UCI putting their foot in it

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joe_papp said:
I'm not sure what we're going to disagree about since I was simply commenting on how ambitious it is to cut out 140 words and string two phrases together to come up with what would then appear to be a quote by the president of the UCI in which he seems to say that the biopass isn't evidence of doping.
Ok, then how about if we agree to agree?

Dave.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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joe_papp said:
Wow, you cut out nearly 140 words from the text of McQuaid's letter in order to string those two phrases together and completely misrepresent the text. WTF?

"Once again I understand the discontent of the riders and their entourage about the leak, which I also consider as completely unacceptable, but I frankly find it difficult to share their surprise and indignation at the content of the document where it is also taking into account the data of the blood passport. Team managers – you will be well aware of the programme to which you have largely contributed the financing. Riders – you are the only individuals able to access, at any time, all the analysis results of your profile, as recorded in your biological passport.

I have introduced these issues into the discussion because I am increasingly convinced that the basis for the success of an innovative programme such as the biological passport is the individual responsibility of each rider and the collective responsibility of each team.

So riders and teams must not be indignant at the blood passport being used to the maximum of its possibilities, bearing in mind that at the stage of the priority list the passport data are no evidence of whatever (which is the reason why the document is confidential).


Our objective has never been to create lists of suspects, but rather to provide ourselves with the most effective tool possible to optimise our resources - which are not unlimited - as well as to ensure the effectiveness of our approach. The battle against doping has, for a long time, been a priority for the UCI, even to the extent that it could sometimes be considered to be over emphasised in our sport. Yet it must be admitted that the reality of the situation does not allow us to act otherwise..."


That's the most ambitious bit of selective-editing I think I've ever seen.

Dave's gotten a trifle unhinged in the pursuit of justice. Ends/means
 
May 13, 2009
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Merckx index said:
This is very poor English on McQuaid’s part. I can only guess he means “no evidence of any doping whatsoever”. But beyond the fact that this interpretation is inconsistent with his earlier statement that the list is based to some extent on blood values, why, if it is no evidence of doping, does this necessitate confidentiality? If it were evidence of doping, it wouldn’t need to be confidential?

Let me try re-writing this for you, Pat:
He is the president of an international corporation based in Switzerland. We should not expect English to be his first language. I assume the original French is clearer.
 
lacticacid said:
He is the president of an international corporation based in Switzerland. We should not expect English to be his first language. I assume the original French is clearer.
I assume you are joking. He is native Irish. Now maybe the original statement was in French, though if McQuaid wrote it, as he implied he did, it would almost certainly not be. But McQuaid, or someone in UCI, should have taken some responsibility for the English translation, which they had to know would probably be read by more people than the original French, being clear. We're not talking about minor problems that occur when one language is translated into another. We're talking about a major difficulty in understanding the underlying meaning.
 
MacRoadie said:
lacticacid said:
He is the president of an international corporation based in Switzerland. We should not expect English to be his first language. I assume the original French is clearer.
lacticacid, you may not be aware that Pat is Irish. Since the late nineteenth century (i.e. 1800s), English has been Ireland's primary language.

But, if that were not enough of a persuasive argument, consider this from McQuaid himself:

"There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures, the Anglo-Saxon culture and what I might call the mafia Western European culture," McQuaid said.
...
"And it is important, I feel, it is very important that at the end of the day the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out - because if it doesn't, then the sport is doomed."


Arguably, Pat's foot-in-the-mouth disease may leave everyone guessing as to any linguistic capability whatsoever.

Dave.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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i can believe that the uci 'letter of apology' or at least its first draft was written by the irishman himself.

it's a strange compilation of faked sincerity, attempted directness and excessive verbosity.

i found practically nothing of value in it except some mumbling as to the criteria that went into the rider ranking... something i painfully tried to figure out from the beginning...
 
Jul 28, 2010
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lacticacid said:
He is the president of an international corporation based in Switzerland. We should not expect English to be his first language. I assume the original French is clearer.
Haha. I laughed. I took this as a droll piece of humour. But I am easily amused. I think the facepalm thing is funny too.
 
