Tour of California 2012

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Like it or not, circuit stages are the future of cycling.
That's not what bavarianrider says, that's what the new Boss of the Giro says.

I agree that the route could obviously be better. Maybe they are having a hard timeto get permissions to race on certain rodes? I don't know what the authorities are like in the US. when it comes down to close roads for cycling races.

Meh.. I actually agree with you. I said the same about circuit races. They are most probably the future. Also with increasing road furniture in europe I don't see another way.

Also the decline of the racing field in the Vuelta the last year.. I can see a race like California have a stronger field. But most of the hardcore cycling fans will never accept it as a GT or bigger race than Vuelta/Giro.
I'd dislike it as well, but there is a good possibility ToC will be bigger in the future

 

[CobbleStoner]

Well if you don't try you'll never know.
I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.
Of course that's always a matter of perspective. Of course for Italians the Giro will always be more important, far more important. But that does not mean it will always be more important for the rest of the world.
If you don't have a dream and a goal you'll never rach anything in life.
If they fail to become the second best and become the 3rd best. Well that would be fine too, wouldn't it?

to even start this debate they would have to combine the ToC with the old Coors Classic route, add in the Tour of Utah and Gila River stage race in NM and you might have the 2nd best race in the world if you could get all 18 WT teams to show. but then the ultimate problem is with the calender itself, not enough months in the year

 

[hrotha]

It's not just a matter of having a strong field, but of having top riders actually peaking for it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Then how can the Giro be the second biggest race?

 

[hrotha]

Then how can the Giro be the second biggest race?

Are you saying Contador is a nobody

 

[El Pistolero]

We all know why he rode the Giro in 2008 and 2011. Let's face it, under your logic the World Championship road race is the second most prestigious event in cycling. Or the Olympic road race every four years.

For me personally it's

1. Tour
2. Giro
3. WC road race

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

4 roubaix
5 lbl
6 flanders
7 msr

17 vuelta or something

 

[karlboss]

4 roubaix
5 lbl
6 flanders
7 msr

17 vuelta or something

Where is cali then?

 

[hrotha]

We all know why he rode the Giro in 2008 and 2011. Let's face it, under your logic the World Championship road race is the second most prestigious event in cycling. Or the Olympic road race every four years.

For me personally it's

1. Tour
2. Giro
3. WC road race

I didn't say it was the only factor. Actually, I implied it wasn't ("it's not just...").

Tradition and the fact that it's three weeks also count.

 

[jens_attacks]

lol bavarianrider...

seriously now,california is not made for pro cycling...what the hell has to do with it?well i like it as a warm-up race for le tour,a little relaxing time for the european riders and the guys dressed in all sorts of things running there but that's it.no more than that.

california just has to give me good movies and super gangsta rappers...don't worry about pro cycling entertainment,i can get that from somewhere else.and the history of the sport too....

"california....knows how to party"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWOsbGP5Ox4

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Where is cali then?

atm still only 35th or something

 

[Bavarianrider]

Omega sending a really strong team

 

[Don Johnson]

Some very good contributions here.
I have to agree with everyone, everyone here has something good to offer.
Prudhome, McQuaid, many of the heavy hitters in cycling attend the ToC. They do want to grow the sport of cycling. I do not think they are saying the ToC is better, or more important than any other race.
The ToC is the race in the USA, although the Tour of Utah and Gila have tougher courses, the ToC is recognized Internationally.
The ToC is a very, very well organized race, I have seen for instance the infrastructure of the rolling road closures, the California Highway Patrol takes their job very seriously in the ToC.
Never being at a European race, I would be unable to compare the level of racing.
However the organizers seem to be trying to create a balanced course, so that many different styles of riders, and racing calibers can be competitive.
The riders make the race. Not the course, particularly.
I invite the European fans to watch the coverage of the race this year, it should be quite good, and is free.That is is if it is nit blocked for European internet.

 

[theyoungest]

I invite the European fans to watch the coverage of the race this year, it should be quite good, and is free.That is is if it is nit blocked for European internet.

It's not geo blocked, and the stream is indeed great. Just like the Utah and Colorado streams. Races in Europe can learn something from that.

BTW, the ToC is even on Eurosport over here.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Thanx for the big smile you put on my face. Hilarious.

