Tour Match Up: Gesink v Van Den Broeck

[theyoungest]

I don't think that anyone except Dekker_T still cares about this discussion, let's wait for the Tour for Gesink to show what he's made of. I too have the feeling he can do much better than last year, but he's still got to do it. Not just in theory, but in real life.

And yes, El Pistolero truly is the chauvinistic side of everything Wuyts or Vannieuwkerke ever said turned to flesh.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ugh....your beloved Contador again. Please refrain yourself from this discussion, because you're not objective at any stretch of the imagination. I'm no Dutchie but really you belittle every accomplishment a Dutch rider made, knowing this because I've been lurking this for quite some time now.

No, I don't. It's D_T who's belittling Nibali's accomplishments here actually

And I'm sorry for making a correct analogy. I'll never do it again!

But anyway in theory Gesink is a better climber than VDB. But what's it worth on the road? We'll see soon enough. Did I just belittle poor bald Gesink again?

You Dutchies really can't take a lot of criticism it seems. If I say Gesink falls a lot in GTs it's as if I'm belittling him. If I say Nibali was sevent in the Tour at age 2009 then it was only so because it was a pedelback Tour Yeah, if that's not belittling then I don't know what is. It seems you can only belittle cyclists that aren't Dutch here.

 

[boomcie]

They will both ride the Vuelta so there you will see. Wanna bet? Even if Gesink does the Tour/Vuelta double he'll be better than a rested Nibali there

It would only make a difference if Gesink won that Vuelta, hence pulling himself level with Nibali.

There are a few riders that are/were really good but won't be remembered because they did not win big races. Even Joseba Beloki won't be remembered in a few years.

That's what puts Nibali ahead of Gesink for many people I guess... The proven ability to win a GT.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

And yet even if Gesink or any Dutch rider would win big races / stages, I'm confident you would find some way to belittle them. I'll save the quotes next time there is some performance of a dutch rider and you comment on it. To confront you with your own behaviour which you now deny.

Wasn't it you who's 1st comment after Omloop het Nieuwsblad that the dutch just 'won another pyrrhic victory"?? That could indicate 'belittling' to most people you know?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It would only make a difference if Gesink won that Vuelta, hence pulling himself level with Nibali.

There are a few riders that are/were really good but won't be remembered because they did not win big races. Even Joseba Beloki won't be remembered in a few years.

That's what puts Nibali ahead of Gesink for many people I guess... The proven ability to win a GT.

So you'd also say Peter Velits is ahead and a better rider than (name an actual good rider here) because he podiummed at the vuelta?
Vuelta 2010 was still one of the weakest fields ever in a GT

 

[El Pistolero]

And yet even if Gesink or any Dutch rider would win big races / stages, I'm confident you would find some way to belittle them. I'll save the quotes next time there is some performance of a dutch rider and you comment on it. To confront you with your own behaviour which you now deny.

Wasn't it you who's 1st comment after Omloop het Nieuwsblad that the dutch just 'won another pyrrhic victory"?? That could indicate 'belittling' to most people you know?

Wasn't it you who said Langeveld could never win the Ronde while I said he could(and finished fifth and Nuyens who didn't enter the Omloop and isn't much better than Langeveld was first?). I still stand by that comment. The first and second of that Ronde didn't enter the Omloop because they didn't want to peak too soon. If Gilbert or Boonen wins the Omloop next year I'll say just the same.

Yeah, did I belittle Kruisdingie or Wout Pouls? Nope They were impressive. But you constantly belittle people like Frank Schleck and Vincenzo Nibali. And pretty much every cyclist that gets beaten by a Dutchie.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Stop finger pointing everytime anyone puts a mirror up to you, it's childish

BTw just by calling him 'kruisdingie' you are already belittling him. Point proven.

 

[boomcie]

It would only make a difference if Gesink won that Vuelta, hence pulling himself level with Nibali.

There are a few riders that are/were really good but won't be remembered because they did not win big races. Even Joseba Beloki won't be remembered in a few years.

That's what puts Nibali ahead of Gesink for many people I guess... The proven ability to win a GT.

So you'd also say Peter Velits is ahead and a better rider than (name an actual good rider here) because he podiummed at the vuelta?
Vuelta 2010 was still one of the weakest fields ever in a GT

How is that not the exact opposite of what I said? I say Velits will be remembered by no one.

 

[El Pistolero]

Stop finger pointing everytime anyone puts a mirror up to you, it's childish

BTw just by calling him 'kruisdingie' you are already belittling him. Point proven.

Or I don't know how to correctly write his name?

I'm just stating your hypocrisy. Seems you can't handle it.

I really fail to see how I'm such a biased Belgian when I don't even think VDB is a better climber than Gesink I just wouldn't be surprised if he actually did manage to get in front of him in the GC like last year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If anyone here should never start about hypocrisie it's you... again, stop the finger pointing and put a mirror up for yourself maybe? Then look into it.

