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Mar 17, 2009
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jaylew said:
Most moronic post of the year so far. Do you even watch the races? I don't understand people who can't separate their like/dislike for an athlete from their performances. I can't stand Boonen, Cavendish or Lance but I can still appreciate their results.

How is it moronic? Look at Lamphangers TT results in the 2006 Tour and compare to 2007. How does he improve so much in a year? Is just down to JB's motivational techniques? Or of course it must be time spent in the wind tunnel.... it's not his performances he is disliked for but the dubious nature of them.
 
That's not the part I had a problem with. Everyone has different suspicions about different riders for various reasons. Nothing to be done about that. Personally, I'd rather wait for someone to test positive rather than try and make assumptions. I certainly need more than just "he improved a bunch" or I could never watch sports. There's got to be some hope of improvement without drugs, right? Sadly, though I don't specifiically suspect Levi, there isn't one rider in the peloton that I could hear about testing positive that would completely shock me at this point. It was more the suggestion that races like the Dauphine and Deutschland Tour were 'backyard' races and that finishing in the top 10 of the Tour 3 times was nothing.

And despite being a small guy, he's not exactly a string bean. His legs are damn near twice the size of Contadors and many of the other little climber types.
 
jaylew said:
Man, you really hate Levi! I'm simply saying are you surprised that someone gets touted and pushed as a GT contender after finishing 3rd in his 1st attempt? As for your TdF comparison, I'm sure I don't have to remind you he finished 3rd at the Tour, 31secs back from Yellow, while working for someone else, so I guess those who decided he has a GT contender were correct.

I don't think he'll do anything at the Giro, but I could be wrong. I just don't think it's a priority for him. Do you know if Kloden is scheduled to race there?[

He started working for Alberto at Tdf 07 when he realized, and I'm quoting his own words: "ALberto is fenomel he's a real contender" after AC had won at Plateu de Beile, and also the fact that Alberto finished better in that second TT, Levi was the leader by Alberto's own admission even in the middle of the tour but the leadership changed due to poor result from Levi's part.
 
Remember all the hate spewed in the direction of both the RCS and ASO for omitting "Team Astana" from the Giro and the Tour?
Bruyneel got a Giro invite on the condition the team included the top riders.

So what have we got this year? Lance? Totally lacking race fitness at best. If he turns up, which is highly unlikely, will ride gently for two weeks, then disappear.
Top team mate? Levi. Riding high, in seemingly great nick, but his supporters would prefer he did nothing at the world's second biggest Tour.
Or, they don't think he's up to tackling the likes of Basso.

In short, Astana will ride in name only, especially if fans get there way.

No, they prefer he ride the Tour, carrying water for Contador, Armstrong, maybe even Kloden, on the off chance that things might work out in his favour.

As for the palmares argument. A brief rundown on Levi's career.
USPS 3rd in his first Vuelta, behind.....Aitor Gonzalez and Oscar Sevilla.
Went to Rabobank: Contract not renewed, due to lack of results.
Went to Gerolsteiner: Won Germany and the Dauphine. Managed a couple of top 10 GC's but dropped 12 and a half minutes in two, long time trials.
Went back to Disco: Supposed to work for Contador, worked mostly for himself.
Turned a 6 minute loss, into a minute gain, in an almost identical time trial to 2006, to finish 3rd.
Wouldn't have podiumed if Rasmussen had remained in the race.

Landis (check out his palmares) was elevated to Tour favourite, on the strength of a good year's domestique work for Lance in 2004, flopping in 2005.
Won the 2006 Tour of Cali and Paris-Nice. Crashed and burned at the Dauphine.
We all know what happened next.

I was quite keen on Levi, while at Gerolsteiner, but I lost my faith off the back of the 2006/07 "improvement".
People talk about the possiblity of an Astana "clean sweep" at the Tour.
So what? I would argue, if they ignore the greatness of Centanary Giro.
He might regain some of that appeal, for me, were he to give the Giro his best shot.
He might actually have an achievable goal, there.
 
