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Teams & Riders Transfers and Rumours 2019 > 2020

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Re:

Anderis said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
DNP-Old said:
LaFlorecita said:
DNP-Old said:
Seems like a new trend is unfolding, because it is rumoured Tiberi and Piccolo, two of Italy’s biggest talents in years, will follow the example and turn pro with Trek and Astana respectively. Very bad development. Remco isn’t the norm.
Exactly. These boys should be nurtured at (pro) Conti level for a year or two, not thrown into the deep end. Not all talents are Evenepoel, Sagan or Bernal.
Yup. I’m certain that if you threw Van Wilder, who was great as a junior, but unfortunately overshadowed by the insanity of Remco, and currently is one of the best first year U23s in years to World Tour level, he wouldn’t do anything noteworthy for a year or two. This needs to stop.

Marco Brenner is by far the best junior this season at 16 years old. What’s next, him turning pro with BORA at the age of 17? For every successful rider, there’ll be many more failures, and it’s a massive waste of exciting talent.
Can't help but think teams are trying to beat Ineos to the punch, with them snatching Sosa, Bernal, Sivakov, Dunbar, Hart... early on. We know they were going after Evenepoel as well, and that under normal circumstances, Evenepoel was going to ride for Hagen Bermans Axeon, for at least 6 to 12 months, before moving to DQS. It was because Sky made a move, DQS were forced to reel him in immediately and have him skip the U23 alltogether.

I honestly do think that has changed the way teams are looking for young talent.

Imagine Ineos snatching Evenepoel and Pogacar as well. We could stop watching GT's for the next 10 years.
I don't think it's Ineos' fault. I see similar patterns in other sports disciplines. Teams try to snatch the biggest talents as fast as possible.to reap benefits later on. It's easier to scout the best talents in lower ranks than it was not so long ago because the access to information in general in all aspects of life has been increasing rapidly with modern technology. Teams have to do that in order to keep up because there's no reason not to try to secure the biggest talents in advance before others lock them up on long-term deals. Of course for every next big star there might be 3 or 4 guys promoted too early or not being able to deliver the promise but that how it goes. Having that next Sagan or Bernal at your team as soon as possible and not only after they have proven themselves is worth it even if it doesn't work out like that with every rider you try. Also having these riders under the best training staff etc. might accelerate their development compared to them being groomed steadily in lesser teams.

As I said, it's not because of Ineos because it happens in other disciplines. For example in F1 20 or 30 years ago a typical career would look like: you spend many years driving less powerful cars, step up to F1 in your mid 20-ties, spend a couple of seasons with back/midfield team and prove yourself an option for a top team this way. Nowadays you step up to lower racing series at 16, if you're good, you're snatched by one of the big teams within a year or two and getting bond with a long-term commitment. By late teens or early 20-ties the big team has found a seat at back/midfield F1 team for you, you have 1-2 years for yourself to prove and either they see a next Hamilton in you and put you immediately in a top seat or they do not and you hope to land one of the few remaining midfield seats left or you retire from F1 at 22-23 years old. Also in soccer they even had to introduce some rules to prevent the biggest clubs from transferring children from all over the world to their youth teams if I'm not mistaken because it was happening on a large scale.

Btw. I'm surprised we seem not to have any significant transfer confirmed, yet (as least for men's WT). IIRC a couple of years ago several teams ruished to confirm some transfers by afternoon of August 1st.
Yes, i know this is standard practice in Football. I know Formula 1 has teams do similar things...

But honestly, those comparisons don't make much sense imho. First of all, in order to get into F1, you need a lot of money. Even carting costs bucketloads. And there are simply not nearly as many people in this sports branch as in football or cycling. In a country where there are literally thousands of cyclists and footballers in youth divisions, you'll be hard pressed to find a few dozen that get into a decent level of motorsports.

And while every European town, and even village, has its own football club, there are only 18 WT cycling teams... worldwide. Even a 2nd division Belgian football club, has a bigger budget, than a top cycling outfit like DQS.

