Tour Match Up: Gesink v Van Den Broeck

[Spine Concept]

To be fair, it seems to me that there is a larger anti-VDB vibe coming from certain Dutch posters than the other way around for Gesink. If Gesink doesn't do well, there is always an explanation, if VDB does worse than Gesink, it is simply because the latter is more talented.

I admit that I haven't been a poster on here long enough to know the ''power'' balance in this regard. The only thing I noticed from the very start is that practically every time a discussion ends up in a Dutch-Belgian argument. There are about as many Belgian posters on this forum as there are Dutch ones from what I've seen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I simply do not mind calling people out on things they say that aren't well-thought out. That's what a forum is about, right? Discussing things you have a different view on.

As far as excuses go, it goes both ways. None of the parties involved can pretend they take the moral high ground. They all come up with excuses to defend their favorite rider's underwhelming performances. I've seen it way too many times for you to try and convince me differently.

In an other topic (the one about the top 10 for TdF), one poster (non-Belgian i presume) doesn't put Gesink in the top 10, and everybody goes bonkers and this goes on for page after page. On the other hand, when VDB is left out, nobody cares. Just look at this very poll result and the comments by people in this topic. How "easy" this poll is, because obviously, Gesink is so much better.

I have regarded this particular bit already in one of my earlier posts. I am not Dutch, so I do not hate everything Belgian. I have stated many times that I like VDB2 and I hope he does well both in the Dauphine and the Tour. I have also stated that it wouldn't suprise me if VDB2 finishes higher than Gesink again this Tour, why would it? He did it last year, no reason he couldn't do it again. Furthermore, I was astounded at the lopsided results of this poll since it could certainly happen again that VDB2 finishes higher. I thought it would be more balanced out. Thus, it's not only the Dutchies that have that opinion, just that they're not afraid to speak up about it.

As for the "bad luck" Gesink always has. Where was he yesterday when the peleton broke apart? In the second group. Where was VDB? In the first. Bad luck or coincidence? Hardly. VDB always rides in front and has to put a lot of effort into that. Last year there wasn't one TdF mountain stage where he wasn't sqandering his powers by constantly riding with his face in the wind, out of fear that riding further back, he might risk falling more, or missing an attack. Maybe he's a dumb ***, but if he rode like many others do, he could greatly improve his classification, but also risk crashing or getting behind at the same time.

I do not know if you heard about Gesink's ambitions for this year's Dauphine, however he's not exactly targeting it. In the second stage that could have been derived from his far from characteristic efforts on the climb. Let's be honest here, he's never been that bad climbing before, even as a neo-pro. There are excuses and there are facts. If he rides the same way at the Tour and there is still denial about his regress in abilities than it would be making up excuses. The Tour is his target this year and it seems he has slowly worked to really peak there this year a la Schleck as opposed to previous years.

Thus, he won't exactly miss any sleep from missing the break in the second stage I assure you. Other than that, I agree with you that he needs to stay in front more. There are many times when I have been perplexed by his refusal to do so. No arguments there. That would improve his bad positioning at the start of climbs as well. Let's hope he's learned that this time around.

The fact of the matter is, they are both talented riders (maybe on different skill levels), but with a different style (not only during the race, but the preparation to it as well). vdb also happens to be a late bloomer, Gesink has been expected to do well for years. But with neither riders, you would bet your house that he will finish before the other. If this year in the TdF Gesink ends up 4th and VDB ends up 8th, i sure as hell won't be surprised. But neither would i be if VDB ends up 3rd and Gesink 5th.

I completely agree with this, as I have stated so myself. No comments here really except that now you're probably gonna get flamed for not saying Gesink could end up 3rd and VDB 5th.

 

[Spine Concept]

Bingo!!!!!! Intelligent post.

Bingo!!!!! Hypocritical post (again). We all know about your tweet regarding VDB2 winning stage 2.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Bingo!!!!! Hypocritical post (again). We all know about your tweet regarding VDB2 winning stage 2.

I don't like van den Broeck so that makes me a hypocrite?

 

[Spine Concept]

I don't like van den Broeck so that makes me a hypocrite?

