Tour of California 2012

[The Hitch]

Vac is the biggest race outside Europe based on tradition, support and how much the riders care to win it.

though i would place cali relatively highly due to the large crowds it had on mt baldy.

 

[Eric8-A]

I'm pretty sure Colorado's going to end up being bigger than the ToC.

 

[karlboss]

Vac? is the biggest race outside Europe based on tradition, support and how much the riders care to win it.

though i would place cali relatively highly due to the large crowds it had on mt baldy.

Colombia??? Doesn't surprise me if that's what Vac is.

 

[Parrulo]

What? Why would North Europeans prefer this race? Are you suggesting that North Europeans hate South European racing? Please don't tar me with your jingoistic brush. There isn't space on the calender for a 3rd GT.

And me thinking we already had 3 Gt's

Well a lot of South European cyclists hate the northern races

Why can't we hate back

For the record, this is not a very serious post.

i know it's not a serious post but taking it a bit more seriously then what maybe is needed, the Italian always cared about both cobbles and the ardennes and the spanish have a decent tradition on the ardennes.

i honestly think the northern guys like the belgiuns, the dutchies, the scandinavian and british/american have a much bigger disregard for the southern european races then the other way around.

Vac is the biggest race outside Europe based on tradition, support and how much the riders care to win it.

though i would place cali relatively highly due to the large crowds it had on mt baldy.

I agree with you hitch, the Tour of Columbia has a million times the tradition and the prestige of the ToC or any other race on the american calender, any1 who disagrees can only be in denial.

 

[McLovin]

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-of-california/#rosters

If this is true, that's a very weak field. And only 128 riders? How come Sky (Rogers) are not there?

 

[Martin318is]

I think the most unfortunate thing for this race is the efforts to make it appear to be the 2nd biggest stage race in the world. Its an embarrassment for the event for anyone who knows anything about the sport. So in effect, they insult all of the knowledgeable followers of cycling in the US in order to attract the blind sheep for ratings.

Its like referring to a domestic competition as the "World Series" with the exception that very few countries outside the US actually follow\play baseball anyway.

Its potentially a great race to be looked forward to every year but it will not be the equivalent of the Giro - or the Vuelta, etc without a pretty massive shift in the alignment of world cycling. I dont see that sort of shift happening for a period expressed in decades.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-of-california/#rosters

If this is true, that's a very weak field. And only 128 riders? How come Sky (Rogers) are not there?

Looks like a strong field to me, the best for a non world tour race this year by a long way.

 

[Bavarianrider]

What? Why would North Europeans prefer this race? Are you suggesting that North Europeans hate South European racing? Please don't tar me with your jingoistic brush. There isn't space on the calender for a 3rd GT.

Well, how many riders from England or northern Europe are there who can do well in the super steep climb fests of the Vuelta and Giro for example?
Therefore, certainly a Tour in the USA which is a bit more balanced might be a goood things for those guys.
Riders from America and Britain certainly prefer riding in the USA then in Spain. I mean that's just a normal and logical thing. And so there are many riders from northern Europe who would prefer such a race in the USA over a race like the Vuelta, which features no flair, no real prestige anymore and not much media attention for them, an last but not least, a route which usually doesn't fit them at all.
So therefore i think in September having the Vuelta and having a big Tour of California at the same time would be a good thing. As riders could have chose where they go according to their own needs and likings.
It's not a wild guess to suggest that in the majority southern europeans would go to the Vuelta, while Americans, the British and northerns would go to Califorina.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I think the most unfortunate thing for this race is the efforts to make it appear to be the 2nd biggest stage race in the world. Its an embarrassment for the event for anyone who knows anything about the sport. So in effect, they insult all of the knowledgeable followers of cycling in the US in order to attract the blind sheep for ratings.

Its like referring to a domestic competition as the "World Series" with the exception that very few countries outside the US actually follow\play baseball anyway.

Its potentially a great race to be looked forward to every year but it will not be the equivalent of the Giro - or the Vuelta, etc without a pretty massive shift in the alignment of world cycling. I dont see that sort of shift happening for a period expressed in decades.

I like that kind of mentality! Think big that's what America is all about isn't it. Have a dream and try to reach it. At least you can try! I think for an American race this is an appropriate approach!