Indeed. I am loving this thread. Excellent entertainment.
Certainly better than the AToC is likely to dish out.
BR's certainly got the ball rollin' around here with his fusion of comedy/trolling/er.......logic.


Yes. Eurosport live once again. A pity most of the stages are carried for 75-90 minutes, while BR's beloved ITT gets an hour extra.
At least Baldy gets the increased treatment, too. (that's Mount, not Levi or grandad.)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

However the organizers seem to be trying to create a balanced course, so that many different styles of riders, and racing calibers can be competitive.
The riders make the race. Not the course, particularly.
I invite the European fans to watch the coverage of the race this year, it should be quite good, and is free.That is is if it is nit blocked for European internet.

Part of that is that a lot of the riders they attract (and a lot of the most marketable riders they attract, which is a key factor) are those who are on downtime after the Classics; they'll just climb off if the race is too tough, since they're just there on R&R. A stage like Big Bear in 2010 failed because it was simultaneously too tough (far too much cumulative climbing for a lot of the riders, who either HDed or DNFed) and too easy (the final climb included a huge amount of vertical climbing, but at too easy a gradient to allow attacks to be fruitful, Tony Martin's awesome ride that day notwithstanding, which is probably the reason Bavarianrider is so in support of this race - Tony has a much better chance of winning California than the Giro or Vuelta, plus the 20 or so flat kilometres at the end that negated it all). They can quite often put out a fairly impressive startlist, but all too often the riders have just been making the numbers up - and we get back to the whole Volta a Portugal vs. Tour Down Under argument again. Great for the fans who are there, they can see the big names and meet their heroes - but not so great for those watching at home.

You mention the coverage - this is something that California has done extremely well. The coverage is slick, well put together (when the TV companies stay til the end rather than cut to pre-game hockey like in 2010 anyway), and it's also convenient for European fans as it's on in the evening, whereas sometimes top quality European races compete with the working day.

Ultimately though, the Vuelta has always been the runt of the Grand Tour litter, but the Spanish still love cycling. They just can't afford their races in the current economic time. A lot of the time in the US, it appears that the racing has curio value, but they're still in the process of building the fanbase that the Europeans can take for granted. California is an important part of building that - but it's not the end unto itself, yet or in the near future.

 

[offbyone]

Great! Have fun!

I really hope this will turn into a two week race one day. Would be great for the sport to have GT outside of Europe.

No doubt, the ToC has a lot going for it. It is a fun place to race and I agree that this is an attraction to the cyclists. Especially coming early and pre-training and staying after for more training in cali weather. They have done a great job with the organization. The TV coverage is quite good and the free online coverage is great to get cycling fans all over the world involved. But most of what it has going for it can be summed up as POTENTIAL not reality. Right now, the ToC more closely resembles a biking parade than an actual pro race.

It is a lot of hot air. All those epic mountains and difficult roads in cali, yet the course is easy. The focus is more on the event and the production rather than the bike racing. Before any consideration can be given to expand the race, the focus has to come back to the bike racing and the ToC needs to prove that it can put a course on the table that allows racers to compete to their fullest.

Surprisingly, after only a year, some might say that the tour of Colorado has a better chance to be a top pro tour race. I understand that this is a process, but the ToC has been around long enough that they should be able to take a few risks with the course and sacrifice some sponsor dollars for some actual bike racing. While last year was a step forward, this year is two steps back.

 

[Don Johnson]

I think it isn't impossible.
But it will take at least 30-40 years in my opinion - AFTER the race has gotten a route that could rival the other GTs.
For California to become the second-best stage race in the world, future pros need to watch it in their childhood and aspire to do the same thing.

I mean, we have a guy like Henao saying that he would like to win Paris-Roubaix. This kind of prestige can't be bought, it has to be built. And that takes time.

By all means, California should try to become bigger and better (whether they succeed is on another page). But not at the direct expense of other races, and please without the ridiculous hype until it's actually justified.

I used to think the same thing until I saw Greg LeMond at age 14. Then I saw him win the Jr. Worlds. Then I saw him win the Worlds' then I saw him riding the classics aggressively then the Tour.
I saw the Red Zinger take off, and then turn into the Coors Classic.
Then other stage races, and then it kind of died out.
The people who organize this race have Prudome helping them. If you ride your bike around the East Bay to the South Bay and the Silicon Valley, take a look at the Bio Tech, Computer and other high end intelectual/technological think tanks. Almost everyone of the Dilberts over there ride bikes, and are alternative thinkers(ones who might try a Tri race or even watch a bike race or two.

