2
8. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 40" 1
9. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme SAU 40" 0
10. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 40" 0

Weird way of counting. El Pistoletje.
The hardest mountain stage (Ventoux) he finished pretty far from Szmyd and Coppel... I call that unimpressive
But appearently you do think that's awesome

 

[Michielveedeebee]

What is Boterkoek. Is it a Pistolero nickname?

Boomcie says El pistolet and I prefer boterkoeken on a Sundaymorning, hence El Boterkoek

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Congrats. You've just managed to find an analogy that makes even less sense than the previous ones.

That's why I suggest, the next time El Pistoletje comes with one of his unfollowable connections, we just post this

 

[The Hitch]

Boomcie says El pistolet and I prefer boterkoeken on a Sundaymorning, hence El Boterkoek

What is a botorkoeken? Also does "El Pistolet" have some other meaning?

That's why I suggest, the next time El Pistoletje comes with one of his unfollowable connections, we just post this

This reminds me of Spartacus. Which reminds me of when Pisti said that calling Cancellara Spartacus was an insult because Spartacus was apparently an idiot or something

 

[kurtinsc]

How the hell was JvdB the 3rd best climber in that Dauphine?

1. [FRA] VOGONDY Nicolas BTL 6h03'25" 40
2. [FRA] SICARD Romain EUS 12" 25
3. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 15" 15
4. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 15" 10
5. [EST] TAARAMÄE Rein COF 18" 5
6. [FRA] ROLLAND Pierre BTL 18" 3
7. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 18" 2

1. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 4h31'01" 40
2. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 25
3. [POL] SZMYD Sylwester LIQ 17" 15
4. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme SAU 24" 10
5. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 40" 5

5. [USA] VAN GARDEREN Tejay THR 40" 5
6. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 40" 3
7. [FRA] RIBLON Christophe ALM 40" 2
8. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 40" 1
9. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme SAU 40" 0
10. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 40" 0

Weird way of counting. El Pistoletje.
The hardest mountain stage (Ventoux) he finished pretty far from Szmyd and Coppel... I call that unimpressive
But appearently you do think that's awesome

It's pretty simple logic... the same logic used by people stating that Gesink climbed 18 seconds faster then VDB (or whatever it was) in the tour.

If you take the final results and subtract differences from the time trials, Van Den Broeck was 1m 8 seconds faster then Van Garderen, 9 seconds faster then Coppel, 40 seconds faster then Vogondy and 57 seconds faster then Riblon. I'm fairly certain nobody else he beat was close enough that TT's accounted for all of it.

Perhaps there were some bonus seconds or flat stage gaps that helped... I'm not sure.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the only real test was ventoux, and finishing behind szmyd and coppel is for me unimpressive.

The field in that dauphine was very weak. So finish 4th behind van garderen and just in front of coppel I call unimpressive.
In my opinion there is no way to make that impressive, unless you replace Van den Broeck with, for instance, Bart de Clerq, or Seeldraeyers, then it would be impressive.

Get it?

 

[kurtinsc]

the only real test was ventoux, and finishing behind szmyd and coppel is for me unimpressive.

The field in that dauphine was very weak. So finish 4th behind van garderen and just in front of coppel I call unimpressive.
In my opinion there is no way to make that impressive, unless you replace Van den Broeck with, for instance, Bart de Clerq, or Seeldraeyers, then it would be impressive.

Get it?

Well impressive or not... when you take out the time trials he finished the rest of the course in the 3rd fastest time. For most races without cobbles or eschelons... that would indicate you're the 3rd best climber.

Just because you find the fact unimpressive doesn't make it less of a fact I think.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ventoux wasn't even there that year. Pretty obvious you didn't watch it.

Field at Tour de Suisse wasn't impressive seeing as only Gesink was peaking for it. Get it?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well impressive or not... when you take out the time trials he finished the rest of the course in the 3rd fastest time. For most races without cobbles or eschelons... that would indicate you're the 3rd best climber.

Just because you find the fact unimpressive doesn't make it less of a fact I think.

the only real tests in those race where the tt and the ventoux, it's not like he was the 3rd best in the other climbing stages either

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Ventoux wasn't even there. Pretty obvious you didn't watch it.

Field at Tour de Suisse wasn't impressive seeing as only Gesink was peaking for it. Get it?

wel whatever the climb was, i did watch the race, the climb where he was dropped by coppel and szmyd, done.

 

[El Pistolero]

And where were they on the other climbs?

If you take the time of all mountain stages, VDB comes up with the third fastest time. I really don't see how you can find that hard to comprehend.

 

[kurtinsc]

the only real tests in those race where the tt and the ventoux, it's not like he was the 3rd best in the other climbing stages either

He finished with the 3rd fastes time when you subtract ITT's.

