Tour of Pologne 2015(2.UWT) 2-8.08

[DBotero]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

Aru is not better than them in the ITT.They might lose some time to Valverde,TVG and Majka though.Sky always go for the GC.Plan B aka stage wins will come in place when they are out of contention.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

If Froome doesn't do the Vuelta, they have a great plan-B in Henao. One of the punchiest guys in the peloton.

Sure, for a top 10 placing.

No, for a top 5 or even podium.

You're forgetting a 40km pan flat TT where Henao will really suffer. And the really difficult climbing days (Stage 11) where he won't be as good as the pure climbers. He is a Purito-like rider really super explosive on the steep parts, on of the best in the world but when it extends to over 10km climbs? Really good, but not with the best.

You're 100% right about that. But without any good TT riders in the race, it's not a big of a deal.

Valverde and Quintana aren't THAT good. Nibali is way overrated (and will get dropped on the small, steep climbs). Aru is not good. Landa is bad. Purito is really bad. Majka is bad. Pozzovivo had one good TT, but that's it. He is pocket-sized and shouldn't be that good at it.

Van Garderen is the only one that is good at it, but he will suffer on the punchy climbs. And in the mountains too, I think. He can't see him as a Vuelta-rider.

This is a good argument for Froome doing the Vuelta. I think Sky should make him do it not just for the pattern of TDF winners in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 all having ridden the Vuelta, but also he would really be the favourite if he doesn't blow up in the TT like last year.

 

[johnymax]

I think it's between Ulissi, Ion and Zakarin for the final victory with the Russian being a bit of a question mark. He hasn't convinced me in this race.

 

[WheelofGear]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

Aru is not better than them in the ITT.They might lose some time to Valverde,TVG and Majka though.Sky always go for the GC.Plan B aka stage wins will come in place when they are out of contention.

Majka sucks at TT'ing unless it's very hilly. I'd say he is almost as bad as Purito. Maybe even worse.

Of the GC riders in the Vuelta, Henao is one of the best. Only Valverde, TVG and Nibali are better. And Froome of course, if he chooses to be there.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

The TT last year wasn't all that selective between the GC guys. I think Zakarin is too far back even if he was in top form which he doesn't seem to be. He actually lost ground in the TT last year anyway. It should be between Ulissi and Izaguirre

 

[DBotero]

1 Sergio Luis Henao (Col) Team Sky 04:38:27
2 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Lampre-Merida 00:00:08
3 Lawson Craddock (USA) Giant-Alpecin
4 Christophe Riblon (Fra) Ag2r-La Mondiale
5 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team
6 Mikel Nieve Iturralde (Spa) Team Sky 00:00:11
7 Ben Hermans (Bel) BMC Racing Team
8 Jon Izaguirre Insausti (Spa) Movistar Team
9 Davide Formolo (Ita) Cannondale-
10 Bart De Clerq (Bel) Lotto Soudal 00:00:16

General classification after stage 6:
1 Sergio Luis Henao (Col) Team Sky 25:34:12
2 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Lampre-Merida
3 Bart De Clerq (Bel) Lotto Soudal 00:00:10
4 Davide Formolo (Ita) Cannondale-Garmin 00:00:11
5 Ben Hermans (Bel) BMC Racing Team 00:00:14
6 Jon Izaguirre Insausti (Spa) Movistar Team
7 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 00:00:17
8 Christophe Riblon (Fra) Ag2r-La Mondiale 00:00:19
9 Mikel Nieve Iturralde (Spa) Team Sky 00:00:22
10 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha 00:00:27

 

[HelloDolly]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

What too many chances ??
He has been all year riding for Porte & Froome except for lBL where he crashed and San Seb where he finsihed in the main grpup with Valverde , Martin, etc

Can you enlighten us as to what chances Roche has had ??
He rode the Tour with extra weight as per orders to be strong in many roles from flat to hilly (read the Guardian article)

I figure i Froome isn;t at the Vuelta it is between Henao & Roche for protected status
But given history in grand Tours Roche is a good bet but does not mean Nieve , Deignan et al cannot go for stages

 

[Brullnux]

Zakarin 27 seconds down on GC. He will probably catch Henao but he might not catch Ulissi, depending on his time trial form.