Basically, there is a lot less money in cycling, even for the best teams in the world, compared to football. Then there is but a fraction of teams worldwide, compared to football, where a cyclist can go to build a career.

Sure every teamsport has teams look for talent as early as possible, the difference is, because of this discrepancy in budgets between football and cycling, in football it actually "makes sense", to throw money at every somewhat talented player, hoping he develops into a top player. There are still plenty of teams to loan them out to. This isn't the case in cycling, since there are only a fraction of teams to begin with, and there simply isn't the budget to attract 500 cyclists per team. In football, 500 youth players is nothing, for an ambitious club.

Enter Ineos. They do have the budget to throw at riders, hoping to come good. And that's what they've been doing. Buy buy buy buy, regardless of what happens to these riders when they start canibalizing their own teammates. There is no way of knowing if a 17 year old cycling talent, is ever going to live up to expectations, that's why in cycling, it often takes up to 24 - 25 before riders show their true potential. Peaking between 28-32. In football, if you haven't shown your potential before turning 18, chances are they'll have cut you lose by then. If Ineos is going to start buying every talented 17 year old, hoping to come good 10 years down the line, they'll leave a graveyard of wrecked careers and wasted potential.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Anderis said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
DNP-Old said:
DNP-Old said:
Seems like a new trend is unfolding, because it is rumoured Tiberi and Piccolo, two of Italy’s biggest talents in years, will follow the example and turn pro with Trek and Astana respectively. Very bad development. Remco isn’t the norm.
Exactly. These boys should be nurtured at (pro) Conti level for a year or two, not thrown into the deep end. Not all talents are Evenepoel, Sagan or Bernal.
Yup. I’m certain that if you threw Van Wilder, who was great as a junior, but unfortunately overshadowed by the insanity of Remco, and currently is one of the best first year U23s in years to World Tour level, he wouldn’t do anything noteworthy for a year or two. This needs to stop.

Marco Brenner is by far the best junior this season at 16 years old. What’s next, him turning pro with BORA at the age of 17? For every successful rider, there’ll be many more failures, and it’s a massive waste of exciting talent.
Can't help but think teams are trying to beat Ineos to the punch, with them snatching Sosa, Bernal, Sivakov, Dunbar, Hart... early on. We know they were going after Evenepoel as well, and that under normal circumstances, Evenepoel was going to ride for Hagen Bermans Axeon, for at least 6 to 12 months, before moving to DQS. It was because Sky made a move, DQS were forced to reel him in immediately and have him skip the U23 alltogether.

I honestly do think that has changed the way teams are looking for young talent.

Imagine Ineos snatching Evenepoel and Pogacar as well. We could stop watching GT's for the next 10 years.
I don't think it's Ineos' fault. I see similar patterns in other sports disciplines. Teams try to snatch the biggest talents as fast as possible.to reap benefits later on. It's easier to scout the best talents in lower ranks than it was not so long ago because the access to information in general in all aspects of life has been increasing rapidly with modern technology. Teams have to do that in order to keep up because there's no reason not to try to secure the biggest talents in advance before others lock them up on long-term deals. Of course for every next big star there might be 3 or 4 guys promoted too early or not being able to deliver the promise but that how it goes. Having that next Sagan or Bernal at your team as soon as possible and not only after they have proven themselves is worth it even if it doesn't work out like that with every rider you try. Also having these riders under the best training staff etc. might accelerate their development compared to them being groomed steadily in lesser teams.

As I said, it's not because of Ineos because it happens in other disciplines. For example in F1 20 or 30 years ago a typical career would look like: you spend many years driving less powerful cars, step up to F1 in your mid 20-ties, spend a couple of seasons with back/midfield team and prove yourself an option for a top team this way. Nowadays you step up to lower racing series at 16, if you're good, you're snatched by one of the big teams within a year or two and getting bond with a long-term commitment. By late teens or early 20-ties the big team has found a seat at back/midfield F1 team for you, you have 1-2 years for yourself to prove and either they see a next Hamilton in you and put you immediately in a top seat or they do not and you hope to land one of the few remaining midfield seats left or you retire from F1 at 22-23 years old. Also in soccer they even had to introduce some rules to prevent the biggest clubs from transferring children from all over the world to their youth teams if I'm not mistaken because it was happening on a large scale.

