Transfers and Rumours 2018 > 2019

[Akuryo]

Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

So go to Quickstep and pull a few more "Terpstras" aka not actually riding as the captain and yet still winning.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

But who will be there from DD to support Valgren at the end of one day classics - He hasn't yet shown the ability like a Boonen or Cancellara to ride away from the final group yet - For me Astana should be his number one choice followed by Trek - Leave out DD and Sky.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

But who will be there from DD to support Valgren at the end of one day classics - He hasn't yet shown the ability like a Boonen or Cancellara to ride away from the final group yet - For me Astana should be his number one choice followed by Trek - Leave out DD and Sky.

I agree. He shouldn't forget that he won tactical victories.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

But who will be there from DD to support Valgren at the end of one day classics - He hasn't yet shown the ability like a Boonen or Cancellara to ride away from the final group yet - For me Astana should be his number one choice followed by Trek - Leave out DD and Sky.

I don't recall the team doing much for him this year, outside of Fuglsang helping him in Amstel.

Also, on DD, Valgren will be an outright classics captain, with the whole team riding for him - at Astana he won't.

So even if DD is a marginally worse team in the classics, it would still benefit him to go there, as he could ride every single race to win it.

Whether the ability is there, for such "Van Avermaetesque" responsibility..... we'll see next season

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

But who will be there from DD to support Valgren at the end of one day classics - He hasn't yet shown the ability like a Boonen or Cancellara to ride away from the final group yet - For me Astana should be his number one choice followed by Trek - Leave out DD and Sky.

I don't recall the team doing much for him this year, outside of Fuglsang helping him in Amstel.

Also, on DD, Valgren will be an outright classics captain, with the whole team riding for him - at Astana he won't.

So even if DD is a marginally worse team in the classics, it would still benefit him to go there, as he could ride every single race to win it.

Whether the ability is there, for such "Van Avermaetesque" responsibility..... we'll see next season

What - Astana had three riders in the final break at Het Niuewsblaad and two riders at Amstel Gold - Astana has a strong classics group which suits their riders.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Valgren has to be careful with any proposed move - Yes he won Het Nieuwsbled and Amstel Gold but these were when he attacked the group after n Astana had multiple riders in the lead group.

I think it all depends, how he wants to ride the GTs.

If he wants to be a captain in one day races and short stage races, but a domestique in GTs, he will select a team with a viable GT captain, i.e. Trek (likely) or Sky (less likely)..... he proved this tour (and last year as well), that he has the potential to be as good as Kwiatkowski as a GT road captain.

If he wants a free role in GTs as well, he will go to DD (likely) or QS (less likely).

Personally I'd recommend DD, because there he will more or less be able to pick and choose his races, and be a priority rider in those he ride.

But who will be there from DD to support Valgren at the end of one day classics - He hasn't yet shown the ability like a Boonen or Cancellara to ride away from the final group yet - For me Astana should be his number one choice followed by Trek - Leave out DD and Sky.

I don't recall the team doing much for him this year, outside of Fuglsang helping him in Amstel.

Also, on DD, Valgren will be an outright classics captain, with the whole team riding for him - at Astana he won't.

So even if DD is a marginally worse team in the classics, it would still benefit him to go there, as he could ride every single race to win it.

Whether the ability is there, for such "Van Avermaetesque" responsibility..... we'll see next season

What - Astana had three riders in the final break at Het Niuewsblaad and two riders at Amstel Gold - Astana has a strong classics group which suits their riders.

You are missing the point.

It's not about having the strongest team, it's about being THE guy, instead of just one of them

 

[SafeBet]

Being THE guy might be a good way to never win anything relevant if your team is worthless.
Put Valgren in the same group at Omloop, with no teammates, and he probably doesn't win the race. Astana was perfect that day.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

Being THE guy might be a good way to never win anything relevant if your team is worthless.
Put Valgren in the same group at Omloop, with no teammates, and he probably doesn't win the race. Astana was perfect that day.

I agree to disagree

 

[staubsauger]

Why wouldn't Valgren just stay with Astana where the focus has been shifted to one day races and stage wins lately? Especially since his leaders on paper, Lutsenko & Fuglsang, are always happily allowing the domestiques to race for their own check, once they're stronger on a particular day. Astana still got a massive lineup to go stage hunting with LLS, Fraile, Valgren, Cort, Hirt, Cataldo, Bilbao & Co

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

Being THE guy might be a good way to never win anything relevant if your team is worthless.
Put Valgren in the same group at Omloop, with no teammates, and he probably doesn't win the race. Astana was perfect that day.

I agree to disagree

there are only 3 ways to win a classique:

1. you are 'invisible' (i.e. no one cares) and somehow make it to the line ... then a team like DD might be good enough, but once you have a track record (have won something in the past), your visibility rises, so surprise attacks will be more and more difficult ... you might well end up being the one race wonder ....

2. you are the guy who can win races like Gilbert won Flanders 2017 or Sagan Paris-Roubaix 2018 ... unless you actually are Gilbert or Sagan, it's highly unlikely you fall in this category ...

3. you are the or one of the 'protected riders' in a strong team, which can support you all the way to the final attack .... Quick Step won most of it's races this year, because their top riders were brought to were the game was decided within the last 30k, and they had various options in there, whereas other top tier riders were by the time on their own ... e.g. Sagan lost Flanders rather to Quick Step than to Terpstra alone (albeight the latter was admittedly very strong in that race) mostly because he had no teammate in the finale (having used up Oss a bit earlier) - when he had Burghardt seconding him to the line (Gent-Wevelgem) he won (I'm sure without Burghardt he would not have) ...

so in a nutshell: in classics, unless you are happy with a one off lucky strike, you will need the best possible team around you to win regularly (and of course the best possible team will only take you as the man they ride for, if you have a excellent track record of delivering ...)

