Tour Match Up: Gesink v Van Den Broeck

[kurtinsc]

The difference is between the actual guys who CONTESTED it.
Not finished outside the top 20 like Sanchez

Face it, we are never going to agree on this one. The field was stronger in Suisse. The riding of Vandenbroeck in Dauphine was unimpressive for me. Period.

You're trying to argue two sides of the same coin here and it just doesn't work.

The top 4 in the TDS were DNF, 23rd, 50th and 51st in the GC at the Tour. The next two after Gesink were 137th and DNS.

At the DL, the top 3 were 43rd, 1st, DNS. The next 3 after VDB were DNS, 88th and 28th.

Niether race had guys fighting for the win who were high up at the Tour the following month... aside from Gesink, VDB and Contador.

The two races had similar fields... aside from a top Tour guy (in Contador) was fighting for the win in one while no top Tour guy was in the other.


I really have no problem with people thinking Gesink is better. I think he's better too in a physical sense... he just has a greater tendency to make dumb mistakes. But trying to degrade VDB's results and prop up Gesink's by calling the DL field weak and the TDS field strong when both were very similar just seems like a weak flame attempt.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I'm not trying to degrade VDB's results compared to Gesink (as if that is needed anyway, Gesink's results outside the Tour have always been stronger)

Just look at the effin top 10 and the Dauphine's one is much weaker. Cmon even a fool can see
Even the general tendency on all cycling websites and forums was that the Suisse field was much stronger than the Dauphine. It's a simple fact.

What did Brajkovic, Van Garderen, Coppel, Vogondy, Riblon, Rolland and Szmyd do in the general classifcation of the Tour de France? Oh yeah right, half of them didn't ride and the other half failed.
But really, I'm not going to discuss in this topic anymore with a bunch of deluded VDB2 fans.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not a fact really. All the big names went to the dauphine. Now that's a fact

None of the top 10 in Suisse did anything of note at the Tour besides Gesink and Jrod. I'm sorry but Armstrong coming second proves enough to me.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

What is a botorkoeken? Also does "El Pistolet" have some other meaning?

Have you never been to Belgium ?

that's a pistolet

this is a boterkoek

 

[kurtinsc]

I'm not trying to degrade VDB's results compared to Gesink (as if that is needed anyway, Gesink's results outside the Tour have always been stronger)

Just look at the effin top 10 and the Dauphine's one is much weaker. Cmon even a fool can see

Top 10 at DL finishes with top 10's at GT's in 2010: Contador (1st at Tour), VDB (5th at Tour), Horner (10th at Tour)

Top 10 at TDS finishes at GT's in 2010: Frank Schleck (5th at Vuelta), Gesink (6th at Tour), Rodriguez (4th at Vuelta, 8th at Tour).

I'm sorry... when it comes to guys who actually performed at GT's last year... there's very little difference. It feels like you're overrating guys like Uran/Martin/Fuglsang/Morabito and underrating guys like Van Garderen/Coppel/Riblon/Szmyd.

 

[kurtinsc]

I'm not trying to degrade VDB's results compared to Gesink (as if that is needed anyway, Gesink's results outside the Tour have always been stronger)

Just look at the effin top 10 and the Dauphine's one is much weaker. Cmon even a fool can see
Even the general tendency on all cycling websites and forums was that the Suisse field was much stronger than the Dauphine. It's a simple fact.

What did Brajkovic, Van Garderen, Coppel, Vogondy, Riblon, Rolland and Szmyd do in the general classifcation of the Tour de France? Oh yeah right, half of them didn't ride and the other half failed.
But really, I'm not going to discuss in this topic anymore with a bunch of deluded VDB2 fans.

Several people seem to be taking the opposite side of you on this "fact" and nobody's really jumping in for support.

The "field" contained the people who finished 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th at the Tour... but you want to discount some of them for not finishing high enough in the final rankings and only look at the top 10.

But each race only had 3 guys in the top 10 who finished in the top 10 of a GT in 2010 as well.

Simply put... both races had similar fields of GT contenders with a similar number of top guys giving some effort. You're trying to divide into black and white two races which are gray. And you aren't getting support in trying to do so.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

In terms of palmarès the biggest names(in the top 10 of GC that is) obviously were in the TdS but most of them underperformed throughout the 2010 season.
As such one can say the fields were more or less equally strong... But to say one field was clearly stronger than the other is not true at all, even Devolder climbed decently in TdS

 

[Spine Concept]

In terms of palmarès the biggest names(in the top 10 of GC that is) obviously were in the TdS but most of them underperformed throughout the 2010 season.
As such one can say the fields were more or less equally strong... But to say one field was clearly stronger than the other is not true at all, even Devolder climbed decently in TdS

This. Discussion over.