Btw. I'm surprised we seem not to have any significant transfer confirmed, yet (as least for men's WT). IIRC a couple of years ago several teams ruished to confirm some transfers by afternoon of August 1st.
Yes, i know this is standard practice in Football. I know Formula 1 has teams do similar things...

But honestly, those comparisons don't make much sense imho. First of all, in order to get into F1, you need a lot of money. Even carting costs bucketloads. And there are simply not nearly as many people in this sports branch as in football or cycling. In a country where there are literally thousands of cyclists and footballers in youth divisions, you'll be hard pressed to find a few dozen that get into a decent level of motorsports.

And while every European town, and even village, has its own football club, there are only 18 WT cycling teams... worldwide. Even a 2nd division Belgian football club, has a bigger budget, than a top cycling outfit like DQS.

Basically, there is a lot less money in cycling, even for the best teams in the world, compared to football. Then there is but a fraction of teams worldwide, compared to football, where a cyclist can go to build a career.

Sure every teamsport has teams look for talent as early as possible, the difference is, because of this discrepancy in budgets between football and cycling, in football it actually "makes sense", to throw money at every somewhat talented player, hoping he develops into a top player. There are still plenty of teams to loan them out to. This isn't the case in cycling, since there are only a fraction of teams to begin with, and there simply isn't the budget to attract 500 cyclists per team. In football, 500 youth players is nothing, for an ambitious club.

Enter Ineos. They do have the budget to throw at riders, hoping to come good. And that's what they've been doing. Buy buy buy buy, regardless of what happens to these riders when they start canibalizing their own teammates. There is no way of knowing if a 17 year old cycling talent, is ever going to live up to expectations, that's why in cycling, it often takes up to 24 - 25 before riders show their true potential. Peaking between 28-32. In football, if you haven't shown your potential before turning 18, chances are they'll have cut you lose by then. If Ineos is going to start buying every talented 17 year old, hoping to come good 10 years down the line, they'll leave a graveyard of wrecked careers and wasted potential.[/quote]


Over here that really only semi happens with hockey and baseball and not to the same degree. Even those two sports have drafts. You can't just sign the top athletes. You have to wait for the draft, then pick through the draft which players you want of who is available and it's done in reverse order of how you finished the regular season/plau offs. Part of why a draft wouldn't work in cycling. It does allow each team to try to get improve from one year to the next. Of course you can still get bad management and inept teams (see the Buffalo Bills and NY Jets specifically). The NBA and NFL use the colleges as their "minor leagues" while baseball and hockey have a minor league system, although the colleges are also used as part of that.
 
Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
It appears to be a contract year for every single Irish pro:

Dan Martin (UAE) -> Rumoured Total Direct Energie?
Eddie Dunbar (Ineos) ->
Ryan Mullen (Trek) ->
Nicolas Roche (Sunweb) ->
Sam Bennett (Bora) -> Rumoured Deceuninck Quickstep
Conor Dunne (ICA) ->
Stephen Clancy (Novo Nordisk) -> Will presumably stay if team continues

I would expect all of them to get another pro contract somewhere, apart from Clancy who is only likely to get one where he is. I’ve heard no rumours about any other Irish riders joining the pro ranks unless Pro Evo Racing goes Pro Conti.
I guess Dunbar will be offered new contract with Ineos
 
Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
Squire said:
Kristoffer Halvorsen to EF according to procycling.no.
It is hard to see his time at Sky as anything other than wasted - and it was predictable that it would be. If he won four stages of the Vuelta, then maybe we'd be in business.
He's also been a huge disappointment himself. The few flashes of brilliance he's shown have just amplified that feeling.
 
