Transfers and Rumours 2013 > 2014

[Zinoviev Letter]

The point is that Movistar is a mid-low budget team (In the WT), yet are amongst the top-5 measured by performance, with leaders like Valverde, Quintana and Costa this year.

Sure. But (a) they signed those three young, not as established stars, (b) their performance is helped by non-budget related issues (ie their last man standng status in the Spanish speaking world) and (c), most importantly for this discussion, Movistar are exceptional over-performers, not the standard for low or mid budget teams.

Are there many other low or mid budget teams that have significantly out-performed Garmin's one Grand Tour and two monuments in the last three years results?

 

[Netserk]

It was mostly a rebuttal to this quote:

Garmin are a relatively small budget team and they simply don't have the money to sign established stars often, if ever

I'd say that Valverde was an established rider when he returned from his ban.

If Movistar can afford to pay their leader 2-3M €, then so can Garmin if they want to.

 

[Parrulo]

Movistar's budget has increased since 2011.

The team leaders that year were Tondo and Soler and neither were on high salaries. The best rider of the season for them was arguably Costa and he was on minimum wage.

The next year Costa had his salary increased by a lot and Valverde was hired plus some other support riders. All of that extra money came from the sponsors. So you can easily account for a 2.5mil increase in budget from 2011 to 2012.

The budget was probably raised again for this year but not by a lot as they only hired support riders and will be raised again for next year in order to keep Quintana which means a 2 million per year increase.

However considering Movistar wasn't willing to increase a further 1.5 millions in order to keep Costa, i think they budget has reached the limit of what Movistar is willing to invest.

 

[Parrulo]

In Portugal Costa has been heavily rumoured to BMC who apparently is willing to give him full support for every stage race he targets next year (Tour included) and even give him freedom for the ardennes.

I don't know how i feel about that considering how badly everyone performs at BMC

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I'd say that Valverde was an established rider when he returned from his ban.

He's also been with their outfit continuously since his first step into the top division and the whole team has historically been built around him.

If Movistar can afford to pay their leader 2-3M €, then so can Garmin if they want to.

Following Parrulo's post, I strongly suspect that Movistar's salary budget is currently well over that of Garmin.

Even so, you are right that Garmin could probably reorient their salary budget towards a couple of bigger leaders at the expense of their mid-list riders if they wanted to. They may even do so as the likes of CVV, Zabriskie, Millar, Danielson reach their sell by dates. Those sort of guys are probably on pay that reflects their past results and their status within the team more than their potential going forward. But short of carrying out a purge of secondary riders on decent money, I simply don't think that they can afford to sign current stars.

Particularly when you remember that even if they did that, their competition for signatures of actual stars is more likely to be Sky, BMC, Katusha, Astana and other mega-budget teams than their near-peers like Movistar. Even if Garmin were to gut their team to offer a Sagan or a Nibali or whoever 2 million a year, they'd probably still not have the biggest offer and they also wouldn't be able to finance the kind of support those guys would demand. I suspect for instance that Dan Martin will have larger salary offers elsewhere when his contract next comes up and if he stays it will be because he's always been there.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I don't know how i feel about that considering how badly everyone performs at BMC

Probably fine just as long as he keeps muttering the words "Cadel Evans 2011" to himself mantra-style.

 

[roundabout]

Just a bit of pedantry, Valverde was with Kelme for the first 3 years of his career

 

[Parrulo]

Just a bit of pedantry, Valverde was with Kelme for the first 3 years of his career

No pedantry at all. When Valverde went to Abarca he was already one of the best riders in the world and he was still like 24/25.

Oh and it wouldn't surprise me if Garmin were overpaying all those old useless guys like Millar, CVDV, DZ and TD

 

[all_in]

Duarte has offers from BMC and Astana for the next year.If he goes to Astana and if he will the level of the 3rd week of the Giro I will be scared.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Oh and it wouldn't surprise me if Garmin were overpaying all those old useless guys like Millar, CVDV, DZ and TD

I'd be very surprised if they weren't (although I also wouldn't describe any of the above as "useless"). It's an inbuilt hazard to building any sports team around a stable core of trusted servants. They get old, but for reasons of sentiment, inertia and team stability its hard to move them on or significantly reduce their salaries. Particularly when they are all of roughly the same vintage and you are having to do it all in one go rather than in a continuous trickle.

