Ullrich attacks Armstrong!!!

[vrusimov]

I don't think Ullrich was naturally the uber-talented rider for grand tours many people think he was. He gets way too much credit for what PED's did to alter his talents, making a rider he's never be without them. Just like Armstrong.

I believe, like many riders of his generation, Ullrich was a rider who exhibited a skillset that was more a byproduct of drugs than natural talent. Without EPO, blood transfusions and/or whatever else he doing, he would not have been a top-notch climber, and Arcalis never happens.

I do believe at worst Jan would have been a great classics, one-day and maybe week-long stage rider, just like Armstrong. But that's it.

As for Jan "attacking" Armstrong, that is just sensationalist media hype. If you read the interview, all he did was state a sobering account of Armstrong's deleterious effect on cycling. His opinions on the Armstrong situation to me seems succinct, to-the-point, and true. No attack there that I can see.

No personal attack but Mr. Ullrich has a little problem with the damage HE HIMSELF has done to cycling. His failure to acknowledge his own sins put him worse than Armstrong. Self denial is his refuge I guess, just like when he was competing. Still the same Jan. The fact that he blames the Armstrong revelations for cycling in Germany is ridiculous when viewed from the country's own little contributions to damage in cycling.

 

[Ebbe Nyberg]

Is he attacking Armstrong or the investigation into Armstrong?

 

[Fatclimber]

Jan isn't a bad person. I'd heard about Alpecin being a potential sponsor. Always wondered what came of that. Hair loss brand right?

And Johan isn't the devil.

 

[Bavarianrider]

"The good Lord judges all"

The most important sentence of that interview. It tells you what Ullrich really thinks about Armstrong!

 

[melkemugg]

Dopers dissing other dopers.

At least i think Jan felt more obligated to dope compared to Armstrong's sociopathic behavior and more of a enjoyment of doping and cheating, but i was hoping for a more humble approach from the old german.

 

[Bavarianrider]

He did what he had to do to compete is what he says but he could have well won the tour in 96 had it not been for Riis. Vayer's Not Normal describes Ullrich [allegedly] as having been addicted to EPO early in his career:

He finishes 2nd in the 1996 Tour de France behind his leader Bjarne Riis, and is characterized by Jef D’Hont, team trainer from 1992 to 1996, as “addicted to EPO“. But it’s really the whole team that runs on EPO as Riis, Zabel, Aldag, Dietz and Henn admit in 2007.

Where did you get that from?
In fact D'Hont said that Ullrich was always very careful with Epo and not a front runner at all.

 

[IndianCyclist]

And even this one...off the bike...has no sticking power. Hypocritical pontification while he continues to tiptoe around his own addictions to EPO and PED's. Say what you will about Armstrong...the man came clean and made his admission, whether it was genuine or not, which is more than you can say for Ullrich...sad really and he has zero credibility. He can't even admit his own responsibility for what he terms damage to cycling. Some nerve I tell you and not unlike Bugno's statement awhile back. Everything wrong with the European peloton is American in nature. Wow!

While not being as famous as LA, his own doping affair with Fuentes did not have the same far reaching consequences but it almost caused the demise of German cycling

 

[Race Radio]

Agreed. Ulrich's only complaint here is that Armstrong got caught. Strange that he is lionized by the same people who hate Lance.

Where is this lionization? I see a lot of people calling him on his nonsense.

Jan and Pevenage did great damage to the sport. They were the key reason it is has been dead in Germany for almost a decade.

 

[thehog]

Jan and Pevenage did great damage to the sport. They were the key reason it is has been dead in Germany for almost a decade.

Good grief!

You don’t think the East German sport system did some damage all on its own?

Where women became men and men became suicidal.

And the UCI did enough with assistance of Ullrich and Armstrong to dismantle cycling in Germany.

And Hein. He kinda helped a lot with his Dutch ways.

T-Mobile/Telekom were fully aware of the doping program. Along with the state sponsored university research center.

 

[Race Radio]

Good grief!

You don’t think the East German sport system did some damage all on its own?

Where women became men and men became suicidal.

And the UCI did enough with assistance of Ullrich and Armstrong to dismantle cycling in Germany.

And Hein. He kinda helped a lot with his Dutch ways.

T-Mobile/Telekom were fully aware of the doping program. Along with the state sponsored university research center.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Jan and Rudy damaging the sport in Germany.

 

[thehog]

Not sure what any of this has to do with Jan and Rudy damaging the sport in Germany.

You might need to spend more time revising your history then

Perhaps even drop the personal beef with Ullrich?

If you've got a problem with him. Go speak with him. Rather than attempting to apportion blame solely at his doorstep.

The ills of German cycling came long before Jan clipped into his pedals.

 

[horsinabout]

Don't know if this helps, but Ullrich really did attack Armstrong. And those sprinters legs look straight from the East German sprint program. Illustrating a point that not only different era's different doping, but different Nations different doping? With different body types along with it.

http://youtu.be/l39ahBFGnuk

Armstrong didn't get brought down by doping, but because of his personality and dysfunctional UCI system that supported him. Now perhaps this is what Ullrich mean? Although I haven't read the article.

 

[Ebbe Nyberg]

Where is this lionization? I see a lot of people calling him on his nonsense.

Many people, including in this thread, mitigate Jan whilst attacking Lance. There is a long pattern of this. And even if they do criticise him now, they weren't doing so at the time. Some do have a double standard.

Jan and Pevenage did great damage to the sport. They were the key reason it is has been dead in Germany for almost a decade.