Re: Re:

del1962 said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
It appears to be a contract year for every single Irish pro:

Dan Martin (UAE) -> Rumoured Total Direct Energie?
Eddie Dunbar (Ineos) ->
Ryan Mullen (Trek) ->
Nicolas Roche (Sunweb) ->
Sam Bennett (Bora) -> Rumoured Deceuninck Quickstep
Conor Dunne (ICA) ->
Stephen Clancy (Novo Nordisk) -> Will presumably stay if team continues

I would expect all of them to get another pro contract somewhere, apart from Clancy who is only likely to get one where he is. I’ve heard no rumours about any other Irish riders joining the pro ranks unless Pro Evo Racing goes Pro Conti.
I guess Dunbar will be offered new contract with Ineos
Yes, it seems very likely. I’d guess Mullen will stay at Trek and Dunne at ICA too.
 
Viviani, Sabatini, and Consonni to Cofidis, according to La Gazzetta. That woukd be a solid foundation for a sprint train and Consonni would probably get more chances to ride for himself in one day races.
 
Re:

Mayomaniac said:
Viviani, Sabatini, and Consonni to Cofidis, according to La Gazzetta. That woukd be a solid foundation for a sprint train and Consonni would probably get more chances to ride for himself in one day races.
I am certain it'll be a disaster. Not only do riders fall off a cliff in their level once they leave Lefevere, in the process Viviani gets two of the worst lead out riders I can think of. On the contrary, I'm looking at Bennett for victory champion of 2020 once he signs with Quick-Step.
 
Re: Re:

DNP-Old said:
Mayomaniac said:
Viviani, Sabatini, and Consonni to Cofidis, according to La Gazzetta. That woukd be a solid foundation for a sprint train and Consonni would probably get more chances to ride for himself in one day races.
I am certain it'll be a disaster. Not only do riders fall off a cliff in their level once they leave Lefevere, in the process Viviani gets two of the worst lead out riders I can think of. On the contrary, I'm looking at Bennett for victory champion of 2020 once he signs with Quick-Step.
You've got Soupe and Laporte there already as well.
 
Re:

Laplaz said:
Matteo Trentin to CCC, contract for 2020-21.
Ochowitz highlighted the fact that he's very versatile and can climb well, hopefully finally he'll stop focusing on the cobbles where at best he can snatch a top 10 and instead ride more harder race. I've never understood why he rides every year Roubaix where he has never finished in the top 30 whereas he never rode Liege despite that his best performances almost always come on very hilly or medium mountain terrain.

Anyway I think it's the first time we had only one new signing in the WT (and not more than half a dozen in total) after almost two days of riders market open.
 
Re: Re:

Nirvana said:
Laplaz said:
Matteo Trentin to CCC, contract for 2020-21.
Ochowitz highlighted the fact that he's very versatile and can climb well, hopefully finally he'll stop focusing on the cobbles where at best he can snatch a top 10 and instead ride more harder race. I've never understood why he rides every year Roubaix where he has never finished in the top 30 whereas he never rode Liege despite that his best performances almost always come on very hilly or medium mountain terrain.

Anyway I think it's the first time we had only one new signing in the WT (and not more than half a dozen in total) after almost two days of riders market open.
Agree that the silence is weird. I was expecting the usual rush of announcements.
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Nirvana said:
Laplaz said:
Matteo Trentin to CCC, contract for 2020-21.
Ochowitz highlighted the fact that he's very versatile and can climb well, hopefully finally he'll stop focusing on the cobbles where at best he can snatch a top 10 and instead ride more harder race. I've never understood why he rides every year Roubaix where he has never finished in the top 30 whereas he never rode Liege despite that his best performances almost always come on very hilly or medium mountain terrain.

Anyway I think it's the first time we had only one new signing in the WT (and not more than half a dozen in total) after almost two days of riders market open.
Agree that the silence is weird. I was expecting the usual rush of announcements.

I'm also a bit surprised by the silence. It's very odd. Had expected at least a few announcements.
 
