Transfers and Rumours 2018 > 2019

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

They are at Sky. I'll take the words of those who are NOT there over the words of anyone who IS there. They don't want to PO their bosses. Also Froome and Thomas are very good friends so of course they are going to talk. Others who have left Sky have said similar things to Dowsett.

Thomas could have done what Richie did but chose to stay. He was smart enough to recognize that his best chance of winning a GT would be with Sky. What Porte did was obviously a gamble that hasn't paid off. Not all his own fault of course. As for Dowsett he was obviously unhappy because he left. Thomas would have done the same if he felt the same way. Some get frustrated by the lack of opportunities but others seem okay about it.

If you just care about the paycheck then it doesn't matter if you have opportunities or not. If you are looking for a payday and do NOT care about developing or about showing what you can actually do then you go to Sky. If you want to develop and want to have opportunities then you do NOT go to Sky. If you are only ever going to be a domestique then it doesn't matter. Maybe Soler doesn't think he is good enough to ever be more than a domestique. Then sure go to Sky and get a huge paycheck.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Poels has certainly done that. I think Moscon will move eventually on unless he is part of Sky's future plans, if he can behave himself of course. Kwia seems happy at Sky. He still gets to target the classics and the shorter stage races. Movistar need a result in the Vuelta. At least a podium. Soler had a great Tour.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Poels has certainly done that. I think Moscon will move eventually on unless he is part of Sky's future plans, if he can behave himself of course. Kwia seems happy at Sky. He still gets to target the classics and the shorter stage races. Movistar need a result in the Vuelta. At least a podium. Soler had a great Tour.

Moscon needs to learn how to behave regardless of rather he stays at Sky or not.

Sky doesn't seem to care much about classics so a guy like Kwait who is more of a classics rider to begin with gets his freedom there.
Soler did have a very good Tour. The team couldn't capitalize on his great work.
From comments Valverde said today, I'm expecting the Vuelta to be as disastrous for them as what the Tour was. He said something about he had fun at the Tour (which from the way he said it, was all he was looking for out of the Tour) and that he's going to the Vuelta strictly to use it as training for the Worlds which is the only thing he's actually planning for for the entire 2nd half of the season and that they are again going with 3 leaders to the Vuelta. Thus doing exactly the same thing they did at the Tour.

 

[yaco]

Well if Sky land Pinot and Soler that will put pressure on their budget which suggests they will be losing riders.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Well if Sky land Pinot and Soler that will put pressure on their budget which suggests they will be losing riders.

There is also a rumor that Amador is going to Sky as well.

Or they'll just a large budget increase.

 

[dastott]

I find it hard to believe that Sky want to sign Pinot, and certainly not as a leader unless Thomas is definitely leaving. Soler however could be a good signing for both him and Sky. Sky seemingly likes riders who do well at Paris-Nice, he can TT & climb and they have a large Spanish speaking contingent of riders. As for leadership roles, maybe at Giro or Vuelta in a year or two, probably as a co-leader with Bernal or someone else. He would take pressure off Bernal also.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

I find it hard to believe that Sky want to sign Pinot, and certainly not as a leader unless Thomas is definitely leaving. Soler however could be a good signing for both him and Sky. Sky seemingly likes riders who do well at Paris-Nice, he can TT & climb and they have a large Spanish speaking contingent of riders. As for leadership roles, maybe at Giro or Vuelta in a year or two, probably as a co-leader with Bernal or someone else. He would take pressure off Bernal also.

Except Soler has as of right now led a grand total of 2 races. Bernal has pretty much led the same number of races. It's not like either one could do anything to take any pressure off the other one. Also Bernal is younger and a better climber. No way Soler is given leadership of anything at Sky. He'd be going strictly as a domestique. If he stays at Movistar he'll eventually get more leadership roles.

 

[dastott]

Re: Re:

No way Soler is given leadership of anything at Sky. He'd be going strictly as a domestique. If he stays at Movistar he'll eventually get more leadership roles.

It's probably too early to say that with any certainty. Sky will be hoping to develop Soler so that he can improve his weaknesses. By all accounts, Sky is the place to be for structured support, in contrast to Movistar. Maybe he has heard good things from Castro. Maybe he would rather ride for Froome and Thomas than Quintana. All speculation.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

No way Soler is given leadership of anything at Sky. He'd be going strictly as a domestique. If he stays at Movistar he'll eventually get more leadership roles.

It's probably too early to say that with any certainty. Sky will be hoping to develop Soler so that he can improve his weaknesses. By all accounts, Sky is the place to be for structured support, in contrast to Movistar. Maybe he has heard good things from Castro. Maybe he would rather ride for Froome and Thomas than Quintana. All speculation.