Of their core rider group, the ones who have been there since the early days of the team, it's really only Martin (who is much younger anyway), Hesjedal and, to a much lesser extent, Danielson that they can really expect individual results from at this point. Even so, as those guys fade out (CVV is certainly retiring) I still wouldn't expect it to free up enough salary money for them to be able to compete for established star's signatures. They just aren't likely to be collecting salaries that all THAT inflated. Even the actual team leaders are on relatively low salaries.

 

[One Man Grupetto]

I'd be very surprised if they weren't (although I also wouldn't describe any of the above as "useless"). It's an inbuilt hazard to building any sports team around a stable core of trusted servants. They get old, but for reasons of sentiment, inertia and team stability its hard to move them on or significantly reduce their salaries. Particularly when they are all of roughly the same vintage and you are having to do it all in one go rather than in a continuous trickle.

Slightly pedantic I know, and I can't find a reference to him saying it, but I thought I recalled Millar saying he is not on a great salary with Garmin as it wouldn't make any sense what with him being involved in the ownership of the team.

 

[Billie]

Valverde's salary in his first year with Illes Ballears (2005) was 1.2 million. It was a three year contract with annual raise to 1.4 million for 2006 and 1.6 million for 2007. I suppose it has been 2 million ever since?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/froome-s-bskyb-backed-cycling-team-nears-lead-in-pay-race.html

that source is complete bull**** every team they got wrong

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Valverde's salary in his first year with Illes Ballears (2005) was 1.2 million. It was a three year contract with annual raise to 1.4 million for 2006 and 1.6 million for 2007. I suppose it has been 2 million ever since?

it was around 4 million in his last 2 years before he got suspended and is now 2 million again. same for quintana

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I like Androni and I don't really like Trek. Still I'm happy for Felline. He deserves a chance at the highest level. Such a talented rider.

 

[Netserk]

that source is complete bull**** every team they got wrong

Do you have a more accurate one?

 

[hoerpi]

Do you have a more accurate one?

I have problems finding it atm but IIRC Vaughters confirmed that was the 2013 numbers on twitter.

 

[xrayvision]

Again you guys get misled by Ryo and goes way of topic.

 

[karlboss]

The 6.2 refers to EBH Holding. Further down the article:



Which would make it 1.66M €

thank you.

 

[Domain311]

Deignan has signed for SKY as far as I'm aware.

 

[Pippo_San]

I like Androni and I don't really like Trek. Still I'm happy for Felline. He deserves a chance at the highest level. Such a talented rider.

Well he probably is talented, the thing is I believe he still doesn't exactly know what kind of rider he is and wants to be, hence the total lack of important results.

Alafaci too is going to Trek, another interesting prospect. Anyway considering there's a certain Bob Jungels who's going to be the future perfect blending of Cancellara and Bettini, I wonder if they'll find enough space in one day races...

 

[JRanton]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/froome-s-bskyb-backed-cycling-team-nears-lead-in-pay-race.html

It will be interesting to see what Sky spent on salaries in 2012 compared to 2011. A big increase I imagine considering they brought in Cavendish and the likes of Porte and Eisel. Add in the new contracts for a lot of their riders like EBH and Thomas and they must have spent around 18 million euros on salaries. Their 2012 line-up was insane. Highest CQ ranking score ever (last 15 years at least). http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team.asp?year=2012&teamcode=SKY

 

[JRanton]

that source is complete bull**** every team they got wrong

They got Sky's right, although it is for 2011 so not really relevant.

 

[JRanton]

Bert Grabsch is confirmed as leaving OPQS according to Cyclingfever. Retiring?

 

[tweak37]

it should be official next week - according this interview the contract should be signed next week.

http://www.cycling-info.sk/aktuality-zo-sveta-cyklistiky-clanky/1419-peter-velits-do-bmc

I guess this means it's official:

http://www.bmcracingteam.com/index....=1972&cHash=51b17a7202799e50beedbff2afc759e66