Transfers and Rumours 2016 > 2017

[qwerty16]

Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

They are nowhere near close to missing out as they are safely in the top 16. Astana, Lampre, Ag2r and Giant need to pass them following Lombardia, which is nearly impossible.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

 

[deneb]

Re: Re:

The gap between Bora/Bahrain and DD is over 400 points... nearly impossible to close that gap but signing Henao would help.

Puts them ahead of Lotto, AG2R, LottoNL, Astana & FDJ.

Henao's 2016 points count for Sky in the WT ranking, not for DD. DD has pretty much no chance to escape the bottom 2 positions, which means they'll battle with Bora and Bahrain for 2 licenses. In this battle, Henao's 2016 points (if he signs for DD) will count for DD as he's on their 2017 roster.

I may have misunderstood let me try again:

Henao currently has 234 points added to the 230 currently on DD's roster puts them on 464 which puts them ahead of both Lotto's, Astana and would leave AG2R looking at relegation because Matthews and Wilco's points put Sunweb north of 500.

Have I got that right?

No

the teams that can be relegated are the 17th and 18th in the UCI WorldTour classification.
A team who finish the season between the top 16 teams can't be relegated because of points.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

wonder how much more money Naesen would have got had he waited till now to sign instead of signing in early july

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

Who brought in the most points for Soudal? Wellens,Greipel and?

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

Who brought in the most points for Soudal? Wellens,Greipel and?

Roelandts, Benoot and Gallopin.

Shows why Gallopin made correct decision to help Thomas in Nice.

 

[deneb]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

Who brought in the most points for Soudal? Wellens,Greipel and?

1 WELLENS Tim 130
2 GREIPEL André 92
3 ROELANDTS Jurgen 90
4 GALLOPIN Tony 85
5 BENOOT Tiesj 66

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

wonder how much more money Naesen would have got had he waited till now to sign instead of signing in early july

If DD sign Henao and another rider with 40+ points or they do well in Lombardia it would not matter as AG2Rs next highest scorer is dupont with 32.

 

[Netserk]

DDD's best hope is that it'll be a four-way fight for three spots, where they 'only' have to better Giant, in which case Henao would be a big help.

 

[deneb]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

wonder how much more money Naesen would have got had he waited till now to sign instead of signing in early july

If DD sign Henao and another rider with 40+ points or they do well in Lombardia it would not matter as AG2Rs next highest scorer is dupont with 32.

The points are only from the top5 riders and they are losing Siutsou's points

if they sign henao they'll have:

1 Henao 234
2 Cavendish 80
3 Boasson Hagen 79
4 Haas 53
5 Cummings 38

for a total of 484 points

For the next season Ag2r already have more than 500 points, and onestly I don't see DD doing better than ag2r at Lombardia

 

[Samamba]

Yeah. DDD needs to pray that IAM won't be 17th team on the WT ranking. So they need to hope that Giant doesn't score more points than IAM in Lombardia.

 

[Billie]

But do points of new riders count in full. Wasn't there some rule where half a riders points stayed with his old team and half his points went to his new team?

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

If any Giant riders score in Lombardia and AG2R fail to do so then AG2R would be staring down the gun as Giant are only three points back and Henao would give DD a huge lead in points.

but AG2R have signed Naesen who's big time scorer this season

wonder how much more money Naesen would have got had he waited till now to sign instead of signing in early july

If DD sign Henao and another rider with 40+ points or they do well in Lombardia it would not matter as AG2Rs next highest scorer is dupont with 32.

The points are only from the top5 riders and they are losing Siutsou's points

if they sign henao they'll have:

1 Henao 234
2 Cavendish 80
3 Boasson Hagen 79
4 Haas 53
5 Cummings 38

for a total of 484 points

For the next season Ag2r already have more than 500 points, and onestly I don't see DD doing better than ag2r at Lombardia

Peraud retires and Pozzovivo is leaving.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Peraud retires and Pozzovivo is leaving.

Matthias Frank is also going to AG2R. Fränk+Naesen+Bardet is well over 500 points

 

[Netserk]

As long as Ag2r finishes in the top-16 of this year's ranking (judged by this year's team and not riders they hire) they are safe. Which is pretty much a given with the team they send to Lombardia.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I like Ag2r and do not want to see them relegated, but I will admit that I would be amused if the ASO's push for fewer WT teams ended up with them having to use the additional wild cards on keeping the same number of French invitees.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It's actually strange that a team that's been as bad as Cannondale is completely safe.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Peraud retires and Pozzovivo is leaving.