A big company like T Mobile share some of the blame for funding the team and their doping program. Do you agree?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Not sure what any of this has to do with Jan and Rudy damaging the sport in Germany.

To be fair, was there cycling before Jan und Bjarne in Germany?

Ullrich being Ullrich in that interview. Still a likeable fellow.

 

[Race Radio]

You might need to spend more time revising your history then

Perhaps even drop the personal beef with Ullrich?

If you've got a problem with him. Go speak with him. Rather than attempting to apportion blame solely at his doorstep.

The ills of German cycling came long before Jan clipped into his pedals.

Oh, I do not blame Jan solely. The media went overboard when they saw he and Rudy were lying to them.

I don't have a personal beef with him. Nice guy. I just think it is silly in the interview he points the finger at lance for damaging to the sport in Germany and ignoring his contribution to it's demise.

 

[kingjr]

I don't have a personal beef with him. Nice guy. I just think it is silly in the interview he points the finger at lance for damaging to the sport in Germany and ignoring his contribution to it's demise.

The thing is, he always needed someone to tell him what's silly and what's not. He doesn't really have a feeling for it himself.

And of course, "SportBild" is more of a gossip magazine, so probably a lot of what he said comes across differently from how he meant it.

 

[Ebbe Nyberg]

Oh, I do not blame Jan solely. The media went overboard when they saw he and Rudy were lying to them.

I don't have a personal beef with him. Nice guy. I just think it is silly in the interview he points the finger at lance for damaging to the sport in Germany and ignoring his contribution to it's demise.

You can answer my question too if you'd like. What responsibility do you believe Ullrich's financial backers, i.e, T Mobile, played in what is commonly known as the darkest era of the sport? Is it credible that they didn't know the team had a huge doping program?

 

[thehog]

Oh, I do not blame Jan solely. The media went overboard when they saw he and Rudy were lying to them.

I don't have a personal beef with him. Nice guy. I just think it is silly in the interview he points the finger at lance for damaging to the sport in Germany and ignoring his contribution to it's demise.

Phew!

For a minute there I thought you were saying that a guy who could barely tie his own showlaces masterminded the destruction of German cycling

Bit like saying Gazza destroyed English football!

 

[manafana]

hardly attacked him just made a comment on him being ruthless.

 

[Coolair2970]

Does Jan break Omerta? Nope.
Does Jan come clean? Nope.
Does Jan name any of his providers? Nope.
Does Jan lay out how he beat the system before Fuentes? Nope.
Does Jan go into details about his team's program? Nope.

Jan + " I made mistakes" + "Lance hurt cycling" = Hero

In all seriousness, I like Jan a lot, but this praise when he has done absolutely nothing in the fight against doping, to the point of maintaining Omerta is a bit ridiculous. He hasn't bucked the system like Floyd or Tyler. I have seen no record of him testifying against Fuentes or anyone else. So what gives? Ah, hatred of the uniballer.

What was it actually Floyd and Tyler said except wich other riders used doping and that he used Fuentes wich we already knew.

You never heard from any of them where the doping at US Postal came from and who supplied it. You never heard from where they had access to Hemapure and other experimental drugs.

I understand that most people in "The Clinic" dislike a person like Fuentes, but we all have to understand that doping wasn't illegal in Spain at the time. The only reason Furntes was sentenced to 1 year suspended at the trial was political.

They hoped to get him to testify but he didn't and then he got a sentence that didn't hurt anybody.

Don't get me wrong. I don't like dopers but I don't like dopers to be heros for doing nothing but earn money and get revenge.

 

[Boeing]

I get the play with words in the title here.

But I must say I did not get that out of any of his statements not even poor translation.

 

[ElChingon]

Well had this forum been in existence back in 1998 when Ulrich was hit with the Bonk-anical and Pantani dropped him like a rock and won le Tour that year on that rainy cold mountain top, we'd still be laughing at that and he'd of been labeled in some way for that event. Well he is still in some circles, just not this one.

He snuck out the back when he retired so that said it all to me, surprised he actually sticks his head out these days, maybe he needs to sneak out the back again.

 

[martinvickers]

Ullrich = Indurain.

No more, no less. Humbler than Armstrong, kinda nice guy, treated the peleton respectfully. Cheat and Omerta protector. His interview is pure Omerta...I'll take my punishment and keep my mouth shut for 'the guys'. Noble on the peleton level; anything but on the level of the whole sport and where it needs to go.

Simples.

 

[thehog]

Ullrich = Indurain.

No more, no less. Humbler than Armstrong, kinda nice guy, treated the peleton respectfully. Cheat and Omerta protector. His interview is pure Omerta...I'll take my punishment and keep my mouth shut for 'the guys'. Noble on the peleton level; anything but on the level of the whole sport and where it needs to go.

Simples.

For the last time.

Peloton.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You never heard from any of them where the doping at US Postal came from and who supplied it. .

Ding! Ding! Ding! The silence is deafening on this point. I believe Ullrich is as silent on Armstrong on the matter. Hamilton? Landis?

I understand that most people in "The Clinic" dislike a person like Fuentes, but we all have to understand that doping wasn't illegal in Spain at the time. The only reason Furntes was sentenced to 1 year suspended at the trial was political.

They hoped to get him to testify but he didn't and then he got a sentence that didn't hurt anybody.

Chances are good there's a national doping program going on in Spain and Fuentes was the hub. Based on his statements, he could have done a Floyd Landis only with a REALLY big sports like football and tennis tainting many people.