U23 races and talents

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The race (being l'Avenir) might be over already:
Andrés Camilo Ardila (UAE)
Santiago Buitrago (Bahrain)
Daniel Arroyave (UAE Colombia)
Rafael Pineda (UAE Colombia)
Jhojan García (Caja Rural)
Juan Fernando Calle (Caja Rural)
Jesús David Peña (Colombia Tierra de Atletas)
Diego Camargo (Colombia Tierra de Atletas)
Well, they can count their blessings that the TTT has been replaced by a climbing ITT.
Arensman is also riding, Van Wilder also, and i would expect Leknessund and Pidcock as well. Any news about Bagioli or Vansevenant?

 
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Well, they can count their blessings that the TTT has been replaced by a climbing ITT.
Arensman is also riding, Van Wilder also, and i would expect Leknessund and Pidcock as well. Any news about Bagioli or Vansevenant?

Vansevenant is out, per an interview in Nieuwsblad ~ a week ago. Mijn debuut maak ik in Milaan-Turijn op 5 augustus, gevolgd door Tour de l’Ain, Giro del Emilia en de Canadese Worldtourkoersen. Ook de Waalse Pijl en Luik-Bastenaken-Luik staat voorlopig op mijn programma, maar dat kan nog wijzigen.”

I can't see Bagio returning for a third time. With Uno now being a pro team, I'm tempted to put an X next to Leknessund as well.
 
Andrés Camilo Ardila (UAE Team Emirates)
Santiago Buitrago (Bahrain McLaren)
Jesús David Peña (Colombia Tierra de Atletas GW)
Diego Camargo (Colombia Tierra de Atletas GW)
Jhojan Orlando García (Caja Rural Seguros)
Juan Fernando Calle (Caja Rural Seguros)

The final 6. Remains to be seen in what shape or form they'll come over, but intrinsically, this is one of the best teams in l'Avenir in recent memory.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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I would have liked to see Rafael Pineda (UAE Colombia doesn't come to Europe anyway)
but it will surely be in 2021. And yes, sur le papier, it's the best climbers team.
 
Because you are a professional at the WT and PCT level, so you have lots more access to resources.
Which will always be the case, even between CT riders. Axeon rode California as a CT team, riders from Switzerland have access to Romandia and Suisse through their national team, most British riders are part of an elite track system. Furthermore, riders from feeder teams can interchange between the pro and U23 team as they like (e.g. Jake Stewart riding Burgos with FDJ, Fisher-Black riding Burgos with Jumbo, and so on). There's no point whatsoever in drawing the line there.
 
An excellent decision - It should only be open for riders who are riding at the Continental or lower.
Riders who get picked up by WT teams get picked up because they are the better riders in their age bracket. So you think the world championships should by definition exclude the better riders. Which complety goes against the idea of a championship in the first place. Then they should call it "best of the rest championships". Or you want to entice the best u23 riders to stay away from WT teams and maybe go against what is best for their development, just so that in all likelyhood less talented riders can become world champion. Then what is even the point. Also, in the proces, draging the overall level down, as if the non-WT u23 wouldn't benefit from an elevated level. All the regular u23 would benefit from that, while alternatively only three regular u23 would benefit with a medal if pro riders are excluded.

I could understand if they brought the age cap for WT riders down to u21 our something. But i think it is a lot more unfair to have an 18 year old fight against riders over 4 years older.

Basically, you are watering down the competition, because by the time a good u23 is elligable to become world champion, he will very likely have been picked up by a big team.

In case he is levels above, he will likely race the pro WCC anyway, like Evenepoel did.
 
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Which will always be the case, even between CT riders. Axeon rode California as a CT team, riders from Switzerland have access to Romandia and Suisse through their national team, most British riders are part of an elite track system. Furthermore, riders from feeder teams can interchange between the pro and U23 team as they like (e.g. Jake Stewart riding Burgos with FDJ, Fisher-Black riding Burgos with Jumbo, and so on). There's no point whatsoever in drawing the line there.
Despite what you write there are still more benefits from being a full time pro at WT or PCT level - You are 100% full time which results in more individualised training programs,diet, better equipment, while also having experience riding a more diverse calendar etc,etc.
 
Riders who get picked up by WT teams get picked up because they are the better riders in their age bracket. So you think the world championships should by definition exclude the better riders. Which complety goes against the idea of a championship in the first place. Then they should call it "best of the rest championships". Or you want to entice the best u23 riders to stay away from WT teams and maybe go against what is best for their development, just so that in all likelyhood less talented riders can become world champion. Then what is even the point. Also, in the proces, draging the overall level down, as if the non-WT u23 wouldn't benefit from an elevated level. All the regular u23 would benefit from that, while alternatively only three regular u23 would benefit with a medal if pro riders are excluded.