 

[McLovin]

Well, how many riders from England or northern Europe are there who can do well in the super steep climb fests of the Vuelta and Giro for example?

That's not a problem. A climb with 5% is same with one with 20%. It's just a matter of how to approach them. Someone explained this very loud and clear about 1 year ago, on this forum.

 

[theyoungest]

Looks like a strong field to me, the best for a non world tour race this year by a long way.

The Volta ao Algarve had a much stronger field. To name just one.

 

[Bavarianrider]

That's not a problem. A climb with 5% is same with one with 20%. It's just a matter of how to approach them. Someone explained this very loud and clear about 1 year ago, on this forum.

Good one

 

[The Hitch]

Well, how many riders from England or northern Europe are there who can do well in the super steep climb fests of the Vuelta and Giro for example?
Therefore, certainly a Tour in the USA which is a bit more balanced might be a goood things for those guys.
Riders from America and Britain certainly prefer riding in the USA then in Spain. I mean that's just a normal and logical thing. And so there are many riders from northern Europe who would prefer such a race in the USA over a race like the Vuelta, which features no flair, no real prestige anymore and not much media attention for them, an last but not least, a route which usually doesn't fit them at all.
So therefore i think in September having the Vuelta and having a big Tour of California at the same time would be a good thing. As riders could have chose where they go according to their own needs and likings.
It's not a wild guess to suggest that in the majority southern europeans would go to the Vuelta, while Americans, the British and northerns would go to Califorina.

Lol, no way did you write "vuelta has no prestige anymore" while trying to build up a race that is 6 years old, with a straight face.

That and the offensive generalization that all people would logically prefer the us to southern Europe and that this is so obvious, you don't even explain it, show that you are clearly 100% baiting people here.

 

[hrotha]

American riders hate riding in Spain so much half of them live in Girona.

 

[Kvinto]

American riders hate riding in Spain so much half of them live in Girona.

...and do this:

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

And so there are many riders from northern Europe who would prefer such a race in the USA over a race like the Vuelta, which features no flair, no real prestige anymore and not much media attention for them, an last but not least, a route which usually doesn't fit them at all.

Did you have your head examined lately? No? I would consider going to a doc asap. No flair [Angliru, Lagos de Covandonga etc etc], no real prestige [ there a THREE Grand Tours in the world, except for the Tour of Cali off course], get outta here man. The Giro and the Vuelta have been more exciting the last 15 - 20 years then the Tour de France. U should open your eyes when watching cycling on tv...

American riders hate riding in Spain so much half of them live in Girona.

Thats just a coincidence off course. Has nothing to do with the little University in Girona

 

[Bavarianrider]

Sorry guys, if you are as ignorant as to say that the Vuelta is on a massive downfall, one can't help you.
And if you don't want to accept that more money could be made in a growing race in the US, i can't help you, too.
If the California Tour builds up, gets more sponsors and more attention in American media over the years, do you really think American riders wouldn't like to race there?
Do you really think that an American rider doing well in a big California Tour could not make more money then when he does well in the Vuelta?
Do you really want to suggest that big companies from the USA, Great Britain and so on are interested in the Vuelta?
Cycling needs to mature and get its *** out of Europe. That does not mean that your beloved Vuelta can't exist anymore. Of course it can. Fine no problem, it's a great event for Spain. But cycling shouldn't sleep on the chance to grow in the USA. This would only have benefits for everyone in cycling.
But many of you guys represent the bad habits in cycling which harm the grotwh of the sport. All you talk about is talking about a race's tradition, arguing against anything new. Well do that if you like it.
I am interested in the sport and i want it to grow. Therefore i wish the organizers in the USA all the best in their dream to create the second best and important stage race in the world. It are people like that who are taking mankind forward, not those who are biting against any innovation.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sorry guys, if you are as ignorant as to say that the Vuelta is on a massive downfall, one can't help you.
And if you don't want to accept that more money could be made in a growing race in the US, i can't help you, too.
If the California Tour builds up, gets more sponsors and more attention in American media over the years, do you really think American riders wouldn't like to race there?
Do you really think that an American rider doing well in a big California Tour could not make more money then when he does well in the Vuelta?
Do you really want to suggest that big companies from the USA, Great Britain and so on are interested in the Vuelta?
Cycling needs to mature and get its *** out of Europe. That does not mean that your beloved Vuelta can't exist anymore. Of course it can. Fine no problem, it's a great event for Spain. But cycling shouldn't sleep on the chance to grow in the USA. This would only have benefits for everyone in cycling.
But many of you guys represent the bad habits in cycling which harm the grotwh of the sport. All you talk about is talking about a race's tradition, arguing against anything new. Well do that if you like it.
I am interested in the sport and i want it to grow. Therefore i wish the organizers in the USA all the best in their dream to create the second best and important stage race in the world. It are people like that who are taking mankind forward, not those you are biting against any innovation.