It's not me and some dutchies, it's even total strangers who just confirmed to you you are belittling dutch riders and everything they do. Doesn't that tell you anything??

 

[El Pistolero]

And where did I belittle Gesink here?

I just said he crashes a lot in a GT thus it wouldn't be a surprise to see someone like Jurgen van den Broeck finish infront of him in a GC. It's even an option in the poll. While it is there as a joke, it's partly true that Gesink crashes a lot in a GT. Deny it all you want, but the statistics during his GTs speak for itself. I'm not even one of the 14 that voted for VDB
What's the use of the poll if you only want to hear one answer? Don't be so childish and if someone thinks VDB will outclimb Gesink than he has every right to think just that. But of course you'll start gloating in July when the opposite happened and bring up old posts and make fun of them like you always do Very mature of you. Bravo...

You really can't stand any form of criticism when it's about Gesink. You might be the best climber in the world, but when you have something happening to you over a course of 3 weeks no one will ever find out just how good you are(Soler, Igor Anton, Cuddles, and to a lesser extent also Gesink)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

But this is exactly the problem you are exaggerating gesinks problems with falling and bike handling. He is not in the category of Soler/Anton etc...

More in the category of Evans, pure bad luck.

 

[El Pistolero]

And where did I belittle Gesink here?

(Soler, Igor Anton, Cuddles, and to a lesser extent also Gesink)

And I quote my self again.

I'm not over exaggerating. Trust me, I know it isn't as bad as Anton and Soler. That's why I said to a lesser extent.

It's my opinion about Gesink. I find him more unreliable then for example a VDB who hasn't had much bad luck in GTs so far(Tour 2009 was of course à la Cuddles)

If both come out of the Tour without any bad luck it's probably Gesink that will end up in front. But if I have to pick the one that's most likely to hit the deck during the Tour then it's most likely Gesink. I also think he's more prone to injuries than some other cyclists(or he really is extremely unlucky to break something everytime he hits the deck)

Menchov falls all the time yet doesn't seem to break anything. Ever.

I don't see how I'm belittling Gesink here Or any other Dutchies for that matter(except Lars Boom )

 

[MisterX]

This discussion is pointless and childish, from both sides.And besides Tejay will be better than both, anyway.

 

[El Pistolero]

The topic is about who is better in the Tour: VDB or Gesink.

If you think that discussion is pointless and childish then why are you posting in this thread? Of the said subject? Besides, Tejay has nothing to do with this thread, anyway. Nobody is forcing you to post here in a thread about which one of the 2 is better.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

really? In AGR, he set an immense pace for like 10k, deep in the finale. Last year, he was only at the front for 1 or 2k (still very good he was there after 260k though).

Last year he was with phille at the cauberg, this year phille had to chase himself.

The only thing I'm different than you guys is that I don't see how the **** people think the likes of Nibali or worse, even Kreuziger, could possible be better than Gesink for instance.

Nibbles: Twice 3rd in the Giro + 1 vuelta
Gesink: 7th in Tour + 6th twice in Vuelta
==> Nibbles performs better
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingRider.asp?year=2010 This proves it

 

[theyoungest]

This discussion is pointless and childish, from both sides.And besides Tejay will be better than both, anyway.

Yes, Tejay's first GT went great

 

[boomcie]

This discussion is pointless and childish, from both sides.And besides Tejay will be better than both, anyway.

Yeah, it's kind of funny that your two only posts in the forum are both related to that childish discussion.

Profiling yourself as what exactly?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

seems michelveedebee's memory is off. Gesink finished 6th in the Tour not 7th. And finished 7th in his first vuelta not 6th.

And ofcourse the time he finished 6th in the Vuelta that wasn't his rightful place, that would have been 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

seems michelveedebee's memory is off. Gesink finished 6th in the Tour not 7th. And finished 7th in his first vuelta not 6th.

And ofcourse the time he finished 6th in the Vuelta that wasn't his rightful place, that would have been 2nd or 3rd.

Aah wikipedia has lied to me http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingRider.asp?year=2010 this proves last year nibbles performed better though

 

[Flamin]

Last year he was with phille at the cauberg, this year phille had to chase himself.

Because Vanendert was Phil's last guy this year, while Jurgen already sacrificed himself before the Keutenberg.

 

[boomcie]

Because Vanendert was Phil's last guy this year, while Jurgen already sacrificed himself after the Eyserbosweg (I think).

Because he didn't feel good enough.

 

[El Pistolero]

Because Vanendert was Phil's last guy this year, while Jurgen already sacrificed himself before the Keutenberg.

Yup, he was impressive at AGR, but bad at LBL(although he did work there) and FW.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Because Vanendert was Phil's last guy this year, while Jurgen already sacrificed himself before the Keutenberg.

True, but still he sucked at PN

 

[Flamin]

Because he didn't feel good enough.

Oh well, he did an awesome job on the flat part whatsoever, after 235k. (I remember Gesink telling after the race he couldn't attack in the finale because he was cooked, so)