Jul 28, 2010
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python said:
i can believe that the uci 'letter of apology' or at least its first draft was written by the irishman himself.

it's a strange compilation of faked sincerity, attempted directness and excessive verbosity.

i found practically nothing of value in it except some mumbling as to the criteria that went into the rider ranking... something i painfully tried to figure out from the beginning...
Sounds like the UCI. He writes something in English, then they google translate it into French, google translate back into English, and release it to the public. Makes about as much sense as he usually does. :D
 
Dec 18, 2009
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Compensation

Mcquaid has placated the riders on the list with a free 'pass' at their next dope test.
 
lacticacid said:
He is the president of an international corporation based in Switzerland. We should not expect English to be his first language. I assume the original French is clearer.
Corporation?

They're hardly Microsoft! Although it wouldn't surprise me if their legal budget is the same.

For the record they're not a corporation. Purely non-profit organisation.

However you're not far wrong on the language. Indeed you're right. French and English are the two official languages of the UCI charter. All documents are translated into both languages - - often you'll see the UCI stated as ICU. I suspect Pat wrote a few notes in English then then the Swiss lawyers wrote the letter in French then it was translated into English.
 
thehog said:
Corporation?

They're hardly Microsoft! Although it wouldn't surprise me if their legal budget is the same.

For the record they're not a corporation. Purely non-profit organisation.

However you're not far wrong on the language. Indeed you're right. French and English are the two official languages of the UCI charter. All documents are translated into both languages - often you'll see the UCI stated as ICU. I suspect Pat wrote a few notes in English then then the Swiss lawyers wrote the letter in French then it was translated into English.
Exactly my point.
 
poupou said:
You don't even need to question the raison d'etre the Passport any more - though it is still appreciated.

Three strikes:
1. Almost no cases brought forward. Minimally, the UCI could have used it to 'prove' their 1% dope but couldn't even manage that.
2. The WADA IO report which underscored how the information is not being used
3. McQuaid's reaction to the printed list

Stick a fork in it. It's done.

Dave.
 
D-Queued said:
You don't even need to question the raison d'etre the Passport any more - though it is still appreciated.

Three strikes:
1. Almost no cases brought forward. Minimally, the UCI could have used it to 'prove' their 1% dope but couldn't even manage that.
2. The WADA IO report which underscored how the information is not being used
3. McQuaid's reaction to the printed list

Stick a fork in it. It's done.

Dave.
The madness continues:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8491/Doping-Pat-McQuaid-calls-for-ban-on-former-dopers-managing-teams.aspx

I assume he's including Radioshack in all of this?

International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid has called for the banning of former professional riders who have been convicted of doping offences in their careers from becoming team managers. In an interview with the BBC, McQuaid said that he wanted to end the cycle of doping in the sport, and feels that this measure will help with that.

"I'm not happy there are team managers who have been doping as athletes themselves," he told BBC Sport. "I'm not happy they understand the responsibility they have to the sport."
 
May 26, 2010
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thehog said:
The madness continues:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8491/Doping-Pat-McQuaid-calls-for-ban-on-former-dopers-managing-teams.aspx

I assume he's including Radioshack in all of this?

International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid has called for the banning of former professional riders who have been convicted of doping offences in their careers from becoming team managers. In an interview with the BBC, McQuaid said that he wanted to end the cycle of doping in the sport, and feels that this measure will help with that.

"I'm not happy there are team managers who have been doping as athletes themselves," he told BBC Sport. "I'm not happy they understand the responsibility they have to the sport."
how does he square his own breaking of the IOC rules governing competing in South africa and now running a international sporting federation.

the guy is a clown
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
how does he square his own breaking of the IOC rules governing competing in South africa and now running a international sporting federation.

the guy is a clown
C'mon dude! He was young and naive and just eager to race and prove to himself how good he really was.

Unfortunately, the only race he could find was 6,000 miles from home in a country which had been banned from international competition as a result of a socio-political system that enforced racial inequality. That he had to fly OVER the entire continent of Europe where the best cyclists in the world were actually competing to get there is simply evidence of his naivete and misguided youthful exuberance.

Give the guy a break.
 
thehog said:
The madness continues:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8491/Doping-Pat-McQuaid-calls-for-ban-on-former-dopers-managing-teams.aspx

I assume he's including Radioshack in all of this?