Not a new signing as such, but Jaako Hanninen goes pro with AG2R. Has hardly raced this year due to a crash in May, and goes straight into their team for San Sebastian

EDIT - AG2R also take Champoussin as a stagiare
 
Re: Re:

Moviefan1203 said:
Mayomaniac said:
McNulty to UAE confirmed.
http://www.cicloweb.it/2019/08/02/gran-colpo-della-uae-team-emirates-ingaggiato-lo-statunitense-mcnulty/
Him, Ardila and Covi alongside Pogi, that's a lot of potential, not to mention the fact that they also have Philipsen for the sprints and Gaviria is still young.
I was hoping for more from him this season, but UAE hopefully can continue to develop his vast talent.
I think he had some health issues after the Giro di Sicilia, he should be able to bounce back.
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
Moviefan1203 said:
Mayomaniac said:
McNulty to UAE confirmed.
http://www.cicloweb.it/2019/08/02/gran-colpo-della-uae-team-emirates-ingaggiato-lo-statunitense-mcnulty/
Him, Ardila and Covi alongside Pogi, that's a lot of potential, not to mention the fact that they also have Philipsen for the sprints and Gaviria is still young.
I was hoping for more from him this season, but UAE hopefully can continue to develop his vast talent.
I think he had some health issues after the Giro di Sicilia, he should be able to bounce back.
Somehow I don't like every second major talent signs with UAE as long as Saronni is still in charge. It just has to go wrong at some point and then a young mans life is ruined.

That said, they've invested in new staff and try to build-up a strong team by developing talent with their budget instead of just matching Ineos with big paychecks, like you rightfully stated!
 
Re: Re:

staubsauger said:
Mayomaniac said:
Moviefan1203 said:
Mayomaniac said:
McNulty to UAE confirmed.
http://www.cicloweb.it/2019/08/02/gran-colpo-della-uae-team-emirates-ingaggiato-lo-statunitense-mcnulty/
Him, Ardila and Covi alongside Pogi, that's a lot of potential, not to mention the fact that they also have Philipsen for the sprints and Gaviria is still young.
I was hoping for more from him this season, but UAE hopefully can continue to develop his vast talent.
I think he had some health issues after the Giro di Sicilia, he should be able to bounce back.
Somehow I don't like every second major talent signs with UAE as long as Saronni is still in charge. It just has to go wrong at some point and then a young mans life is ruined.

That said, they've invested in new staff and try to build-up a strong team by developing talent with their budget instead of just matching Ineos with big paychecks, like you rightfully stated!
Saronni is only a PR figure that doesn't take any decision now, he was sacked from the TM role already last year and replaced by Maxtin, everything was done in the last year and an half was decided by Maxtin.
 
Re: Re:

DNP-Old said:
Mayomaniac said:
Viviani, Sabatini, and Consonni to Cofidis, according to La Gazzetta. That woukd be a solid foundation for a sprint train and Consonni would probably get more chances to ride for himself in one day races.
I am certain it'll be a disaster. Not only do riders fall off a cliff in their level once they leave Lefevere, in the process Viviani gets two of the worst lead out riders I can think of. On the contrary, I'm looking at Bennett for victory champion of 2020 once he signs with Quick-Step.
Wasn’t Viviani complaining after the Giro about how his lead out train (with Sabatini) wasn’t good enough? I don’t think it’ll be better at Cofidis. But anything will be an improvement for Cofidis.

Richeze is supposed to be on his way to UAE to work with Gaviria, so no guarantees for Bennett, unless he and Morkov strike up a particularly good relationship. I think Bennett will do well with QS, but it must be remembered that it was Richeze leading out Gaviria that made his 2017 Giro so miserable (5 podiums, no wins. Caleb Ewan was part of the problem too).
 
Viviani and Consonni are track cycling buddies, so they should get along. The bigger question is if you really want to have a small 60kg guy as your leadout man who will always have a sizde disadvantage if things get a bit physical durning the last few km and you're not the best at following your train...
 
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