 

[Caruut]

Well, how many riders from England or northern Europe are there who can do well in the super steep climb fests of the Vuelta and Giro for example?
Therefore, certainly a Tour in the USA which is a bit more balanced might be a goood things for those guys.
Riders from America and Britain certainly prefer riding in the USA then in Spain. I mean that's just a normal and logical thing. And so there are many riders from northern Europe who would prefer such a race in the USA over a race like the Vuelta, which features no flair, no real prestige anymore and not much media attention for them, an last but not least, a route which usually doesn't fit them at all.
So therefore i think in September having the Vuelta and having a big Tour of California at the same time would be a good thing. As riders could have chose where they go according to their own needs and likings.
It's not a wild guess to suggest that in the majority southern europeans would go to the Vuelta, while Americans, the British and northerns would go to Califorina.

Haha, Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins made the back pages over here when they were looking like they might win the Vuelta. If I said Tour of California to most people here, they would probably think I was talking about an identikit road trip movie.

It's a pretty wild guess - you have no data, only mildly racist insinuations, to back up your point. The cycling fans I know here would laugh in my face if I suggested that winning the Vuelta wasn't as prestigious as the marketing fest that is the ToC. You have no proof whatsoever for your claims, yet you say they are "normal and logical". Personally, I'd much rather be at the Vuelta, so out of the Brits that you've sampled, 100% would like to race in Spain, not the USA. Go figure.

As for few of our riders being the type to ride the roads of the Vuelta - we got two podiums last year, did we not? I think the main reason that Britain doesn't yet produce attacking climbers is because so many of the road riders come from the track at the moment. When the generation that grew up watching Cav and Wiggins enter the peloton, we are more likely to have more road-specific riders.

If you think that the Tour of California (a 6 year old race where 4 guys care about winning, 2 of which are old enough to be Peter Sagan's dad and featuring a grand total of 0 drug tests) has less prestige than the years and years of the Vuelta then in your own patronising terms "I cannot help you".

Furthermore, if you genuinely believe that those two middle-aged men bring more flair to a race than some of the best of the Basque country and more, then yet again, "I cannot help you".

 

[austy37]

(when the TV companies stay til the end rather than cut to pre-game hockey like in 2010 anyway)

you do realize its stanley cup time right?

 

[Martin318is]

I like that kind of mentality! Think big that's what America is all about isn't it. Have a dream and try to reach it. At least you can try! I think for an American race this is an appropriate approach!

Then that is truly tragic.

Sorry but it is one thing to say, "This event is growing rapidly and will eventually be the 2nd biggest Tour race in the calendar"

it a completely pathetic delusion to say, "This race IS the 2nd most important tour race on the calendar".

For many of us, ToC is a race merely for those who need to suck up to US sponsors and those who weren't good enough to get into their team's Giro Squad. I applaud the desire to grow up to BECOME relevant though. Good luck to the event.

 

[greenedge]

I think the TOC has the potential to grow along with all the other American riders that are coming through. American cycling has won 10 TDF's and other GT's but has only got one Monument LBL- TH in 2003.

The TOC can only grow in stature if it becomes established over a long period.

In my view last year was a good race highlights being the: ( course, good MTF's and Busche ). It's a pity that the course has regressed but it looks better than some- and will have Boonen, Nibali and Horner ( hopefully Levi can also race ) and maybe Andy can get in some good domestique work so at least it has a good field ( though lacking in sprinters ).

 

[jens_attacks]

last year's race was one of the best of the year for me.if they can keep it like that,it would be pretty awesome.

 

[Bavarianrider]

GC contenders

Leipheimer, Horner, Nibali
Busche, Velits, van Garderen, Talynsky,
Danielson, Gesink, Roche
Zabriskie, Sanchez Leon, Machado,

Whom did i miss out?

 

[cineteq]

GC contenders

Leipheimer, Horner, Nibali
Busche, Velits, van Garderen, Talynsky,
Danielson, Gesink, Roche
Zabriskie, Sanchez Leon, Machado,

Whom did i miss out?

Gesink has been training in Cali for a while. Watch out.