UAE Tour 2023, February 20-26 (women's race February 9-12)

[RedheadDane]

Reported for baiting.

You're the one who apparently wants a one-day ban.
It's good for you to acknowledge that your forum-addiction is so bad you need to be literally unable to log in.

 

[tobydawq]

normally they have very precise data. The photo finish from Croatia last year for example included the time gaps , according to which one rider finished 0.0004s ahead of the other:

So I don't think it's decided based on that photo, but on more information.

I clocked that with my stopwatch.

 

[Volderke]

I clocked that with my stopwatch.

There a whole explanation about photo finish that came out after Amstel with WvA and Pidcock.
In essence, what you see is not 1 picture, but a series of pictures. Each picture is a vertical line of pixels, taken at a time interval of around 0.0002 or 0.0004 seconds, depending on the frame rate of the high-speed camera.

So you get your pictures every 0.0002 seconds of one line of pixels, and with that, it's possible to visualize the time gap to that degree of separation.

The issue is that this line of pixels can be taken wherever in between the 2 white lines, and the black in between can be some centimeters thick. So any very close photofinish can be in favour of one rider if the camera is placed at the beginning of the black line, while it would be in favour of another rider when placed at the end. It's always a bit of an uncertainty, and thereby it's not possible to see those very close finishes with the normal camera, as the frame rate is not high enough, and as human brain can maybe interpolate who crossed the line first, but that line is some centimeters wide and who knows where exactly they put the camera.

 

[Lequack]

So anyway, Remco has this win in the bag.

 

[tobydawq]

There a whole explanation about photo finish that came out after Amstel with WvA and Pidcock.
In essence, what you see is not 1 picture, but a series of pictures. Each picture is a vertical line of pixels, taken at a time interval of around 0.0002 or 0.0004 seconds, depending on the frame rate of the high-speed camera.

So you get your pictures every 0.0002 seconds of one line of pixels, and with that, it's possible to visualize the time gap to that degree of separation.

The issue is that this line of pixels can be taken wherever in between the 2 white lines, and the black in between can be some centimeters thick. So any very close photofinish can be in favour of one rider if the camera is placed at the beginning of the black line, while it would be in favour of another rider when placed at the end. It's always a bit of an uncertainty, and thereby it's not possible to see those very close finishes with the normal camera, as the frame rate is not high enough, and as human brain can maybe interpolate who crossed the line first, but that line is some centimeters wide and who knows where exactly they put the camera.

I know, I also think that was explained after the Kittel-Boasson Hagen decision in 2017 (which I think was closer than the Kittel-Coquard 2016 one, even though that is much more referred to).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

normally they have very precise data. The photo finish from Croatia last year for example included the time gaps , according to which one rider finished 0.0004s ahead of the other:

So I don't think it's decided based on that photo, but on more information.

In case of doubt, they should give it to whomever gets his ass over the line first.

 

[RedheadDane]

In case of doubt, they should give it to whomever gets his ass over the line first.

That would give riders like Ewan and Cavendish an advantage, as their asses are just closer to their heads - and front wheels - than most other sprinters.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The issue is that this line of pixels can be taken wherever in between the 2 white lines, and the black in between can be some centimeters thick. So any very close photofinish can be in favour of one rider if the camera is placed at the beginning of the black line, while it would be in favour of another rider when placed at the end. It's always a bit of an uncertainty, and thereby it's not possible to see those very close finishes with the normal camera, as the frame rate is not high enough, and as human brain can maybe interpolate who crossed the line first, but that line is some centimeters wide and who knows where exactly they put the camera.

They could easily solve that problem, by having the white line in the middle, and two extra white lines outlining the black lines.

Basically:

pavement
10cm white line
30cm black line
5cm white line -------> actual line, on which they can calibrate the camera
30cm black line
10cm white line
pavement

Alternatively, they can obligate riders to ride with white tires, lol. Or have a laser lined up with the camera, and the tire that crosses the line first will light up first.

 

[KZD]

some of that may be the bike particularly in terms of TT.

it might be scary to have Pog on a specialized or pinarello.

I think the bike has certainly some influence. Just from memory I remember four cases in which riders seem to be worse at UAE than at other teams.

As mentioned in this chain Almeida used to be among the best GC riders at Quick Step even beating Foss in the last TT of Giro 2021 or Remco in the first of that same Giro and now he is just average at least among GC riders.

Bjerg and McNulty were also among the best TTers in the U23 scene (Bjerg arguably the best) and they are now average at UAE and its not like they have become gradually worse instead they have never achieved the kind of results one would expect as a pro.

And then there is Ganna that turned pro with UAE and didn't shine there but since he changed to Ineos his results improved dramatically to the point of becoming World Champion twice.