Oh it wouldn't shock me at all that he may prefer to ride for literally any other GC rider in the peloton than Quintana. Almost all of the Movistar domestiques that have left over the past 3 years have stated they had had enough of Quintana and many have tried to talk Valverde into leaving for a different team as well. Truthfully I believe the longer Quintana stays the less relevant Movistar becomes and if Valverde retires while Quintana is still their the team will have major problems. I don't think they realize how much trouble they are actually in because Valverde masks a lot of their problems. However, when your 38 yr old rider has half your team's wins, it's should be looked at as a problem. There are rumors that the Izagirre brothers have said that if Quintana leaves Movistar they'll go back, but as long as Quintana is there they want no part of the team.
Now that comparison between Sky and Movistar I suspect to be extremely accurate. Have seen that comparison by several riders.

 

[dastott]

Interesting indeed. It does seem very strange that they have lost many of their best Spanish riders these last 2 seasons. I guess as long as Quintana is winning big things he might be tolerated by his domestiques but the last 2 seasons have been below expectation.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I find it hard to believe that Sky want to sign Pinot, and certainly not as a leader unless Thomas is definitely leaving. Soler however could be a good signing for both him and Sky. Sky seemingly likes riders who do well at Paris-Nice, he can TT & climb and they have a large Spanish speaking contingent of riders. As for leadership roles, maybe at Giro or Vuelta in a year or two, probably as a co-leader with Bernal or someone else. He would take pressure off Bernal also.

The only reason they would sign Pinot is to ride the Giro as leader if Thomas left. Poels seems happy as a domestique and there is doubts about him as a team leader for three weeks. Another reason would be if they intend to hold back Bernal from leadership for another year in grand tours. I think they will. There was even another rumor of Sky being interested in Porte before the Trek news but I never believed it.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

No way Soler is given leadership of anything at Sky. He'd be going strictly as a domestique. If he stays at Movistar he'll eventually get more leadership roles.

It's probably too early to say that with any certainty. Sky will be hoping to develop Soler so that he can improve his weaknesses. By all accounts, Sky is the place to be for structured support, in contrast to Movistar. Maybe he has heard good things from Castro. Maybe he would rather ride for Froome and Thomas than Quintana. All speculation.

Oh it wouldn't shock me at all that he may prefer to ride for literally any other GC rider in the peloton than Quintana. Almost all of the Movistar domestiques that have left over the past 3 years have stated they had had enough of Quintana and many have tried to talk Valverde into leaving for a different team as well. Truthfully I believe the longer Quintana stays the less relevant Movistar becomes and if Valverde retires while Quintana is still their the team will have major problems. I don't think they realize how much trouble they are actually in because Valverde masks a lot of their problems. However, when your 38 yr old rider has half your team's wins, it's should be looked at as a problem. There are rumors that the Izagirre brothers have said that if Quintana leaves Movistar they'll go back, but as long as Quintana is there they want no part of the team.
Now that comparison between Sky and Movistar I suspect to be extremely accurate. Have seen that comparison by several riders.

So what is the problem with Quintana ?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Well if Sky land Pinot and Soler that will put pressure on their budget which suggests they will be losing riders.

There is also a rumor that Amador is going to Sky as well.

Or they'll just a large budget increase.

How many rouleurs can Movistar lose - 2 x Izagirre, 2 x Herrada, Sutherland, maybe Erviti and Amador - Something wrong must be happening at the team.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Well if Sky land Pinot and Soler that will put pressure on their budget which suggests they will be losing riders.

There is also a rumor that Amador is going to Sky as well.

Or they'll just a large budget increase.

How many rouleurs can Movistar lose - 2 x Izagirre, 2 x Herrada, Sutherland, maybe Erviti and Amador - Something wrong must be happening at the team.

Maybe money issues ?

 

[mariposa]

Re: Re:

Oh it wouldn't shock me at all that he may prefer to ride for literally any other GC rider in the peloton than Quintana. Almost all of the Movistar domestiques that have left over the past 3 years have stated they had had enough of Quintana and many have tried to talk Valverde into leaving for a different team as well. Truthfully I believe the longer Quintana stays the less relevant Movistar becomes and if Valverde retires while Quintana is still their the team will have major problems. I don't think they realize how much trouble they are actually in because Valverde masks a lot of their problems. However, when your 38 yr old rider has half your team's wins, it's should be looked at as a problem. There are rumors that the Izagirre brothers have said that if Quintana leaves Movistar they'll go back, but as long as Quintana is there they want no part of the team.
Now that comparison between Sky and Movistar I suspect to be extremely accurate. Have seen that comparison by several riders.[/quote]

You keep saying about that the guys who have left Movistar saying they have had enough of Quintana and rumours about the Izagirre brothers coming back if he leaves. Do you have some actual links to reports of this discontent and rumours or do you have a personal pipeline to the team? Doesn't matter what language they are in . I know that Visconti had a go but then he had a go at most people.