Just looked back at his results. He has only ever had one good result in TT's at a decent level, in Romandie. Pais Vasco: 21st (Although that day had Aia)
San Luis: 6th in a flat TT, only 10 seconds ahead of a shockingly out of form Nairo and Gaviria(?!), while 33 seconds behind Malori.
Vuelta a Burgos 2014: 7th in a fairly short, flat TT, 6 seconds behind Nairo and 7 behind the winner (behind Moreno too)
Tour of Poland 2014: 30th. Not great form, but not that bad, 25th in the Bukowina stage, but he still finished 1:23 down on Vandewalle in the exact same TT of today.
Russia championships 2014: 12th, 4 minutes down on Vorobyez. Mind you, much better than this year, where he finished 24th almost 8 minutes down on Ovechkin.

My point is that we are overhyping him for the TT. Maybe he will pull out an incredible TT, but it would be only the second time in his career. One great race does not a champion make

 

[WheelofGear]

This is a good argument for Froome doing the Vuelta. I think Sky should make him do it not just for the pattern of TDF winners in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 all having ridden the Vuelta, but also he would really be the favourite if he doesn't blow up in the TT like last year.

Yes. And as I've said before, he almost have it in his bag. But I'm not sure that he is ready for another GC. Maybe he is tired. Maybe he wants to spend time with his upcoming baby and "prepare" for that in the next mouths.

 

[Brullnux]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

Aru is not better than them in the ITT.They might lose some time to Valverde,TVG and Majka though.Sky always go for the GC.Plan B aka stage wins will come in place when they are out of contention.

Majka sucks at TT'ing unless it's very hilly. I'd say he is almost as bad as Purito. Maybe even worse.

Of the GC riders in the Vuelta, Henao is one of the best. Only Valverde, TVG and Nibali are better. And Froome of course, if he chooses to be there.

Yeah Majka sucks at TT-ing. 4th in last year's Giro TT which had 2 and a half hills and a massive flat bit int he middle of it but he sucks at TTs.

 

[Pharazon]

Henao did a not bad TT in California earlier in the year, but doubt he's going to be able to do enough in the TT

 

[johnymax]

Re:

I know he took a good attacking win at the Giro, but Zakarin is going to bore people if he makes a career of being the 10th best climber in week long races and winning the final day TT and overall. Romandie and probably this so far. If only he'd have had his dramatic improvement earlier he could have won Beijing too!

His win in the Giro was superb. He destroyed a very strong breakaway group with riders like Kruijswijk, Intxausti, Hesjedal, Pellizotti, Betancur amongst them. He was also great in the Finestre stage. In Romandie he was certainly better than 10th best climber. He was one of the strongest there, top 5 for sure.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

I know he took a good attacking win at the Giro, but Zakarin is going to bore people if he makes a career of being the 10th best climber in week long races and winning the final day TT and overall. Romandie and probably this so far. If only he'd have had his dramatic improvement earlier he could have won Beijing too!

His win in the Giro was superb. He destroyed a very strong breakaway group with riders like Kruijswijk, Intxausti, Hesjedal, Pellizotti, Betancur amongst them. He was also great in the Finestre stage. In Romandie he was certainly better than 10th best climber. He was one of the strongest there, top 5 for sure.

Then why is he tenth

 

[WheelofGear]

Yeah Majka sucks at TT-ing. 4th in last year's Giro TT which had 2 and a half hills and a massive flat bit int he middle of it but he sucks at TTs.

It was a climber's TT when you look at who was in top 10. Again, a TT with Pozzovivo in top 10 = Not a normal TT.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

Good 1-2 punches by Henao and Nieve today

Sky were very strong and worked well as a team in the final stretch. Also, Puccio and Deignan did well to set up the Nieve attack. Henao finished it off very well.