I don't think its all due to the set-up, training might also have some influence but its clear to me that UAE is not a great place to be if one is a top TTer or wants to improve it.

As for the race itself, Remco is now in the pole position to win this race but he needs to be careful with the wind in the next stages and Bilbao and Plapp are still looming threats.

 

[Lequack]

 

[Oldermanish]

So anyway, Remco has this win in the bag.

A TTT in crosswinds could be the definitive stage. Stronger teams get bigger gaps. As always: no one has it in the bag until the last stage.

 

[Volderke]

They could easily solve that problem, by having the white line in the middle, and two extra white lines outlining the black lines.

Basically:

pavement
10cm white line
30cm black line
5cm white line -------> actual line, on which they can calibrate the camera
30cm black line
10cm white line
pavement

Alternatively, they can obligate riders to ride with white tires, lol. Or have a laser lined up with the camera, and the tire that crosses the line first will light up first.

Not sure if I understand well, but I would agree if you say that the current contrast id too low, and they should have a clearer background to enhance contrast.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

That would give riders like Ewan and Cavendish an advantage, as their asses are just closer to their heads - and front wheels - than most other sprinters.

The big guys would simply have to bend over backwards instead of throwing their bikes.

 

[BR2]

In my opinion it's silly to give the win to one rider because of a pixel or a 0,00001 second in a race with an "open" start, after many hours, when there's a line painted on the road for them. If one can't see it on a finish photo either give it to both of them or, which I would prefer, have a tie-breaker - if it's a stage in the UAE Tour I honestly don't care, but in important races one doesn't want an outcome like today. I'd welcome a rule change.

 

[Oldermanish]

In my opinion it's silly to give the win to one rider because of a pixel or a 0,00001 second in a race with an "open" start, after many hours, when there's a line painted on the road for them. If one can't see it on a finish photo either give it to both of them or, which I would prefer, have a tie-breaker - if it's a stage in the UAE Tour I honestly don't care, but in important races one doesn't want an outcome like today. I'd welcome a rule change.

Except no one likes tied races. Unless both winners are given equal $$$ for the effort, then maybe.

 

[tobydawq]

In my opinion it's silly to give the win to one rider because of a pixel or a 0,00001 second in a race with an "open" start, after many hours, when there's a line painted on the road for them. If one can't see it on a finish photo either give it to both of them or, which I would prefer, have a tie-breaker - if it's a stage in the UAE Tour I honestly don't care, but in important races one doesn't want an outcome like today. I'd welcome a rule change.

Do you have an idea for a tie-breaker?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Do you have an idea for a tie-breaker?

Well the current tie-breaker is apparently a 1 km sprint battle.

 

[BR2]

Do you have an idea for a tie-breaker?

Well, Logic already suggested one.
No, actually I don't, would have to think about it.

 

[Volderke]

Well the current tie-breaker is apparently a 1 km sprint battle.

Yes,

the UCI rules state that in case of a tie, the 2 tied riders have to do a 1 on 1 race of 1000 meters with a standing start. I really wonder why they didn't take the initiative to organize this. It would have been such a great and unique event.

 

[tobydawq]

A TTT tomorrow. We haven't had too many of those, lately. It must be only the second in a WT race after the Covid break.

I think Ineos will take it.

 

[tobydawq]

Yes,

the UCI rules state that in case of a tie, the 2 tied riders have to do a 1 on 1 race of 1000 meters with a standing start. I really wonder why they didn't take the initiative to organize this. It would have been such a great and unique event.

Wow, I had no idea of that rule.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yes,

the UCI rules state that in case of a tie, the 2 tied riders have to do a 1 on 1 race of 1000 meters with a standing start. I really wonder why they didn't take the initiative to organize this. It would have been such a great and unique event.

I guess they probably want to avoid it at all costs, but I wouldn't have minded it either. Especially not in a smaller race like this, where a win isn't that prestigious.

 

[tobydawq]

I guess they probably want to avoid it at all costs, but I wouldn't have minded it either. Especially not in a smaller race like this, where a win isn't that prestigious.

It could also be that they know that Merlier crossed the line first.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes,

the UCI rules state that in case of a tie, the 2 tied riders have to do a 1 on 1 race of 1000 meters with a standing start. I really wonder why they didn't take the initiative to organize this. It would have been such a great and unique event.

Probably a good thing that's most likely to happen between sprinters. Because could you imagine a tie-break battle between, say, Pozzovivo and Landa?
"Guys, you can start sprinting now."
"We have started sprinting!"

 

[Samu Cuenca]

It could also be that they know that Merlier crossed the line first.

Yeah, so they'll rather do their best to find a winner instead of having to use a tie-breaker. I'm not claiming they gave the win to Merlier just to get it over with.