Transfers and Rumours 2012 > 2013

[Vino attacks everyone]

lovkvists level never once was really good.

his 08 and 09 season where much better than his Sky years for sure

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Do Henao got the pucnh for FW or AGR?

there's very few riders with the punch of henao. a lot more punch than uran for instance

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

his 08 and 09 season where much better than his Sky years for sure

yes because he had a protected role and wasn't injured. still he sucked and was overrated beyond even nibali

 

[jyhjyh]

If so, I fear it will be just like Guldhammer at Columbia-High Road

That's my concern too.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's my concern too.

the real problem why all thoise danish youngsters fail as a professional is because they already train and are guided as pro's since their junior days. they have autobusses and doctors, masseurs etc, the likes of sky. that's why you see someone like ca sorensen as very strong. who never went through the rela danish juniro and u23 ranks

 

[fezzer]

that has to be the most pathetic and racist/nationalist clause I've ever heard about

"25-year-old admits he has had a hand in the game when it came to the Rasch accession to the Sky, but will not take too much credit.

- I've talked a bit with the management, but mostly he has fixed himself, said Boasson Hagen."

http://www.tv2.no/sport/sykkel/rasch-dette-blir-helt-raatt-3881866.html

More detailed article here http://www.procycling.no/article3476987.ece

 

[ciranda]

the real problem why all thoise danish youngsters fail as a professional is because they already train and are guided as pro's since their junior days. they have autobusses and doctors, masseurs etc, the likes of sky. that's why you see someone like ca sorensen as very strong. who never went through the rela danish juniro and u23 ranks

Please state facts, dude.

Train like pros, what, for five hours, stays in altitude, going to Spain for one month in the spring to prepare the season? Do the junior teams who compete internationally or Glud & Marstrand or Concordia do this? No. Do the national federation do any of these things with select riders? No. Do the junior teams or the pro-continental or the national federation have ressources to pay for buses, masseurs, doctors? Well, no they don't have that kind of money. And it's not like a lot of cyclists failed other than, perhaps, Guldhammer.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Please state facts, dude.

Train like pros, what, for five hours, stays in altitude, going to Spain for one month in the spring to prepare the season? Do the junior teams who compete internationally or Glud & Marstrand or Concordia do this? No. Do the national federation do any of these things with select riders? No. Do the junior teams or the pro-continental or the national federation have ressources to pay for buses, masseurs, doctors? Well, no they don't have that kind of money. And it's not like a lot of cyclists failed other than, perhaps, Guldhammer.

I;m talking about gls, or whatever that team is called now and how they ruled juniors and failed as pro's, lund, steensen, guldhammer, berendt hansen, pedersen, etc, etc, etc

 

[ciranda]

Ok, they closed five years ago, no new name. Martin Pedersen had good results as an under but never looked like he could be a good pro. Steensen and Lund had potential and still have, also Guldhammer. Steensen have been injuries most of the time but appears to be free of that now.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ok, they closed five years ago, no new name. Martin Pedersen had good results as an under but never looked like he could be a good pro. Steensen and Lund had potential and still have, also Guldhammer. Steensen have been injuries most of the time but appears to be free of that now.

man I will name here a list of world class gls/capinordic talents that have failed because of the arguments I gave regarding that team (too professional at early stage, same problem rabo has btw)

mads christensen
martin pedersen
anders berendt hansen
anders lund
andre steensen
lasse bochman
rasmus guldhammer
nikki ostergaard
troels ronning vinther

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah, Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswijk, Boom all disappeared once they turned pro...

Guldhammer is actually quite a good rider still. His "problem" appears to be more mental.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah, Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswijk, Boom all disappeared once they turned pro...

compared to how much they ruled as u23 then yes. quite disapointing all in all. besides you name 4 guys I can name another 20 of equal talent or near there that have failed as pro's. you can't possibly with any reason defend rabo's youth system.

also I wonder... how much does rabo pay you to defend them in every topic?

 

[Stilletto]

sure this thread is transfer rumours...

 

[theyoungest]

compared to how much they ruled as u23 then yes. quite disapointing all in all. besides you name 4 guys I can name another 20 of equal talent or near there that have failed as pro's. you can't possibly with any reason defend rabo's youth system.

also I wonder... how much does rabo pay you to defend them in every topic?

Yeah, I know the list of failures, you never cease to mention them, as obsessed with Rabobank as you are. Of course the era in which they made the transition from espoir to pro doesn't matter at all, and of course the reason that Thomas Dekker was one of the few successful ones doesn't make you think

Same goes for the Danish guys, probably.

 

[Bushman]

man I will name here a list of world class gls/capinordic talents that have failed because of the arguments I gave regarding that team (too professional at early stage, same problem rabo has btw)

mads christensen
martin pedersen
anders berendt hansen
anders lund
andre steensen
lasse bochman
rasmus guldhammer
nikki ostergaard
troels ronning vinther[/QU

I must agree with you that some of them hasn't been living up to the potential they were showing, but some of them like steensen and vinther fx hasn't failed yet, they still have the opportunities to become decent worldtour riders.

 

[Arnout]

Yeah, I know the list of failures, you never cease to mention them, as obsessed with Rabobank as you are. Of course the era in which they made the transition from espoir to pro doesn't matter at all, and of course the reason that Thomas Dekker was one of the few successful ones doesn't make you think

Same goes for the Danish guys, probably.

Ah, playing the deux vitesses card? I wouldn't be so sure about that with Rabobank and the number of Dutch pro's caught or known to be doping. Don't even get me started on the Danish riders. There's a certain one that also had connections with Rabobank.

 

[ciranda]

man I will name here a list of world class gls/capinordic talents that have failed because of the arguments I gave regarding that team (too professional at early stage, same problem rabo has btw)

Many of the names on that list have never been with GLS/Capinordic and, I repeat, that team closed four years ago and have not continued with a new name.