No. What makes you a hypocrite is that you ''look down'' on the Dutchies for not being fond of VDB2 when you are in the same boat. That, my friend is considered hypocrisy, yes. You tend to give the Dutch heat for defending Gesink all the time while you do the same with Evans. That is hypocrisy. Am I wrong here? Admittedly, I haven't been here that long. However, in that short period I have seen this many times.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I admit that I haven't been a poster on here long enough to know the ''power'' balance in this regard. The only thing I noticed from the very start is that practically every time a discussion ends up in a Dutch-Belgian argument. There are about as many Belgian posters on this forum as there are Dutch ones from what I've seen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I simply do not mind calling people out on things they say that aren't well-thought out. That's what a forum is about, right? Discussing things you have a different view on.

Let's make that an El Boterkoek vs Dutchies argument

 

[Spine Concept]

Let's make that an El Boterkoek vs Dutchies argument

He's like the Belgian mob boss, right? In the same way that D_T and Bavarian are the Dutch and German mob bosses, respectively.

 

[boomcie]

He's like the Belgian mob boss, right? In the same way that D_T and Bavarian are the Dutch and German mob bosses, respectively.

Aren't mob bosses supposed to be respected?

 

[Michielveedeebee]

He's like the Belgian mob boss, right? In the same way that D_T and Bavarian are the Dutch and German mob bosses, respectively.

Well no I'm the Belgian mob boss (I started the Belgian mafia )

But it's true that both Boterkoek and the Dutchies (and sometimes Bayerische Reiter) attack other riders/eachother waay too often

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Aren't mob bosses supposed to be respected?

that's why I'm da baws

 

[Spine Concept]

Aren't mob bosses supposed to be respected?

By their minions yes. Other's either pretend to respect him or blatantly don't. Are you saying these mob bosses are not respected?

 

[Spine Concept]

that's why I'm da baws

There's always a boss of all bosses.

 

[Spine Concept]

Well no I'm the Belgian mob boss (I started the Belgian mafia )

But it's true that both Boterkoek and the Dutchies (and sometimes Bayerische Reiter) attack other riders/eachother waay too often

Really? I didn't know that you were the founder of the Belgian mafia. Thus, all of this is your fault?

I agree on the attacks though. It's crazy stuff sometimes. I just do not like it if they spew things without thinking it through just to satisfy their need to appear better than the other.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

No. What makes you a hypocrite is that you ''look down'' on the Dutchies for not being fond of VDB2 when you are in the same boat. That, my friend is considered hypocrisy, yes. You tend to give the Dutch heat for defending Gesink all the time while you do the same with Evans. That is hypocrisy. Am I wrong here? Admittedly, I haven't been here that long. However, in that short period I have seen this many times.

I have not been in the forum long either, so don't know much about any undercurrents that may exist. But if you want to label someone a hypocrite you should present all the facts to back it up. But just don't lay a terd out there and expect everyone to buy it. The fact I see here is ACF admits not caring much for VDB2, same as the Dutchies. But it is a bit of an extrapolation to go from that to saying he looks down on the Dutchies for that reason. So what is the evidence that shows ACF is down on Dutchies just because Dutchies are not fond of VDB2?

As for either side defending their favorites, I don't know. All I know is that sometimes sound defenses could be made, and other times weak defenses could be made. A weak defense is more likely to be questioned. So the hypocrisy claim does not hold any water without specific examples. If you don't have examples or don't care to look them up, then it's best to not say anything at all.

 

[boomcie]

By their minions yes. Other's either pretend to respect him or blatantly don't. Are you saying these mob bosses are not respected?

Respect is a very broad term.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Really? I didn't know that you were the founder of the Belgian mafia. Thus, all of this is your fault?

I agree on the attacks though. It's crazy stuff sometimes. I just do not like it if they spew things without thinking it through just to satisfy their need to appear better than the other.

completely agree

The Belgian mafia came long after the Dutchies and Cadelmafia so no, not my fault ^^

 

[Spine Concept]

I have not been in the forum long either, so don't know much about any undercurrents that may exist. But if you want to label someone a hypocrite you should present all the facts to back it up. But just don't lay a terd out there and expect everyone to buy it. The fact I see here is ACF admits not caring much for VDB2, same as the Dutchies. But it is a bit of an extrapolation to go from that to saying he looks down on the Dutchies for that reason. So what is the evidence that shows ACF is down on Dutchies just because Dutchies are not fond of VDB2?

As for either side defending their favorites, I don't know. All I know is that sometimes sound defenses could be made, and other times weak defenses could be made. A weak defense is more likely to be questioned. So the hypocrisy claim does not hold any water without specific examples. If you don't have examples or don't care to look them up, then it's best to not say anything at all.