Matthias Frank is also going to AG2R. Fränk+Naesen+Bardet is well over 500 points

565 now, if I'm right.

Bardet + Naesen + Dupont + Frank + Latour.

 

[MatParker117]

Correct Bardet has saved there spot.

 

[F e r o x]

Where do people find the rules about new signings and their points?

 

[Anderis]

Re:

It's actually strange that a team that's been as bad as Cannondale is completely safe.

Apparently they weren't as bad as people perceive them. They were quite poor in 1st half of the season, but rather good in 2nd half of the season (but people will usually stand by their first impression, as psychology says).

I seem to recall the license points scoring system was totally different to what is everybody talking about here. It wasn't taking riders' straight amount of WT points, but rather was giving points according to the position of rider in the final WT or continental ranking and it was additionally including points for every single UCI win of a rider within the past 2 years. That's what stood on procyclingstats a few years ago. It didn't matter because there were not enough teams willing for WT licenses that selection would be needed. Continental races counted and it resulted in riders like Sohrabi signing with teams like Lotto-Belisol.

Did the rules change since then?

I'm fairly certain that they've also introduced the rule that part of the points "stays" with the old team when a rider moves to the other team.

If I'm wrong, please tell me your sources.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

But they are in the top 16, so Lotto are safe.

As I understand it, only 4 teams are relevant to the calculation (as Sean Kelly would have it): Gian and DD as teams outside the top 16 this year, and Bora and Bahrain as new applicants. 3 places are available, unless the UCI ignore their own rules, which would surprise no-one.

I believe the scoring riders are a follows:
Bora
Sagan Peter 669
Majka Rafał 110
König Leopold 10
Selig Rudi* 8
Bodnar Maciej 7
Bennett Sam* 2
TOTAL 806

Bahrain
Nibali Vincenzo 241
Gasparotto Enrico* 111
Haussler Heinrich 72
Colbrelli Sonny* 65
Visconti Giovanni 41
Siutsou Kanstantsin 40
Bonifazio Niccolo 17
Pibernik Luka 6
Navardauskas Ramunas 1
TOTAL 594


Sunweb Giant
Matthews Michael 184
Dumoulin Tom 149
Barguil Warren 124
Kelderman Wilco 74
Arndt Nikias 38
Preidler Georg 4
Waeytens Zico 1
TOTAL 574


Dimension Data
Henao Sergio 234
Cavendish Mark 80
Boasson Hagen Edvald 79
Haas Nathan 53
Cummings Stephen 38
Renshaw Mark 22
Sbaragli Kristian 5
Berhane Natnael 2
Venter Jaco 2
Fraile Omar 2
TOTAL 517

Which means that Dimension Data still need someone else, even assuming Henao has gone there, to get their place.
However, I have assumed that WT points can be given, for the purposes of this calculation, to riders that are not on WT teams in 2016: they do not appear in the WT rankings. Without the points of Selig and Bennett, Bora's score falls to 796, which makes no real difference to us, but without the points of Gasparotto and Colbrelli, Bahrain's points fall to 418, way behind Dimension Data. So not knowing whether it is points earned or points issued that are taken into consideration, we don't know whether Bahrain or DD are on course to miss out.

 

[Rollthedice]

Points of only the first five riders count.

 

[Samamba]

Re: Re:

Poor Belgian Lotto. Well I guess they would also get invitations to all major races, they're part of the cycling history since 2001, they've put so much into the sport and iirc Soudal signed a 5 year deal, so they'll be going a while.

But they are in the top 16, so Lotto are safe.

Not entirely safe of course, but it seems very unlikely.

Iam, Giant & AG2R need to be top-5, Lampre top 8 & Lotto can't take any points.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

Points of only the first five riders count.

I know that that is the case for the world rankings, but it has not been in the past, as far as I have understood it for ranking WT candidates. All part of UCI's great inconsistency.

Nicosix was always the great expert for compiling the points of WT aspirants: where is he nowadays?