Transfers and Rumours 2016 > 2017

[robin440]

what a nonsense! there are a lot of pros who turned in their late 20´s/early 30´s to world tour!

 

[ciranda]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

 

[TMP402]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

 

[Velolover2]

Movistar are getting butchered.

Javier Moreno is gone as well.

 

[staubsauger]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

This. There are only two anglo teams (Sky & Orica) left once DD gets relegated. That's exactly the same amount as of Dutch teams. Although Sunweb officially holds a German license.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

This. There are only two anglo teams (Sky & Orica) left once DD gets relegated. That's exactly the same amount as of Dutch teams. Although Sunweb officially holds a German license.

You are forgetting the American teams.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Movistar are getting butchered.

Javier Moreno is gone as well.

The bigger surprise is that they managed to hold such a strong team together, including both two of the strongest leaders in the sport and many good support riders and secondary leaders, for so long without having a megabudget.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Nick Schultz to Caja

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Movistar are getting butchered.

Javier Moreno is gone as well.

The bigger surprise is that they managed to hold such a strong team together, including both two of the strongest leaders in the sport and many good support riders and secondary leaders, for so long without having a megabudget.

Being the only Spanish-speaking team at WT level helps, though.

 

[ciranda]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

It's a familiar pattern. Many teams have space to give second and third chances to Morton, Bobridge, Blythe, Stetina ++ while guys with potential from nations with no big team never get a chance at all or gets abandoned after a difficult season. True you could argue the same for other nations' cyclists when for instance Jumbo Lotto contacts riders who have already stopped riding. With Hirt in this case he has similar or better results than Morton or McCarthy or whoever so of course there would be more interest if he was from another country.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Movistar are getting butchered.

Javier Moreno is gone as well.

The bigger surprise is that they managed to hold such a strong team together, including both two of the strongest leaders in the sport and many good support riders and secondary leaders, for so long without having a megabudget.

Being the only Spanish-speaking team at WT level helps, though.

Yes the near extinction of Spanish teams was a key factor letting them gather together so many quality riders for less than their market value. But ultimately, riders will get over their linguistic preferences and out of their comfort zone if there's a big enough pay gap to make it worth their while. And with Movistar not at the very top end of the budget ladder and with so much of their budget tied up with Valverde and Quintana, almost any rider on the team who performs will find that there's more money to be made elsewhere.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

It's a familiar pattern. Many teams have space to give second and third chances to Morton, Bobridge, Blythe, Stetina ++ while guys with potential from nations with no big team never get a chance at all or gets abandoned after a difficult season. True you could argue the same for other nations' cyclists when for instance Jumbo Lotto contacts riders who have already stopped riding. With Hirt in this case he has similar or better results than Morton or McCarthy or whoever so of course there would be more interest if he was from another country.

Of course riders from countries with pro teams have an advantage in getting a contract, but there's not much advantage in being from an Anglophone country without a pro team. If anything the single biggest leg up of this sort a rider could have in getting a pro contract is being French - there are six pro teams in France and these teams mostly have a stronger focus on domestic riders than other teams.

Anglophones get mentioned because the rise of teams based in English speaking countries is a relatively new phenomenon, but it was always harder for riders from countries outside the traditional heartlands to get professional rides. If anything the flood of Anglophone riders and teams has been part of a process of internationalisation that has made it a little easier for other riders from outside the "heartlands" to get a chance.

As for Hirt, he will probably get an offer from someone simply because he won a reasonably high profile race with a lot of climbing in it. But he represents a different kind of signing to a Peter Stetina. Hirt is an unknown. He has a higher potential top level than Stetina but he could also turn out to be worse. In particular, a team can't really know in advance what he's going to be like riding higher level races as a domestique day after day and week after week. Stetina on the other hand is a known quantity. He's a solid domestique, who can do unspectacular work very reliably and was a key support rider in a GT win. There's nothing speculative about signing him. He's a guy who is hired at a reasonable rate to do a particular job that everyone involved knows he can do.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

He will be 26 in January, with limited experience from major races and zero grand tours in his legs, it's too late to turn him into a WT climber.