You could be right that some riders overperformed because of good conditions. That could be the case for Riber-Sellebjerg and Berendt. Who knows. Clearly that can't be right for all of them. Everybody has a different story. Christensen stopped riding for two years. He was seventh in San Sebastian a month ago. Vinther and Steensen are not old and are just starting out as pros. As mentioned Steensen had injuries most of the tiime he was with Saxo. Lund is at least a good support rider and never dominated as an under, in fact none of these guys did. Bøchmann is a classy rider, still very strong, and he deserves a good chance that he never got with Saxo although he had good results there.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

man I will name here a list of world class gls/capinordic talents that have failed because of the arguments I gave regarding that team (too professional at early stage, same problem rabo has btw)

mads christensen
martin pedersen
anders berendt hansen
anders lund
andre steensen
lasse bochman
rasmus guldhammer
nikki ostergaard
troels ronning vinther[/QU

I must agree with you that some of them hasn't been living up to the potential they were showing, but some of them like steensen and vinther fx hasn't failed yet, they still have the opportunities to become decent worldtour riders.

steensen and vinther haven't failed yet? they are 25-27 and haven't shown ANYTHING basically. both of them probably in their last or one of their last pro years.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Many of the names on that list have never been with GLS/Capinordic and, I repeat, that team closed four years ago and have not continued with a new name.

You could be right that some riders overperformed because of good conditions. That could be the case for Riber-Sellebjerg and Berendt. Who knows. Clearly that can't be right for all of them. Everybody has a different story. Christensen stopped riding for two years. He was seventh in San Sebastian a month ago. Vinther and Steensen are not old and are just starting out as pros. As mentioned Steensen had injuries most of the tiime he was with Saxo. Lund is at least a good support rider and never dominated as an under, in fact none of these guys did. Bøchmann is a classy rider, still very strong, and he deserves a good chance that he never got with Saxo although he had good results there.

all the riders I named were part of gls/capinordic. I searched it all and the team quit in late 2009. by then was capinordic, under lead of tom breschel who also lead gls and team ph or whatever it was called before


this is so tiresome. I clearly know a lot more than you. look up all the riders and their u23/junior results. I know what I'm talking about with these guys and if you honestly think being 25 and already kicked out as a pro(steensen) is young and promising then never mind talking to you

 

[TheArt]

19 year old Danny van Poppel going to Vacansoleil-DCM

 

[theyoungest]

19 year old Danny van Poppel going to Vacansoleil-DCM

I think he can handle it, for me he's currently the biggest Dutch talent in U23 so that's a big coup for Vacans (not very surprising, of course, given Jean-Paul's presence)

Ah, playing the deux vitesses card? I wouldn't be so sure about that with Rabobank and the number of Dutch pro's caught or known to be doping. Don't even get me started on the Danish riders. There's a certain one that also had connections with Rabobank.

If you'd actually read what I posted, I don't say none of the Rabobank pros were doping...

And bringing a geriatric Danish climber into the discussion is hardly relevant.

 

[ciranda]

all the riders I named were part of gls/capinordic. I searched it all and the team quit in late 2009. by then was capinordic, under lead of tom breschel who also lead gls and team ph or whatever it was called before


this is so tiresome. I clearly know a lot more than you. look up all the riders and their u23/junior results. I know what I'm talking about with these guys and if you honestly think being 25 and already kicked out as a pro(steensen) is young and promising then never mind talking to you

Your whole thing was that Danish riders have failed as pros because they could not adapt due to the fact that they had some unclear and unexplained better conditions than everyone else as U23's.

That's a strange argument, even after you specified it was only for riders who were with GLS/Capinordic. None of these riders ever dominated as U23 or junior. Almost all the riders on your list were with that team for one or at most two years. It was just a team like every other, not a Rabobank-like system where cyclists start at seventeen years old. Steensen was never there btw. And Chris Anker Sørensen was for one year.

Only Guldhammer was there in the team's last year, 2009. Your fantasies about GLS and their bus of gold and the amazing luxuries they had there does not apply to Lander or any other younger riders.

Steensen and Vinther are both 25. Steensen's best result as an under was third overall at Tour de l'Avenir. He will go to a good team next year after many injuries at Saxo. Vinther's best result was a stage victory at Tour de l'Avenir. This is his first year as a pro. None of them will be another Pinot or Sagan but can be solid riders who can win races from time to time, have fun, make a living, whatever.

 

[Cimber]

Think the issue that Ryo brings up regarding Danish on Dutch talents riding on teams that are too much like pro teams is valid. I dont think that it destroyes the riders, I just think that the great conditions make their talents seem bigger than they really are (i.e they arent gonna improve as much when turning pro as they were aldry closer to their max performance considering talents coming from worse organized talent teams).

 

[Arnout]

Think the issue that Ryo brings up regarding Danish on Dutch talents riding on teams that are too much like pro teams is valid. I dont think that it destroyes the riders, I just think that the great conditions make their talents seem bigger than they really are (i.e they arent gonna improve as much when turning pro as they were aldry closer to their max performance considering talents coming from worse organized talent teams).

Considering most bodies can only cope with peak level performance for a number of years (there's a reason no-one won the Tour more than 5 times), it is actually bad to be at the peak in youth ranks. Better save that for the years 26-32.

 

[Cimber]

Considering most bodies can only cope with peak level performance for a number of years (there's a reason no-one won the Tour more than 5 times), it is actually bad to be at the peak in youth ranks. Better save that for the years 26-32.

I dont think they are peaking in youth ranks. just saying they are closer to peaking that talents from less organized teams, Say 80% compared to 60% (pure random numbers only to illustrate the point)