I could understand if they brought the age cap for WT riders down to u21 our something. But i think it is a lot more unfair to have an 18 year old fight against riders over 4 years older.

Basically, you are watering down the competition, because by the time a good u23 is elligable to become world champion, he will very likely have been picked up by a big team.

In case he is levels above, he will likely race the pro WCC anyway, like Evenepoel did.
You choose to join a WT or PCT team because it's the best thing for your development at that time. While of course you are paid a salary, can work full time on your skills, diet, preparation etc,etc - Your scenario is comparing chalk and cheese.
 
Despite what you write there are still more benefits from being a full time pro at WT or PCT level - You are 100% full time which results in more individualised training programs,diet, better equipment, while also having experience riding a more diverse calendar etc,etc.
There are also more benefits being part of an elite, non-pro program, than being part of just a non-pro program. Where do you draw the line as to what is or isn't beneficiary enough? It's an U23 race, thus riders younger than 23 should (be able to) participate.
 
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You choose to join a WT or PCT team because it's the best thing for your development at that time. While of course you are paid a salary, can work full time on your skills, diet, preparation etc,etc - Your scenario is comparing chalk and cheese.
It is completely insane to cater a championship towards the lesser riders by excluding the better ones.

U23 is the name of the racing category. One could be 22 and still be ineligible for the WC U23 (being born in oct-dec). We could call it the Non-Pro U23 World Championship. :)
That's fine if they organize a championships for the pro u23s. Or is it more fair that Brenner has to race 250km against van der Poel or Alaphilippe if he wants to participate, than guys nearly 5 years older who are not pro, face Brenner? Which do you think makes more sense?
 
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U23 is the name of the racing category. One could be 22 and still be ineligible for the WC U23 (being born in oct-dec). We could call it the Non-Pro U23 World Championship. :)
They have to draw the line somewhere, and saying that you're too old the year you turn 23 - whether or not you've actually had your birthday yet - seems reasonable to me. If it was by exact age you could have a situation with someone literally turning 23 on the race day; should he be allowed to ride? Though, if I understand correctly; if you ride the elite ITT, you can't ride the U23 RR, you have to make a choice.
Of course the Year you turn 23 rule is not 100% fair; as it stands someone born 1/1 2000 is considered the same age as someone born 31/12 2000, whereas someone born 1/1 2001 is considered to be a full year younger than the guy born just a day before (but I guess the U23 category is when it starts to matter less...)
 
It is completely insane to cater a championship towards the lesser riders by excluding the better ones.


That's fine if they organize a championships for the pro u23s. Or is it more fair that Brenner has to race 250km against van der Poel or Alaphilippe if he wants to participate, than guys nearly 5 years older who are not pro, face Brenner? Which do you think makes more sense?
Exactly this. There is one WC for the best riders in the word. Every restriction that is put on another World Championship (age/u19/u23, non-pro, left-handed, no moustache) is somehow unfair.
 
So... i just went through the "junior" topic, and for some reason nobody seems to have talked about Olav Kooij. He's listed a few times in results, but not much more than that. It's not the type of rider i'm typically interested in, but he seems to be pretty decent, to put it mildly. He's U23 now (still needs to turn 19 this year) for TJV development squad, but the last 2 years he's racked up a nice set of wins. He's a sprinter, but i don't know much more either. Anybody here have any more info?
Olav Kooij seems to be turning out to be quite a good first year u23. First race back in the second part of the season and he's hit the ground running with a win at the GP Kranj. Will be interesting to see how he goes with the world tour Jumbo Visma at the Czech Tour.

Jumbo Visma seem to really be making good use of the ability to have feeder team riders complete races with the pro team. Fisher Black and Leemreize at Burgos and then Geleijn, Ryan, Kooij and Hessmann all in Czech Tour.
 
Aleotti won 2 races solo this weekend, since races have restarted he has entered 3 races, 2 wins and a 2nd place. The field wasn't stellar, but really solid, Conca and Colleoni, 2 of the best Italians of the last u23 Giro who are turning pro with Androni next year and the NTT ct team for example.
 
Aleotti won 2 races solo this weekend, since races have restarted he has entered 3 races, 2 wins and a 2nd place. The field wasn't stellar, but really solid, Conca and Colleoni, 2 of the best Italians of the last u23 Giro who are turning pro with Androni next year and the NTT ct team for example.
His win on Saturday was very impressive, he dominated. He looks to be in good form going into l'Avenir and I'm intrigued what he can bring this year. With this years course I'm tempted to say he won't repeat last years feat, but he's a weird rider. Often when you expect him on his terrain he's nowhere to be found, and when you expect him to crumble in the high mountains he does so well limiting damage. With the downfall of CCC I'm wondering where he'll end up as well, in the right environment, say DQS, he could become an elite rider. Friuli is quitely becoming an elite program, with Jonathan Milan's emergence as well, and I haven't given up on Fabbro either.
 

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