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Being THE guy might be a good way to never win anything relevant if your team is worthless.
Put Valgren in the same group at Omloop, with no teammates, and he probably doesn't win the race. Astana was perfect that day.

I agree to disagree

there are only 3 ways to win a classique:

1. you are 'invisible' (i.e. no one cares) and somehow make it to the line ... then a team like DD might be good enough, but once you have a track record (have won something in the past), your visibility rises, so surprise attacks will be more and more difficult ... you might well end up being the one race wonder ....

2. you are the guy who can win races like Gilbert won Flanders 2017 or Sagan Paris-Roubaix 2018 ... unless you actually are Gilbert or Sagan, it's highly unlikely you fall in this category ...

3. you are the or one of the 'protected riders' in a strong team, which can support you all the way to the final attack .... Quick Step won most of it's races this year, because their top riders were brought to were the game was decided within the last 30k, and they had various options in there, whereas other top tier riders were by the time on their own ... e.g. Sagan lost Flanders rather to Quick Step than to Terpstra alone (albeight the latter was admittedly very strong in that race) mostly because he had no teammate in the finale (having used up Oss a bit earlier) - when he had Burghardt seconding him to the line (Gent-Wevelgem) he won (I'm sure without Burghardt he would not have) ...

so in a nutshell: in classics, unless you are happy with a one off lucky strike, you will need the best possible team around you to win regularly (and of course the best possible team will only take you as the man they ride for, if you have a excellent track record of delivering ...)

Buddy, you are talking like they have no classics riders at all.

Boasson Hagen, Pauwels, Slagter, Vermote & and King are fine in support roles...... and who is to say they are signing nobody else? - Everyone can see it's a team lacking leaders, especially with Cavendish being over the hill.

Valgren is clearly ripe for leadership (he already functions as Astana road captain), which he will get to a much greater degree at DD, than in any other team.

But hey, we are all just guessing... I just heard Riis say on TV during the rest day, that he was certain it was DD... and he is usually very well informed indeed, when it comes to his former riders - especially the danish ones

 

[MatParker117]

Nizzolo will leave Trek, I assume for an Italian PC team.

 

[Koronin]

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

Who knows. Soler is still learning and unfortunately if he goes to Sky that learning and development is going to be stopped.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Re: Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

Who knows. Soler is still learning and unfortunately if he goes to Sky that learning and development is going to be stopped.

I don’t know about that. Sky has so much available to riders from coaches to available facilities and learning from Froome. I can certainly see the allure.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

Who knows. Soler is still learning and unfortunately if he goes to Sky that learning and development is going to be stopped.

I don’t know about that. Sky has so much available to riders from coaches to available facilities and learning from Froome. I can certainly see the allure.

There is nothing he can learn from Froome that he can't learn from Valverde. Also Spaniards overall seem to have issues with Sky being so regimented.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Re: Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

Who knows. Soler is still learning and unfortunately if he goes to Sky that learning and development is going to be stopped.

I don’t know about that. Sky has so much available to riders from coaches to available facilities and learning from Froome. I can certainly see the allure.

There is nothing he can learn from Froome that he can't learn from Valverde. Also Spaniards overall seem to have issues with Sky being so regimented.

No disrespect meant at all to you or Valverde. But there is no comparing the GC grand tour talents of Froome and Valverde.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Rumor that Soler is leaving Movistar and heading to Sky.

Pinot and Soler potentially going to Sky? You have to think Thomas is leaving if both of those rumors are true.

Who knows. Soler is still learning and unfortunately if he goes to Sky that learning and development is going to be stopped.

I don’t know about that. Sky has so much available to riders from coaches to available facilities and learning from Froome. I can certainly see the allure.

There is nothing he can learn from Froome that he can't learn from Valverde. Also Spaniards overall seem to have issues with Sky being so regimented.

No disrespect meant at all to you or Valverde. But there is no comparing the GC grand tour talents of Froome and Valverde.[/quote]


There is no comparing the variety of Valverde's palmares to Froome's.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

They are at Sky. I'll take the words of those who are NOT there over the words of anyone who IS there. They don't want to PO their bosses. Also Froome and Thomas are very good friends so of course they are going to talk. Others who have left Sky have said similar things to Dowsett.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Valverde has won a lot of races in his career, but perhaps Soler wants to focus on grand tours. Sky is the place to go for a couple years then. He will learn a great deal.

He won't learn because he'll be nothing more than a domestique there. He won't be able to lead the team in ANY race. Thus he will NOT learn and won't grow. Also from things Dowsett has said at Sky domestiques can't even talk to the team leaders. There is a hierarchy and it exists throughout the entire structure. He won't be able to learn anything at all from Froome because he won't be able to even talk to him.

Riders like Thomas and Bernal and even Froome when he was younger tell a different story.

They are at Sky. I'll take the words of those who are NOT there over the words of anyone who IS there. They don't want to PO their bosses. Also Froome and Thomas are very good friends so of course they are going to talk. Others who have left Sky have said similar things to Dowsett.

Thomas could have done what Richie did but chose to stay. He was smart enough to recognize that his best chance of winning a GT would be with Sky. What Porte did was obviously a gamble that hasn't paid off. Not all his own fault of course. As for Dowsett he was obviously unhappy because he left. Thomas would have done the same if he felt the same way. Some get frustrated by the lack of opportunities but others seem okay about it.