Had you gone just one page back you would have seen that he praised one poster's remark that there is more negative vibes coming from the Dutch posters regarding VDB2 than the other way around and that Gesink cannot do wrong in their eyes. Though this might be true, he jumped at the opportunity to agree with this - mostly to annoy the Dutchies - while doing the same thing himself. Call it what you want, but to me that's hypocrisy.
For the record, I do not take things out of thin air and spew it around. I always try my best to have all the facts before I say something. Everyone in here will tell you that he is practically the same. There's no need to dig up examples to prove this as it's a well known fact. That's the strongest defense there is, because with one or two examples people could say I'm exaggerating by using isolated events. Now thát would be extrapolation. Everyone wouldn't have to buy that it's a terd if they already know for a fact it is one now would they?
This isn't a court session. This is a forum, where most posters know each other and their vices. If it concerned one particular thing a poster said, if others (choose to) disagree with the above or if I was trying to convince you in particular than I could agree with what you are saying. Not in this case though.

 

[auscyclefan94]

No. What makes you a hypocrite is that you ''look down'' on the Dutchies for not being fond of VDB2 when you are in the same boat. That, my friend is considered hypocrisy, yes. You tend to give the Dutch heat for defending Gesink all the time while you do the same with Evans. That is hypocrisy. Am I wrong here? Admittedly, I haven't been here that long. However, in that short period I have seen this many times.

I hardly look down on them. That wasn't my point. So I give the Dutchies heat about giving to VDB? That is my first post about that specifically! You don't think the Dutch posters ever do that to me?

The fact that you have posted that you haven't been here long is your get out card when people disagree with you.

I have not been in the forum long either, so don't know much about any undercurrents that may exist. But if you want to label someone a hypocrite you should present all the facts to back it up. But just don't lay a terd out there and expect everyone to buy it. The fact I see here is ACF admits not caring much for VDB2, same as the Dutchies. But it is a bit of an extrapolation to go from that to saying he looks down on the Dutchies for that reason. So what is the evidence that shows ACF is down on Dutchies just because Dutchies are not fond of VDB2?

As for either side defending their favorites, I don't know. All I know is that sometimes sound defenses could be made, and other times weak defenses could be made. A weak defense is more likely to be questioned. So the hypocrisy claim does not hold any water without specific examples. If you don't have examples or don't care to look them up, then it's best to not say anything at all.

Thank you.

Had you gone just one page back you would have seen that he praised one poster's remark that there is more negative vibes coming from the Dutch posters regarding VDB2 than the other way around and that Gesink cannot do wrong in their eyes. Though this might be true, he jumped at the opportunity to agree with this - mostly to annoy the Dutchies - while doing the same thing himself. Call it what you want, but to me that's hypocrisy.
For the record, I do not take things out of thin air and spew it around. I always try my best to have all the facts before I say something. Everyone in here will tell you that he is practically the same.

Yes, maybe you should observe some other threads where the same Dutch posters say the exact same thing to me. Some of them will tell me that I continually defend Evans and can't admit when he doesn't do anything wrong. I disagree but they will still make that statement. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to assume what is happening. How do you know if I was trying to annoy the Dutch posters.? It is my opinon that some of them over protect them no matter what. Why didn't you call that poster I agreed with on that comment? I didn't jump at the opportunity to agree with this but I find it annoying that people can't admit to doing something yet they will accuse the other person of doing it.

 

[Spine Concept]

I hardly look down on them. That wasn't my point. So I give the Dutchies heat about giving to VDB? That is my first post about that specifically! You don't think the Dutch posters ever do that to me?

The fact that you have posted that you haven't been here long is your get out card when people disagree with you.

The fact that you are using the old ''they did it to me so I did it to them'' argument speaks for itself in terms of hypocrisy. Furthermore, that post is not the sole reference for my opinion on your hypocrisy. I used that as an example of it.

Again, you want to sail around the facts to make you feel better.
I haven't been posting here for long, what can anyone do about that? What a pointless argument. I never used that to get out of anything either, am I not standing behind what I say when people have disagreed with me? Am I ''getting away'' when people disagree with me? Go and read the last couple of pages and then open your mouth. I only say that sometimes because I might be wrong about a particular thing, so I leave it open to be corrected. Unlike your pompous bigoted self.