 

[greenedge]

I'm sorry... when it comes to guys who actually performed at GT's last year... there's very little difference. It feels like you're overrating guys like Uran/Martin/Fuglsang/Morabito and underrating guys like Van Garderen/Coppel/Riblon/Szmyd.

The riders above are as not as big names like Frank Schleck/ Contador which you mentioned. For them different schedules work and they might not want to expose themselves as a favourite in a race packed with other GC dudes.

TJVG and Coppel both have potential especially Coppel. Coppel will hopefully finish top 15 this tour whereas TJVG will probably not be starting. Love Syzmd too but he shall probably be nothing more than domestique deluxe, which he is very good at. Morabito has potential too but is more solid not attacking. Uran has huge potential for the future in the Igor Anton/ JROD mould. Dan Martin will probably just be a short stage racer and Fuglsang is like Szmyd a domestique-deluxe albeit a bit younger. These dudes are all good solid riders who could be leaders but their is a big difference between them and riders like Contador.

Uran/ Coppel and TJVG did not go to a GT last yr either.

I think the D-L will be better this yr as it contains stages in the TDF

 

[Parrulo]

The riders above are as not as big names like Frank Schleck/ Contador which you mentioned. For them different schedules work and they might not want to expose themselves as a favourite in a race packed with other GC dudes.

TJVG and Coppel both have potential especially Coppel. Coppel will hopefully finish top 15 this tour whereas TJVG will probably not be starting. Love Syzmd too but he shall probably be nothing more than domestique deluxe, which he is very good at. Morabito has potential too but is more solid not attacking. Uran has huge potential for the future in the Igor Anton/ JROD mould. Dan Martin will probably just be a short stage racer and Fuglsang is like Szmyd a domestique-deluxe albeit a bit younger. These dudes are all good solid riders who could be leaders but their is a big difference between them and riders like Contador.

Uran/ Coppel and TJVG did not go to a GT last yr either.

I think the D-L will be better this yr as it contains stages in the TDF

i am pretty sure the giro and the vuelta are GT's

 

[MajorTom]

Gesink all the way

 

[Spine Concept]

I must say - again - that I'm surprised at the lopsided poll results. This is solely based on the fact that Jurgen did, after all, finish above Gesink in last year's TDF. Obviously I can understand why one would fancy Gesink this year - having voted for him myself - but still, 65 to 16...

 

[Bala Verde]

Have you never been to Belgium ?

that's a pistolet

this is a boterkoek

I prefer whole-grain

 

[Michielveedeebee]

VdB is very ambitious says his goal is podium this year.
And Sergeant says that the overall of the Dauphiné would be possible for him http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/110603_vandenbroeck_traint_sneeuw
Very high expectations imo

 

[El Pistolero]

VdB is very ambitious says his goal is podium this year.
And Sergeant says that the overall of the Dauphiné would be possible for him http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/110603_vandenbroeck_traint_sneeuw
Very high expectations imo

Better than saying your going for a tenth spot in the GC.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

VdB is very ambitious says his goal is podium this year.
And Sergeant says that the overall of the Dauphiné would be possible for him http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/110603_vandenbroeck_traint_sneeuw
Very high expectations imo

I'll seriously have any type of Belgian avatar or sig if he takes podium. for an entire year.
Assuming AC doesn't win (cause I have said if he wins I'll take an rebellion avatar )

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I'll seriously have any type of Belgian avatar or sig if he takes podium. for an entire year.
Assuming AC doesn't win (cause I have said if he wins I'll take an rebellion avatar )

and I can choose it ?

 

[Bala Verde]

and I can choose it ?

Eddy Wally?

 

[El Pistolero]

How about the president of Europe?

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Eddy Wally?

Or Nicole and Hugo

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

and I can choose it ?

be my guest

 

[Michielveedeebee]

be my guest

Allriiiight

 

[Matty_Tucks]

Gesink has had an alright season so far, but really haven't seen that much from Van Der Broeck. I think its a bit too early for both for top three - Contador and Schleck will take top two with Basso, Wiggins, Evans on for the other...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Gesink has had an alright season so far, but really haven't seen that much from Van Der Broeck. I think its a bit too early for both for top three - Contador and Schleck will take top two with Basso, Wiggins, Evans on for the other...

hilarious

 

[greenedge]

I want a refund on my vote. Was TGBM up at first???