Others may have beaten him on some climbs, but they lost enough on others that they didnt' outclimb him for the entire race.

Stetina outclimbed Kreuziger on the Zonculon. That doesn't mean he outclimbed him in the Giro.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

And where were they on the other climbs?

If you take the time of all mountain stages, VDB comes up with the third fastest time. I really don't see how you can find that hard to comprehend.

I don't say i find that hard to comprehend.

He did perform consistently, but like I said the competing field was very weak and finishing 7th, 5th and 5th (from the favorites, I don't count early breakaways in front) in the mountain stages and 4th in the GC in that sort field, is unimpressive for a TDF contendor

Period. I don't know why you can't understand that I find that unimpressive.

 

[El Pistolero]

There's only one Tour de France contender that did better. And guess what, he won the Tour.

Weak field huh It had the number 1, 3,4 and 5 from that year's Tour de France. But keep pretending it was a weak field.

Meanwhile at the Tour de Suisse

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

1. [SLO] BRAJKOVIC Janez RSH 28h06'28" 240
2. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 01'41" 180
3. [USA] VAN GARDEREN Tejay THR 02'41" 145
4. [BEL] VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen OLO 03'46" 132
5. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme SAU 04'17" 120
6. [FRA] VOGONDY Nicolas BTL 04'23" 108
7. [FRA] RIBLON Christophe ALM 04'23" 96
8. [FRA] ROLLAND Pierre BTL 06'16" 85
9. [USA] HORNER Chris RSH 06'20" 74
10. [POL] SZMYD Sylwester LIQ 06'57" 63
11. [FRA] SICARD Romain EUS 08'09" 55
12. [BLR] SAMOILAU Branislau QST 08'19" 49
13. [GER] KNEES Christian MRM 08'41" 44
14. [FRA] LE MEVEL Christophe FDJ 09'14" 39
15. [SLO] KOREN Kristjan LIQ 10'19" 34

How is this not a weak field?
Seriously
You are a joke. Last years Dauphiné had a really weak field, certainly compared to Suisse and Dauphiné 2009,08,07 etcetera

 

[El Pistolero]

1 Fränk Schleck (LUX) Team Saxo Bank 35h 02' 00"
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Team RadioShack + 12"
3 Jakob Fuglsang (DEN) Team Saxo Bank + 17"
4 Steve Morabito (SUI) BMC Racing Team + 23"
5 Robert Gesink (NED) Rabobank + 27"
6 Tony Martin (GER) Team HTC-Columbia + 27″
7 Rigoberto Urán (COL) Caisse d'Epargne + 33"
8 Andreas Klöden (GER) Team RadioShack + 48"
9 Joaquim Rodríguez (ESP) Team Katusha + 1' 09"
10 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack + 1' 14

How is this field any better? Fuglsang, Armstrong and Morabito in front of Gesink. What did these guys do in 2010? Tony Martin the great climber almost overtook Gesink

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

14.

SCHLECK Andy SAX 01'57" 39 16.

KREUZIGER Roman LIQ 02'05" 31
Schlecks, Gesink, Rodriguez, Klöden, Lepheimer, Kreuziger, T. Martin, Uran
vs
Contador, Van den Broeck, Horner and Brajkovic

Guess what?
Oh yeah, bye.

 

[El Pistolero]

Really, using Andy Schleck's performance outside July as an argument? You know when your argument fails if you do that.

Kloden, Leipheimer, Armstrong, etc did nothing in 2010. They stunk all year. They did nothing in the Tour. Tony Martin, what a climber.

I guess Horner is better than Andy Schleck then A lot better if we look at ToC this year.

Uran, seriously? Has never gotten a top 30 in a GT.

Besides the number 1,3,4 and 5 of the Tour 2010 were at DL 2010. That's not a weak field buddy.

 

[kurtinsc]

14.

SCHLECK Andy SAX 01'57" 39 16.

KREUZIGER Roman LIQ 02'05" 31
Schlecks, Gesink, Rodriguez, Klöden, Lepheimer, Kreuziger, T. Martin, Uran
vs
Contador, Van den Broeck, Horner and Brajkovic

Guess what?
Oh yeah, bye.

Samuel Sanchez rode the DL.

Denis Menchov rode the DL.



That means the DL had the riders who finished 1st (Contador), 3rd (Menchov), 4th (Sanchez), 5th (Van den Broeck) and 10th (Horner) in the Tour.

4 of the top 5 Tour finishers doesn't make the competition level good in your mind?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The difference is between the actual guys who CONTESTED it.
Not finished outside the top 20 like Sanchez

Face it, we are never going to agree on this one. The field was stronger in Suisse. The riding of Vandenbroeck in Dauphine was unimpressive for me. Period.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yet Andy Schleck is counted in by you?