I think you're too harsh. Look at Michael Woods. He definetely belongs to the WT level with this year's results and he was almost 28 when he participated in a WT race for the first time.

Woods is a bit like Roglič or Porte though, a late convert to the sport, so not as directly comparable to Hirt. A better example of somebody bossing it as a climber in the lower leagues before getting to the top table late on is Przemysław Niemiec, who had been on continental teams for nearly a decade before he signed for Lampre and entered his first WT race one month shy of his 31st birthday (Tirreno-Adriatico 2011). He was 5th in Lombardia his first year, but it was only when he was already 33 that he got his best results at the WT level, being top 10 consecutively in Tirreno, Catalunya, Trentino and most importantly the Giro.

At the same time you could also point at Victor de la Parte, who Movistar just signed. Apart from a brief spell at Caja Rural that came to an end when he was linked to the Jordi Riera group shopped by Xavi Tondó, this year with CCC, when he was already 29, was the first time he'd got to the Pro Conti level.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

He will be 26 in January, with limited experience from major races and zero grand tours in his legs, it's too late to turn him into a WT climber.

I think you're too harsh. Look at Michael Woods. He definetely belongs to the WT level with this year's results and he was almost 28 when he participated in a WT race for the first time.

Woods is a bit like Roglič or Porte though, a late convert to the sport, so not as directly comparable to Hirt. A better example of somebody bossing it as a climber in the lower leagues before getting to the top table late on is Przemysław Niemiec, who had been on continental teams for nearly a decade before he signed for Lampre and entered his first WT race one month shy of his 31st birthday (Tirreno-Adriatico 2011). He was 5th in Lombardia his first year, but it was only when he was already 33 that he got his best results at the WT level, being top 10 consecutively in Tirreno, Catalunya, Trentino and most importantly the Giro.

At the same time you could also point at Victor de la Parte, who Movistar just signed. Apart from a brief spell at Caja Rural that came to an end when he was linked to the Jordi Riera group shopped by Xavi Tondó, this year with CCC, when he was already 29, was the first time he'd got to the Pro Conti level.

Niemiec is a good example, the de la Parte discussion on the other hand belongs to another subforum.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

He will be 26 in January, with limited experience from major races and zero grand tours in his legs, it's too late to turn him into a WT climber.

I think you're too harsh. Look at Michael Woods. He definetely belongs to the WT level with this year's results and he was almost 28 when he participated in a WT race for the first time.

Woods is a bit like Roglič or Porte though, a late convert to the sport, so not as directly comparable to Hirt. A better example of somebody bossing it as a climber in the lower leagues before getting to the top table late on is Przemysław Niemiec, who had been on continental teams for nearly a decade before he signed for Lampre and entered his first WT race one month shy of his 31st birthday (Tirreno-Adriatico 2011). He was 5th in Lombardia his first year, but it was only when he was already 33 that he got his best results at the WT level, being top 10 consecutively in Tirreno, Catalunya, Trentino and most importantly the Giro.

At the same time you could also point at Victor de la Parte, who Movistar just signed. Apart from a brief spell at Caja Rural that came to an end when he was linked to the Jordi Riera group shopped by Xavi Tondó, this year with CCC, when he was already 29, was the first time he'd got to the Pro Conti level.

Niemiec is a good example, the de la Parte discussion on the other hand belongs to another subforum.

Why would you ever say that? Just because de la Parte shattered the Kitzbühler climbing record?

 

[thehook]

Re: Re:

He will be 26 in January, with limited experience from major races and zero grand tours in his legs, it's too late to turn him into a WT climber.

I think you're too harsh. Look at Michael Woods. He definetely belongs to the WT level with this year's results and he was almost 28 when he participated in a WT race for the first time.

100% Agree. Woods took some time to be discovered. I believe he was a top marathoner in Canada. Before switching to Road Cycling

 

[May0maniac]

There's also the whole Jordi Riera thing.
Freaking Team Vorarlberg, just when he left they signed Sérgio Sousa.
Yeah, de la Parte to Movistar is a surprise.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Nick Schultz to Caja

Very surprising, I guess they're happy looking at overseas climbers now too, with Carthy and now Schultz. I hope that Schultz develops like Carthy has.