Mellow Velo said:
You sure can't read between the lines....

Excuse me for giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking that you had finally put aside your admitted disappointment with LL's past and was finally looking at the facts rationally. I mistakenly overestimated you. I promise it won't happen again.

Also let it be known that I was in the same mindset as yourself regarding Leipheimer until his performances in the past 2 years. While I am far from being a fan of his, I am no longer one of his detractors. I now give him the respect for his performances that I think he deserves while at the same time tolerating his seeming lack of ambition and his fingernails-against-the-chalk-board interviews.
 
Mellow Velo: I certainly hope Leipheimer goes for it at the Giro, and I think he will b/c he's showing such good early season form and he won't get to use it in July. Since his amazing Disco/Astana renaissance, the Giro seems suited to his abillities.

With Cunego being on form and Basso making his GT return, it could be an amazing race! (Plus imagine which Italian continental teams are going to be doping enough to put someone in the top five! :p)

Seriously though, I'm really getting excited for it, and I don't think Leipheimer will hold back. The best move for the team might be to ride it at 80% as training, but I don't see him accepting his role as domestique so readily.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
The best move for the team might be to ride it at 80% as training, but I don't see him accepting his role as domestique so readily.

erm.. have you seen Levi's dog "bandit"? He seems to be the submissive type...:rolleyes:

450_levi_leipheimer.jpg
 
Mellow Velo said:
Top team mate? Levi. Riding high, in seemingly great nick, but his supporters would prefer he did nothing at the world's second biggest Tour.

I'm a Levi fan(though a much bigger Contador fan) and while I would love to see him go for a win at the Giro I don't think it will happen. I think it might be a bit late for him to change his focus, but who knows? I agree it's a shame when someone w/ GT podium ability doesn't race 100% for themselves. It's always bugged me with Kloden as well.

As for the Giro I think it would be great if Astana just decided to make Levi the guy and let him go for it, but I think Bruyneel is so focused on winning the Tour with somebody that he's scared to let any of his big guns go all out at the Giro. Also, I suspect(unfortunately) that Lance has a lot of say so in these kind of decisions and I don't think he knows what he wants to do yet. It's weird, while I'm a fan of several of the Disco riders(Levi, Alberto, Horner), I'm not so much a fan of the team per se. Seems to me if you've got as many strong GC guys as they do you go for all 3 instead of having everyone peak for the Tour, but what do I know? I guess it's all about the TdF.
 
Give him his head somewhere.....anywhere, other than minor things like the Tour of California, or Castilla y Leon. Just to see if he can deliver and prove this sceptic wrong.
Send him to the Giro with a half decent squad.
Let him sink or swim, but as a leader, not a follower.

If he delivers, then fair enough.
If not, we'll don't say you weren't warned.
 
Not a Gran Tour leader

Mellow Velo said:
Give him his head somewhere.....anywhere, other than minor things like the Tour of California, or Castilla y Leon. Just to see if he can deliver and prove this sceptic wrong.
Send him to the Giro with a half decent squad.
Let him sink or swim, but as a leader, not a follower.

If he delivers, then fair enough.
If not, we'll don't say you weren't warned.

Specially becauase he was given the change of leader on Tdf 07 with a huge change due to lack of real GT contenders ie. Lance, Basso, Ulrich and what happened? he release he leader role to Contador, NO doubt he'll be hard to beat in TOC or a smaller race, but for a GT? How do I explain this?... is not like he doesn't have the physical goods, but the mind set is just at no avail.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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bianchigirl said:
Somebody remind me again what Leipheimer has actually ever won and what great rides I should remember him for? I can only ever remember seeing him sitting on someone's wheel - has he ever actually attacked? I'd be delighted to be corrected...
.

Perhaps you missed the Tour of California this year (or last year for that matter?) Seems there were a couple of decent attacks there....

What has he won? Oh, just little stuff like the Tour of Germany, Dauphine, Route de Sud....

I'm not the biggest Levi fan by any stretch, but I can at least give credit where due.