As always in the Tour de Pologne, it comes down to the ITT. Ulissi, Izagierre and Zakarin look to be the best bets. Zakarin looked better than yesterday, but still not convincing (though that is his style). Ulissi has done some great ITTs, but I don't think a flat one really suits him. Izagierre is the most consistent of them (in his almost ninja style).

 

[johnymax]

Re: Re:

I know he took a good attacking win at the Giro, but Zakarin is going to bore people if he makes a career of being the 10th best climber in week long races and winning the final day TT and overall. Romandie and probably this so far. If only he'd have had his dramatic improvement earlier he could have won Beijing too!

His win in the Giro was superb. He destroyed a very strong breakaway group with riders like Kruijswijk, Intxausti, Hesjedal, Pellizotti, Betancur amongst them. He was also great in the Finestre stage. In Romandie he was certainly better than 10th best climber. He was one of the strongest there, top 5 for sure.

Then why is he tenth

I said in Romandie. In Poland he isn't convincing me as I stated in my previous post and I don't think he'll win. I was responding to the bore comment. He wasn't boring in his wins this season. Even in Romandie he attacked on the queen stage like three or four times. I'm not on his hype train and I think he has a lot more to show before he can be considered a perennial contender in stage races.

 

[TMP402]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

What too many chances ??
He has been all year riding for Porte & Froome except for lBL where he crashed and San Seb where he finsihed in the main grpup with Valverde , Martin, etc

Can you enlighten us as to what chances Roche has had ??
He rode the Tour with extra weight as per orders to be strong in many roles from flat to hilly (read the Guardian article)

I figure i Froome isn;t at the Vuelta it is between Henao & Roche for protected status
But given history in grand Tours Roche is a good bet but does not mean Nieve , Deignan et al cannot go for stages

Before Sky. In years of being a leader in GTs, he managed two top 10s. He knows his days as a contender are over which is why he was happy to join Sky, willing to gain weight, and able to help Froome on the cobbles and the flatter sections. His helping Froome in the mountains was almost an accident - they didn't plan on needing him then. By contrast, Nieve had 4 consecutive top 10s, got 12th in the Vuelta last year despite working for Froome, etc. I'd rather have a double team of Nieve and Henao if I was Brailsford. People would like Sky if they offered punchy attacking riding, rather than have Roche hanging off the back of the group every time it goes uphill a la Mollema, but nonetheless manage to pace himself to finish three minutes behind the winner every time a la Zubeldia.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I know he took a good attacking win at the Giro, but Zakarin is going to bore people if he makes a career of being the 10th best climber in week long races and winning the final day TT and overall. Romandie and probably this so far. If only he'd have had his dramatic improvement earlier he could have won Beijing too!

His win in the Giro was superb. He destroyed a very strong breakaway group with riders like Kruijswijk, Intxausti, Hesjedal, Pellizotti, Betancur amongst them. He was also great in the Finestre stage. In Romandie he was certainly better than 10th best climber. He was one of the strongest there, top 5 for sure.

Then why is he tenth

I said in Romandie. In Poland he isn't convincing me as I stated in my previous post and I don't think he'll win. I was responding to the bore comment. He wasn't boring in his wins this season. Even in Romandie he attacked on the queen stage like three or four times. I'm not on his hype train and I think he has a lot more to show before he can be considered a perennial contender in stage races.

Just to clarify: I hope he isn't a bore and is attacking, but if this race becomes his MO, it will be boring.

 

[HelloDolly]

Great win for Henao The Vuelta will be fun with him and Nieve.

Yeah. I actually hope Froome doesn't ride it. I want to see in "lesser guys" such as Henao, Nieve and Roche in action. They never get a chance in the GC.

I think Roche had too many chances.

Long Vuelta TT disadvantages Henao and Nieve but stage wins would still be entertaining and better than Sky usually do when not bringing Froome to a GT.

