Tour of Britain 2014 - 07/09 - 14/09 (2.HC)

[Akuryo]

He was very strong but circumstances helped him a lot

Of course cirmumstances helped a few times, but they still got it done with 17 different riders. Look at (for instance) Cannondale, who rely to 80% on Sagan for a victory. Steppers got Cavendish for sprints, Martin for time trials, the monster trio of Boonen, Stybar and Terpstra for cobbles, Kwiatkowski for hilly stages/races and Uran for the mountains. They are a danger on every single day of the year.

Yes, I know: Budget helps a lot, but look at BMC in comparison and what they achieve(d). They also have the guys to do it, but took maybe half the victories of Quickstep.

Edit: Just counted: OPQS has now 61 road race vicoties, BMC with a similar budget got 23.

 

[theyoungest]

19 seconds should definitely be too much to get back.

19 seconds is nothing. Van Baarle, as a pro, has been an okay time trialist, but nothing special. Kwiatkowski should be able to take that time back.

 

[Tournesol]

This race (and i never thought i would ever say this) has been one of my favourite week long stage races of the season,some are saying its because of there being 6 rider teams and no radios but the parcours has contributed too,just a great race,nearly every stage a thriller,can't wait for next year already.

 

[Parker]

This race (and i never thought i would ever say this) has been one of my favourite week long stage races of the season,some are saying its because of there being 6 rider teams and no radios but the parcours has contributed too,just a great race,nearly every stage a thriller,can't wait for next year already.

Yes. I think because Britain doesn't have the giant mountains of some continental races, it can't use them as an easy spectacle and has had to innovate. Small teams certainly helps and is something I am an advocate of. (No radios I'm not convinced is a factor).

 

[damian13ster]

Yes. I think because Britain doesn't have the giant mountains of some continental races, it can't use them as an easy spectacle and has had to innovate. Small teams certainly helps and is something I am an advocate of. (No radios I'm not convinced is a factor).

Yes, hilly races without a long TT does make for a great spectacle. 6 man team since to work brilliantly, bot in Britain and in TdP last season. No idea why they are not used more often.

I think radios should be allowed in the race though. Last two stages would probably have different outcomes if they were allowed.
Without them, the luckiest and not the best (he wasnt even strongest among breakaway) rider might win if Kwiatkowski doesn't make up the time in ITT

 

[Pricey_sky]

What a crash

Just watched it back again, looked like there was a little ramp off line that launched the GB rider head first into the barrier. The guy just went far too quickly for that tight corner, mad crash though! Glad he's ok:


http://postimage.org/

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yes, hilly races without a long TT does make for a great spectacle. 6 man team since to work brilliantly, bot in Britain and in TdP last season. No idea why they are not used more often.

I think radios should be allowed in the race though. Last two stages would probably have different outcomes if they were allowed.
Without them, the luckiest and not the best (he wasnt even strongest among breakaway) rider might win if Kwiatkowski doesn't make up the time in ITT

If Kwia was used to ride without radios in all races, he would have paid much more attention to whats going on in the race and he probably wouldn't have failed here.

One of the biggest issues I have with team radios is the creation of drone like behavior in the peloton. Riders who struggle to make decision etc. We see it all the time. Even "leaders" often looks like they are waiting for somebody to tell them what to do. Race tactics is a skill which needs to come back.

Plus I think team radios are causing considerable safety issues when all the DSs informs a collection of 200 riders to get up to the front before a corner or other critical points. Crash party. Let riders focus on the race rather than a voice in the ear. There will always be crashes in road racing, but team radios simply adds to the misery.

I'm confident the lack of team radios gives the advantage to aggressive and tactical astute riders and thats exactly how it should be.

 

[LittleJo]

Horrible crash. The ITV commentators totally ignored it too.

Not showing Van Baarle's group finishing is inexcusable. Simple as that.

They obviously did some good editing in their highlights programme - Hugh Porter definitely commented on the crash, and then they did switch to Van Baarle's group finishing and Hugh Porter said something like "our TV cameras nearly missed them crossing the line".

 

[damian13ster]

If Kwia was used to ride without radios in all races, he would have paid much more attention to whats going on in the race and he probably wouldn't have failed here.

One of the biggest issues I have with team radios is the creation of drone like behavior in the peloton. Riders who struggle to make decision etc. We see it all the time. Even "leaders" often looks like they are waiting for somebody to tell them what to do. Race tactics is a skill which needs to come back.

Plus I think team radios are causing considerable safety issues when all the DSs informs a collection of 200 riders to get up to the front before a corner or other critical points. Crash party. Let riders focus on the race rather than a voice in the ear. There will always be crashes in road racing, but team radios simply adds to the misery.

I'm confident the lack of team radios gives the advantage to aggressive and tactical astute riders and thats exactly how it should be.