 

[mariposa]

Re: Re:

How many rouleurs can Movistar lose - 2 x Izagirre, 2 x Herrada, Sutherland, maybe Erviti and Amador - Something wrong must be happening at the team.[/quote]

Maybe money issues ?[/quote]

Probably part of it at least. Paying 3 riders like Valverde, Landa and Quintana must stretch the budget quite a bit when you don't have an enormous budget to start with. It certainly leaves them vulnerable to other teams poaching their better support riders . This certainly was the case with Castro and Sky and Ion and Gorka with Bahrain, although Ion was offered a greater freedom on leadership as well. I was surprised that Sutherland left but it seems he may have been offered a chance to stay with the team going forward to help with the development of younger riders and of course he is riding with Dan Martin who is a good friend. I think that Jesus want to be given more freedom to ride for himself and he was very low on the leadership pecking order at Movistar.Jose just seems to go where his brother does. It remains to be seen whether Imanol and Andre leave. If they want a couple of big pay packets towards the end of their careers than a move may be the only way to achieve that.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Soler would be great for Sky and vice versa. He would develop into a beast in the Sky-train and eventually he would get his chances if he's good enough just like everyone else at Sky does. Pinot to Sky I don't see happening. At least it doesn't make any sense to me as Pinot wouldn't add much to the team.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

They are at Sky. I'll take the words of those who are NOT there over the words of anyone who IS there. They don't want to PO their bosses. Also Froome and Thomas are very good friends so of course they are going to talk. Others who have left Sky have said similar things to Dowsett.

Thomas could have done what Richie did but chose to stay. He was smart enough to recognize that his best chance of winning a GT would be with Sky. What Porte did was obviously a gamble that hasn't paid off. Not all his own fault of course. As for Dowsett he was obviously unhappy because he left. Thomas would have done the same if he felt the same way. Some get frustrated by the lack of opportunities but others seem okay about it.

Thomas got lucky that Froome got so greedy. He was never entirely plan A.

 

[Hakkapelit]

Why are Movi doms leaving bc of Quintana, is he bossy and whiny?

 

[mariposa]

Re:

Why are Movi doms leaving bc of Quintana, is he bossy and whiny?

I would like to see some evidence of this so called discontent before I believe something which could just have easily have been invented. Personally I can only recall Visconti moaning, and he moans about everyone. Someone saying it in an internet forum doesn't make it true. If there is some evidence then let's see some links to the reports.

I

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Well if Sky land Pinot and Soler that will put pressure on their budget which suggests they will be losing riders.

There is also a rumor that Amador is going to Sky as well.

Or they'll just a large budget increase.

How many rouleurs can Movistar lose - 2 x Izagirre, 2 x Herrada, Sutherland, maybe Erviti and Amador - Something wrong must be happening at the team.

Also Bennati will likely leave, last winter he said that Unzue offered him an extension for 2019 but he refused.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

They are at Sky. I'll take the words of those who are NOT there over the words of anyone who IS there. They don't want to PO their bosses. Also Froome and Thomas are very good friends so of course they are going to talk. Others who have left Sky have said similar things to Dowsett.

I expect Xabier Artetxe, Xabier Zandio & Benat Intxausti have something to do with Soler & Amador heading for Sky if the rumours pan out. Xabier Zandio in particular has recruited several Spanish speaking riders in the past.

 

[Koronin]

Money issues, maybe, except in the past many Spanish riders have chosen to stay at Movistar for less than they could get elsewhere.
Also a mass exodus of good domestiques. If Soler, Erviti, and Amador, and it seems Benatti as well leave, what exactly does that leave the team with? It's been evident that they do NOT have anywhere near the level of domestiques they need to be a competitive GC team in most races.

 

[CTQ]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Dowsett has been at Sky in 2011-2012, pretty sure that things have changed since him and Wiggins left.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Dowsett has been at Sky in 2011-2012, pretty sure that things have changed since him and Wiggins left.

yeah sounds like more a Wiggins thing than anything else - i think he once refused a British teammate a lift on his plane