International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid has called for the banning of former professional riders who have been convicted of doping offences in their careers from becoming team managers. In an interview with the BBC, McQuaid said that he wanted to end the cycle of doping in the sport, and feels that this measure will help with that.

"I'm not happy there are team managers who have been doping as athletes themselves," he told BBC Sport. "I'm not happy they understand the responsibility they have to the sport."
Madness or comedy?

I trust that Mr. 60% will be given a pass since he only admitted he doped while winning the sport's biggest prize, and was never convicted. Not like that creates any sort of model for others to aspire to.

But, given the ongoing pattern of favoritism, I won't be surprised if somehow pressure is put on Frankie even though he admitted but was never convicted.

In other words, if you win the Tour while doping you are ok.

But, if you were a loyal domestic who spoke honestly when asked about a notorious doping teammate, you will never be given the secret handshake.

Dave.
 
D-Queued said:
Madness or comedy?

I trust that Mr. 60% will be given a pass since he only admitted he doped while winning the sport's biggest prize, and was never convicted. Not like that creates any sort of model for others to aspire to.

But, given the ongoing pattern of favoritism, I won't be surprised if somehow pressure is put on Frankie even though he admitted but was never convicted.

In other words, if you win the Tour while doping you are ok.

But, if you were a loyal domestic who spoke honestly when asked about a notorious doping teammate, you will never be given the secret handshake.

Dave.
Sounds like he's heading off the storm thats brewing in the US.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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thehog said:
The madness continues:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8491/Doping-Pat-McQuaid-calls-for-ban-on-former-dopers-managing-teams.aspx

I assume he's including Radioshack in all of this?

International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid has called for the banning of former professional riders who have been convicted of doping offences in their careers from becoming team managers. In an interview with the BBC, McQuaid said that he wanted to end the cycle of doping in the sport, and feels that this measure will help with that.

"I'm not happy there are team managers who have been doping as athletes themselves," he told BBC Sport. "I'm not happy they understand the responsibility they have to the sport."
So, Pat says he is going to invoke a rule barring those who test positive from working as Managers of teams - and then added:
"....We do suffer, and all sports suffer, from the fact that athletes tend to become officials afterwards, its a constant circle going on and its very hard to break that circle".
If he wants to break this circle then why did the UCI nominate Stephen Roche and Eric Zabel for the UCI's Professional Cycling Council?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
So, Pat says he is going to invoke a rule barring those who test positive from working as Managers of teams - and then added:


If he wants to break this circle then why did the UCI nominate Stephen Roche and Eric Zabel for the UCI's Professional Cycling Council?
I call this "Majorette Management" where someone changes their apparent posture by running in front of an iniative with absolutely no contribution. Add to this that Pat says that the banning would not be "retrospective"...retrospective means they would consider the past. Retroactive means they might actually do something about it. Pat can't even get to the symantics to consider they would act. Much ado about absolutely nothing except that WADA is in the mix.
 
Oldman said:
I call this "Majorette Management" where someone changes their apparent posture by running in front of an iniative with absolutely no contribution. Add to this that Pat says that the banning would not be "retrospective"...retrospective means they would consider the past. Retroactive means they might actually do something about it. Pat can't even get to the symantics to consider they would act. Much ado about absolutely nothing except that WADA is in the mix.
Good pick-up.

A restrospective related to doping would be putting together a highlight reel of finest doping moments. Wanna see Pat twirl a baton on his way to South Africa? How about a look at Riis at 40, 50 and 60% HCT?

If McQuaid is committed to not providing that, we will miss some good entertainment.

Fortunately, the war on doping will still be there to worry about tomorrow.

Dave.
 
Oldman said:
I call this "Majorette Management" where someone changes their apparent posture by running in front of an iniative with absolutely no contribution. Add to this that Pat says that the banning would not be "retrospective"...retrospective means they would consider the past. Retroactive means they might actually do something about it. Pat can't even get to the symantics to consider they would act. Much ado about absolutely nothing except that WADA is in the mix.
As if by magic? http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8495/UCI-clarifies-proposal-to-ban-dopers-from-team-management.aspx

Those Swiss lawyers weren't on the ball with this one.
 

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