You make a great point here. But no radios whatsoever is a bad idea. You can't expect a rider in Kwiatkowski's situation to memorize gaps to top 100 in GC in order to figure out who is worth chasing and who isnt. So the only solution to that is having a race director update riders on the gaps in the stage, as well as in virtual GC. Would be pretty hard to do though with riders fighting for different goals. So I think neither having team radios or having no radios at all is good solution. Some middle ground needs to be found.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

You make a great point here. But no radios whatsoever is a bad idea. You can't expect a rider in Kwiatkowski's situation to memorize gaps to top 100 in GC in order to figure out who is worth chasing and who isnt. So the only solution to that is having a race director update riders on the gaps in the stage, as well as in virtual GC. Would be pretty hard to do though with riders fighting for different goals. So I think neither having team radios or having no radios at all is good solution. Some middle ground needs to be found.

Of course a rider can't memories all situations, but the skill of understanding and reading a race needs to come back. Some riders are better at it than others. I want to give the advantage to riders with the skill. The team radio often neutralize the skill.

And I'm confident the action on the road will be more dynamic and much more interesting to watch on TV when we minimize the drone like behavior we often see in WT races these days.

Of course good time keeping on the road is needed to give the riders the tools to make good decisions.

Gotta remember the top riders in the past won lots of races and they did it because the were the strongest (physically, mentally and tactically). And they did it without team radios of course.

 

[damian13ster]

I agree with you on that. But how is this time-keeping supposed to be done so that all of the riders have all of the informations required in order to make their decision. I am just afraid that at this point its just not possible wiithout radios.

 

[PeterB]

Without them, the luckiest and not the best (he wasnt even strongest among breakaway) rider might win if Kwiatkowski doesn't make up the time in ITT

Interesting, what makes you say that van Baarle wasn't the strongest among breakaway?

 

[damian13ster]

He didnt win the stage.....

 

[Jagartrott]

Of course a rider can't memories all situations, but the skill of understanding and reading a race needs to come back. Some riders are better at it than others. I want to give the advantage to riders with the skill. The team radio often neutralize the skill.

And I'm confident the action on the road will be more dynamic and much more interesting to watch on TV when we minimize the drone like behavior we often see in WT races these days.

Of course good time keeping on the road is needed to give the riders the tools to make good decisions.

Gotta remember the top riders in the past won lots of races and they did it because the were the strongest (physically, mentally and tactically). And they did it without team radios of course.

You need information though. So a neutral channel with info on time gaps, dangerous situations etc. and no radio instructions from DS should be the best of both worlds, no?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I agree with you on that. But how is this time-keeping supposed to be done so that all of the riders have all of the informations required in order to make their decision. I am just afraid that at this point its just not possible wiithout radios.

How come the strongest rider won in the past without team radios?
Telepathic skills?
Alien?
Seriously, race understanding is a skill.
But, yes time keeping on the road should be a focus area. Improvement is needed.

 

[PeterB]

He didnt win the stage.....

Well,if you watched the stage,you would have seen that Vermote was a passenger in the breakaway,not taking any pulls (quite understandably). It is then no surprise that he was able to attack on one of the hills and distance the rest of the breakaway who were more exhausted. Yet van Baarle and Konovalovas finished just 23 or so seconds behind,despite all previous work they did.That's quite an indicator of their strength.

You can't simply state that the winner was the strongest rider. In bike racing more often tactics play bigger role than strength. And just because someone's favourite rider miscalculated,there is no reason to lessen achievement of his opponent.

 

[theyoungest]

Ignatas Konovalovas ‏@ignatas
Happy for mr ANIMAL on the bike tday @DylanvanBaarle. Strongest man in the break became yellow man in the race! Tottaly deserved. Chapeau

I think it's clear who was the strongest on the day. Vermote just sat on for most of it.

 

[inthepink]

I agree with the points about riders becoming like drones dependent on every directive from the race car....

But there does need to be independnet updates on time gaps...maybe at stragetic points ??

Tactics are one of the more interesting part of bike racing and would like to see the tactically aware have the advantage at times we see those with bike handling skills have on cobbles or those with turn of speed have in sprints etc


But I guess a mixture of situations adds to the spice ...sometimes even the grand tours are predictable

Still smarting that the TT is not televised live

 

[MellowJohnny]

I'm in favour of there being no radios for the Tour of Britain, I think it levels things up for the smaller teams.

 

[liamito]

the tt will not be broadcasted live?

 

[Akuryo]

the tt will not be broadcasted live?

No, they rather show live pictures of a flat stage where nothing will happen until 3k to go

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

It's on now.

Or what? (edit)

 

[nuvolablu]

10'10'' Mullen
4'' better than Dowsett 2011!

Boaro 10'16''

 

[liamito]

It's on now.

Or what? (edit)

which one?

 

[roundabout]

http://www.matsport.fr.php53-23.ord...etape=-1&type=0&menu_live=5&menu=&race=205800