Thanx for the big smile you put on my face. Hilarious.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Do you honestly think California can become the second most important race in the calender ahead of the Giro?

If you do, I worry for ya.

Well if you don't try you'll never know.
I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.
Of course that's always a matter of perspective. Of course for Italians the Giro will always be more important, far more important. But that does not mean it will always be more important for the rest of the world.
If you don't have a dream and a goal you'll never rach anything in life.
If they fail to become the second best and become the 3rd best. Well that would be fine too, wouldn't it?

 

[gustienordic]

I think the most unfortunate thing for this race is the efforts to make it appear to be the 2nd biggest stage race in the world. Its an embarrassment for the event for anyone who knows anything about the sport. So in effect, they insult all of the knowledgeable followers of cycling in the US in order to attract the blind sheep for ratings.

Its like referring to a domestic competition as the "World Series" with the exception that very few countries outside the US actually follow\play baseball anyway.

Its potentially a great race to be looked forward to every year but it will not be the equivalent of the Giro - or the Vuelta, etc without a pretty massive shift in the alignment of world cycling. I dont see that sort of shift happening for a period expressed in decades.

I have a hard time seeing how this race is so good without MTFs or even good climbing! If the organizers wanted to make this race good, they could easily... I do not know how the roads are in Cali, but I am sure there are much, much, much better mountains they could finish on to give the feeling of a traditional stage race. This is my least favorite part of ToC, all the climbs are far from the finish (exception of Mt. Baldy, but come on, can't they do better than that?) and the emphasis seems to have been on circuit races. Organize the race like a European stage race and maybe it will compete with one of the GTs in 15 years if it becomes three weeks long.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I have a hard time seeing how this race is so good without MTFs or even good climbing! If the organizers wanted to make this race good, they could easily... I do not know how the roads are in Cali, but I am sure there are much, much, much better mountains they could finish on to give the feeling of a traditional stage race. This is my least favorite part of ToC, all the climbs are far from the finish (exception of Mt. Baldy, but come on, can't they do better than that?) and the emphasis seems to have been on circuit races. Organize the race like a European stage race and maybe it will compete with one of the GTs in 15 years if it becomes three weeks long.

Like it or not, circuit stages are the future of cycling.
That's not what bavarianrider says, that's what the new Boss of the Giro says.

I agree that the route could obviously be better. Maybe they are having a hard timeto get permissions to race on certain rodes? I don't know what the authorities are like in the US. when it comes down to close roads for cycling races.

 

[BillytheKid]

...and do this:

The Roundhead thing was a joke, but now I am not so certain.

 

[BillytheKid]

They are welcome to win the whole damn thing. Still wouldn't make the ToC the 2nd (3rd, 4th....) most important race in the World.

That's in your head and I have not really seen to many here taking that stand. There's hype with any race.

The TofC beats that sprint fest down under in many regards. If it were on World Tour, then obviously that would draw a better field. It does pretty well as it is because of the bike market here and the manufacturers want the hype and publicity to help sell there wares.

Does this really have to be explained?

 

[c&cfan]

Do you honestly think California can become the second most important race in the calender ahead of the Giro?

If you do, I worry for ya.

not "this california", but in the future? hell yes.

 

[Fus087]

not "this california", but in the future? hell yes.

I think it isn't impossible.
But it will take at least 30-40 years in my opinion - AFTER the race has gotten a route that could rival the other GTs.
For California to become the second-best stage race in the world, future pros need to watch it in their childhood and aspire to do the same thing.

I mean, we have a guy like Henao saying that he would like to win Paris-Roubaix. This kind of prestige can't be bought, it has to be built. And that takes time.

By all means, California should try to become bigger and better (whether they succeed is on another page). But not at the direct expense of other races, and please without the ridiculous hype until it's actually justified.