 

[TMP402]

Obviously the big casualty is Africans leaving the WT, but actually the less covered angle is the double whammy of Tinkoff disappearing at the same time as Katusha go international. And Astana aren't picking up the slack either.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Thwaites is also a good addition to Cav's train.

Yes, like most cobbled specialists he doubles pretty well as a big lump domestique.

I don't think Bora used him much as a sprint helper, but that's because their "train" has usually been two or three guys to put Bennett in position rather than an attempt to take over the front of the race. DD on the other hand would have a use for his horsepower.

Kind of a flop move from Thwaites though, having said he'd definitely be WT next year.

Well, he presumably thought that DD would be WT next year when he said that. In any case, there just aren't that many teams that would offer him a role that he'd want. Not every team cares about the cobbles races and of the ones that do, most WT teams wouldn't offer him leadership or a free role in those races. He did well this season, but we are still talking about someone whose selling point is that he got a lot of placings in smaller cobbled races.

 

[Ruudz0r]

SL Henao will stay with Sky for (at least) 2 more years:

“La recuperación va muy bien, ya estoy casi al 100%”, indicó. “Respecto a mi futuro, es cierto que se han dicho muchas cosas, pero sigo en Sky por dos temporadas más”, agregó

http://www.ciclismointernacional.com/sergio-henao-sigue-en-sky-he-renovado-por-dos-temporadas/

 

[kev1n]

Re: Re:

Thwaites is also a good addition to Cav's train.

Yes, like most cobbled specialists he doubles pretty well as a big lump domestique.

I don't think Bora used him much as a sprint helper, but that's because their "train" has usually been two or three guys to put Bennett in position rather than an attempt to take over the front of the race. DD on the other hand would have a use for his horsepower.

Kind of a flop move from Thwaites though, having said he'd definitely be WT next year.

Well, he presumably thought that DD would be WT next year when he said that. In any case, there just aren't that many teams that would offer him a role that he'd want. Not every team cares about the cobbles races and of the ones that do, most WT teams wouldn't offer him leadership or a free role in those races. He did well this season, but we are still talking about someone whose selling point is that he got a lot of placings in smaller cobbled races.

Agreed. The analysis in your earlier post and this one are spot on.. He had interest from a handful of WT teams inc. Sky which explains his comment at the time. He wanted to continue his development rather than "carry bottles" all season, so chose a team that needed to strengthen their classics squad, but did not leave him well down the pecking order. He was on the verge of signing for one team when DD came late to the party with an improved offer. If they do get relegated he will be a very well paid Div 2 rider and should get the races he wants anyway.

 

[Kokoso]

When cycling is ever more dominated by the English-speaking world it's not super crazy to fear Hirt (and others) might not get offers from big teams. He is clearly good enough for grand tours by the way. But many many teams choose riders from language and press exposure criteria over athletic quality and potential.

Yes, with Dimension Data on the way out, Bora, Bahrain and TJ on their way in, the peloton is going to be even more Anglo.

It's a familiar pattern. Many teams have space to give second and third chances to Morton, Bobridge, Blythe, Stetina ++ while guys with potential from nations with no big team never get a chance at all or gets abandoned after a difficult season. True you could argue the same for other nations' cyclists when for instance Jumbo Lotto contacts riders who have already stopped riding. With Hirt in this case he has similar or better results than Morton or McCarthy or whoever so of course there would be more interest if he was from another country.

Agree. Riders from smaller countries have it more difficult to get decent contract.

Rumour is Wanty tried to persuade Hirt to be their leader at Tour de France next year.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Davide Cimolai -> FDJ

 

[May0maniac]

Any news about the whole Rosa to Sky thing?
With ilbert leaving BMC would probably be the best option for him, leader in the hilly classics (ok, GVA will probably be th leader in LBL, but he should at least be a co-leader) and a protected rider at the Giro or the Vuelta and at least co-leaader in a few one week races like Pais Vasco, in terms of being able to ride for himself that would probably be one of the best options for him.