Yes, maybe you should observe some other threads where the same Dutch posters say the exact same thing to me. Some of them will tell me that I continually defend Evans and can't admit when he doesn't do anything wrong. I disagree but they will still make that statement. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to assume what is happening. How do you know if I was trying to annoy the Dutch posters.? It is my opinon that some of them over protect them no matter what. Why didn't you call that poster I agreed with on that comment? I didn't jump at the opportunity to agree with this but I find it annoying that people can't admit to doing something yet they will accuse the other person of doing it.

Yes. I'm sure all of the Dutchies are out to get you, clog in hands.
I know you were trying to annoy the Dutchies because you tend to do that, taking jabs at them whenever you can. Moreover, this is a thread where a lot of Dutchies in particular are posting and a topic they feel strongly about. The facts don't exactly favor you.

Last but not least I did call that poster on his comments. If you actually informed yourself a bit before making baseless accusations you might have known this. I told him that it goes both ways as far as I know. Both parties tend to come up with excuses to defend their favorite rider's underwhelming performances.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Think whatever you like but you are clearly wrong.

 

[Spine Concept]

Think whatever you like but you are clearly wrong.

Good argument. I see you're grasping at straws. Give it a rest.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Good argument. I see you're grasping at straws. Give it a rest.

No, I couldn't be bothered to argue with such a moronic thing on your behalf therefore I am not going to respond to you anymore on the issue. If you feel an absoulte urge to sort the issue out the please send me a PM. If not, lets get back on topic.

 

[El Pistolero]

“Today’s profile is the flattest of this year’s race and that will probably result in a victory for one of the contenders for the green jersey. Of course, the terrain decides the nature of the route, and in order to get to the Pyrenees from Normandy we have to cross an area where there are no real difficulties. Because of the nature of the stages that have been completed so far, the yellow jersey will not be on the shoulders of one of the race’s favourites, but it will still be in the possession of a strong team because one of those stages will have been the team time trial. It might perhaps be a Rabobank rider that has it, like Gesink, or an HTC rider, like Martin. But if they are truly determined on contending for the overall title they will no doubt want to pass it on to someone else as quickly as possible. But if someone like Gilbert has it, his Omega Pharma-Lotto team will do all they can to hang to it.” - Prudhomme

Let the trolling begin

Sorry, found this to be funny. It's Prudhomme's opinion about stage 7.

 

[Spine Concept]

No, I couldn't be bothered to argue with such a moronic thing on your behalf therefore I am not going to respond to you anymore on the issue. If you feel an absoulte urge to sort the issue out the please send me a PM. If not, lets get back on topic.

You couldn't be bothered, yet you were. Sigh. Why would I have an urge to sort it out? I simply disagree with you and put up my arguments sustaining my opinion. The one who might have an urge to sort out this ''moronic'' thing is you, so PM me if anything. I'm also done with this.

------------------------------

I think VDB looks pretty good for another mountain stage win. Don't know what to think of Wiggins' chances of winning the whole thing to be honest. Before the ITT I had my money on VDB2 for the win. The pundits are saying that Wiggins has better control over weight this time around. With his apparent great form we will see in the upcoming mountain stages what effect this truly has on his performances.
Gesink will reportedly target one mountain stage at the Dauphine, though I'm not certain which one. With his apparent form however, he will figure but I don't think he'll win.

 

[DenisMenchov]

“Today’s profile is the flattest of this year’s race and that will probably result in a victory for one of the contenders for the green jersey. Of course, the terrain decides the nature of the route, and in order to get to the Pyrenees from Normandy we have to cross an area where there are no real difficulties. Because of the nature of the stages that have been completed so far, the yellow jersey will not be on the shoulders of one of the race’s favourites, but it will still be in the possession of a strong team because one of those stages will have been the team time trial. It might perhaps be a Rabobank rider that has it, like Gesink, or an HTC rider, like Martin. But if they are truly determined on contending for the overall title they will no doubt want to pass it on to someone else as quickly as possible. But if someone like Gilbert has it, his Omega Pharma-Lotto team will do all they can to hang to it.” - Prudhomme

Let the trolling begin

Sorry, found this to be funny. It's Prudhomme's opinion about stage 7.

OK, I`m VDB fan, but I think Poudhomme didn`t want to say that Gesink is not THE favourite









to crash and abandon.

 

[cineteq]

A big difference between Gesing & van der Broeck (especially this year), is that Gesing is really methodical, and serious about his goals (TdF).

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ges...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0