What too many chances ??
He has been all year riding for Porte & Froome except for lBL where he crashed and San Seb where he finsihed in the main grpup with Valverde , Martin, etc

Can you enlighten us as to what chances Roche has had ??
He rode the Tour with extra weight as per orders to be strong in many roles from flat to hilly (read the Guardian article)

I figure i Froome isn;t at the Vuelta it is between Henao & Roche for protected status
But given history in grand Tours Roche is a good bet but does not mean Nieve , Deignan et al cannot go for stages

Before Sky. In years of being a leader in GTs, he managed two top 10s. He knows his days as a contender are over which is why he was happy to join Sky, willing to gain weight, and able to help Froome on the cobbles and the flatter sections. His helping Froome in the mountains was almost an accident - they didn't plan on needing him then. By contrast, Nieve had 4 consecutive top 10s, got 12th in the Vuelta last year despite working for Froome, etc. I'd rather have a double team of Nieve and Henao if I was Brailsford. People would like Sky if they offered punchy attacking riding, rather than have Roche hanging off the back of the group every time it goes uphill a la Mollema, but nonetheless manage to pace himself to finish three minutes behind the winner every time a la Zubeldia.

Mayve you didn't see the Vuelta in 2013 ? Roche didn't attack ? He attacked and won the first MTF
He attacked all through the race ? Every stage except the day of snow & last stage
As for Nieve ..he is a good climber but cannot see him nor Heano as doing any better than Roches 5th & 6th in the Vuleta (which are better results than both have achieved to date)
And do you think Roche has given up all ambition to Nieve who is older than him ? Or that he hasn't joined SKY to roll along on the flat ? Say what you like about Roche but he does attack

Very strange logic

 

[johnymax]

Yeah Majka sucks at TT-ing. 4th in last year's Giro TT which had 2 and a half hills and a massive flat bit int he middle of it but he sucks at TTs.

It was a climber's TT when you look at who was in top 10. Again, a TT with Pozzovivo in top 10 = Not a normal TT.

He was very good 9th in Suisse this year. It wasn't a flat TT but if you look at the top placings, there are a lot of TT specialists and the average speed was pretty high. He also wasn't in top shape there so he is actually not a bad TT rider. It looks like he has improved a lot.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

This is a good argument for Froome doing the Vuelta. I think Sky should make him do it not just for the pattern of TDF winners in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 all having ridden the Vuelta, but also he would really be the favourite if he doesn't blow up in the TT like last year.

Yes. And as I've said before, he almost have it in his bag. But I'm not sure that he is ready for another GC. Maybe he is tired. Maybe he wants to spend time with his upcoming baby and "prepare" for that in the next mouths.

Even more reason to go for a GT that favours him and which he must really want to win. And I can't believe a baby is conducive to winning GTs.

 

[TMP402]

@HelloDolly: he still finished 7 minutes down to a surprise winner and more than 6.30 down to a sub-par Nibali. He's had his chances.

 

[Escarabajo]

Are we celebrating Colombian day today. Or maybe is coincidence.

7 de Agosto, 1819

 

[De Snelle Duif]

Hermans is doing extremely well. On the other hand, that maybe shows that the climbs aren' long enough. Still he's really having his best season so far.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

@HelloDolly: he still finished 7 minutes down to a surprise winner and more than 6.30 down to a sub-par Nibali. He's had his chances.

What the hell....he has still done alot better than Nieve has ever achieved in the Vuleta (or ever will) and Henao for that matter.

No point arguing with someone who is determined to not see ..Fist it was the he rode ala Zubledia and when that was disproved it was then where he finshed in relation to Nibali . Pinot finished more than 7minutes down on Nibali in last years Tour de France. Valverde 9.40 minutes and Bardet 11.26. By your logic they should never lead in at GT again

Nieve & Henao can chase stages if they want but if Froome is not riding then Roche is the best bet for the highest GC placing at SKY in the Vuelta and he won;t ride ala Zubeldia as he hasn't before

Plus can Roche never perfrom better ? - he went to SKY to do so

You are talking thru your hat .

And Nieve might be leaving SKY for all we know