Glad I could delight you......;)
 
Power13 said:
Perhaps you missed the Tour of California this year (or last year for that matter?) Seems there were a couple of decent attacks there....

What has he won? Oh, just little stuff like the Tour of Germany, Dauphine, Route de Sud....

I'm not the biggest Levi fan by any stretch, but I can at least give credit where due.

Glad I could delight you......;)

I seem to recall someone saying something along these lines about Haussler, the MSR and Belgian classics.;) (missed Wednesday's D d Vlaanderen I take it)

There's a big difference between winning the Tour of California and the Tour de France.:rolleyes:

Route du Sud? Will be touting Dan Martin for the Tour soon?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Oh, I watched the ToC alright - then I watched P-N and T-A and anyone who would claim that the former race had stolen the prestige of either of the latter either didn't watch or wears peculiarly turquoise tinted glasses.

I'm well aware of Leipheimer's palmares - and still can't believe that such a relatively undistinguished rider is suddenly the great white GT hope. But I guess that's the fashion these days when riders spend more time preparing than racing.

Sorry to be tough on the duplicitous little snot but he really lacks the class of Contador, the Schlecklet, Nibali and a host of others. More interested in the new breed than hyping up another one of the old guard with a dubious past.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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bianchigirl said:
Oh, I watched the ToC alright - then I watched P-N and T-A and anyone who would claim that the former race had stolen the prestige of either of the latter either didn't watch or wears peculiarly turquoise tinted glasses.

I'm well aware of Leipheimer's palmares - and still can't believe that such a relatively undistinguished rider is suddenly the great white GT hope. But I guess that's the fashion these days when riders spend more time preparing than racing.

Sorry to be tough on the duplicitous little snot but he really lacks the class of Contador, the Schlecklet, Nibali and a host of others. More interested in the new breed than hyping up another one of the old guard with a dubious past.


Wait....you asked when he has attacked and you were given examples. You respond with distractions about the ToC supposedly stealing the prestige of P-N or T-A? Huh?

You asked what he has won and then claim to be aware of his palamares....well, which is it?

The great white GT hope? Lessee....2 Vuelta Podiums and one TdF podium. Yeah, guy has no potential in a GT.

So basically what it comes down to is that you don't like the "duplicitous little snot" and therfore choose to turn ignore the facts. Got it.

Again, I'm no Levi fan....overall, I find him boring. But he has done exactly what you accused him of NOT doing. It really is OK to admit you were wrong.;)
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
I seem to recall someone saying something along these lines about Haussler, the MSR and Belgian classics.;) (missed Wednesday's D d Vlaanderen I take it)

There's a big difference between winning the Tour of California and the Tour de France.:rolleyes:

Route du Sud? Will be touting Dan Martin for the Tour soon?

You think Dd Vlaanderen come close to Flanders? Uh, OK. Let's start with the KM covered in the race and go from there. And don't try and hold the 300K MSR as an example 'cuz it ain't a Northern Classic.

And lemme know where I said that Levi would or even could win the Tour. I'll wait....
 
Seems this theme continues on both threads. I suggest we wait a week to see if Haussler figures.

Anyone fancy Cunego to win the Tour? He's got a GT win in his palmares and has just won two stages and the GC of the Settimana Coppi e Bartali from Cadel Evans.
No? Tends to get treated as a bit of a joke, yet if you compare palmares...
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Seems this theme continues on both threads. I suggest we wait a week to see if Haussler figures.

Anyone fancy Cunego to win the Tour? He's got a GT win in his palmares and has just won two stages and the GC of the Settimana Coppi e Bartali from Cadel Evans.
No? Tends to get treated as a bit of a joke, yet if you compare palmares...


I don't rate Cunego at all....IMO, this single GT win was opportunistic. He had great form and was able to capitalize on Simoni being marked. He has yet to show that kind of potential.

Great hilly classic rider and week-long stage racer. Top 10 is the best he'll ever achieve from now on in a GT. He should focus on his strengths and make the most of them.