Ullrich confessed

[thehog]

Yup. Early 2010. Terrible weather. He was still 3 kgs or so overweight. Yet he and Caleb Fairly smashed the field.

He also killed it at Leadville with a month of training. That was after getting totally out of shape while sitting in hearings.

Correct. One of procyclings biggest losses. Landis was crazy enough to try anything. Phenomenal rider.

After he was pushed from the sport we were left with worthless characters like Cadel.

 

[Ferminal]

Well, Floyd claims he doped for the first time after the 2002 Dauphine. So he's obviously a real talent unless he's still lying about his doping.

Maybe, he didn't really climb better than Moncoutie

 

[Neworld]

glad you finally figured that out. lol. i never talk about "natural" talent or "natural" progression. it's a freakin' joke to somehow justify who you like and who you don't...

Most here would probably agree with your curse optics on recent riders, but maybe you should read about Floyd's past a bit or even email him. He may be the only rider to have been in the USePo *** Bus, left to win a tour, lose everything and then disemboweled himself for all to see. Email him and ask for some numbers, he will respond.

Back to Jan...expecting more, and left with a hand full of sand. He should call Tyler.

 

[Big Doopie]

Most here would probably agree with your curse optics on recent riders, but maybe you should read about Floyd's past a bit or even email him. He may be the only rider to have been in the USePo *** Bus, left to win a tour, lose everything and then disemboweled himself for all to see. Email him and ask for some numbers, he will respond.

fair enough. it was a bad example. my apologies to everyone and landis for using him in an erroneous analogy.

i exaggerated with the intention of making a point.

the worst thing that blood vector doping has done to cycling is obscure the real hierarchy for the fan.

it drives me freakin' nuts when people here blab on and on about so and so being naturally talented and would have won anyway, or that doping didn't completely alter the hierarchy. to me that is actually giving riders like valverde and contador and armstrong justification for doping. it's like saying they deserve all their ill-gotten wins because they would have won anyway.

we don't know.

and when you say things like that it is basically a vote for omerta and doping.

and i don't get that if you are a true fan of cycling.

 

[Neworld]

fair enough. it was a bad example. my apologies to everyone and landis for using him in an erroneous analogy.

i exaggerated with the intention of making a point.

the worst thing that blood vector doping has done to cycling is obscure the real hierarchy for the fan.

it drives me freakin' nuts when people here blab on and on about so and so being naturally talented and would have won anyway, or that doping didn't completely alter the hierarchy. to me that is actually giving riders like valverde and contador and armstrong justification for doping. it's like saying they deserve all their ill-gotten wins because they would have won anyway.

we don't know.

and when you say things like that it is basically a vote for omerta and doping.

and i don't get that if you are a true fan of cycling.

Agreed. In that context...the last 30+ yrs have been experimental pseudosports at the expense of clean ethical riders.

 

[hfer07]

He doesn't actually confess until tomorrow.

What you've read thus far is a teaser.

Bis morgan.

well... the full version is out & yet it wasn't that revealing either, as we expected. Jan IMO just wanted to claim publicly his endeavor with Fuentes-as simply and plain as possible, without harming/compromising/ratting anyone from back then, well knowing is already out in the public.

What I find appealing is the way he implies that no matter how much dope was allowed back then- mr LA had always had the upper hand because of his protection from UCI- which refutes the so called "level field" so misused by many, since Ulle & Co. had yet to "prevent a positive at all costs" whereas LA could simply "make it go away"-therefore less dope was used by them in comparison to the US postal crew....

 

[Hugh Januss]

He doesn't actually confess until tomorrow.

What you've read thus far is a teaser.

Bis morgan.

That would be "bis morgen" auf Deutsch, unless it's a Tuesday.

 

[Race Radio]

But only just by chance, no? Had they ridden for USPS in 2004, they would've been on the bus with Floyd when the entire team received the transfusion on the side of the road.

It begs the question though: How many other teams provided a "full service" to all the riders?
(Group discount?)

No. Vandevelde was left of the Tour team because he was not part of the transfusion program

One thing Jan could answer for us would be if Riis really did transfusions in 1996. Jef d'Hont was pretty detailed about Riis' doping that year. Talked about how he took twice as much EPO and HGH as everyone else and his Hct was 64%....but he never mentioned transfusions. Why would he take a bucketload of EPO if he could do a transfusion?

I think his claim was more of a way to break down any resistance Tyler might have to a rather distasteful process

 

[Bavarianrider]

There's one big question which is hardly ever discussed.
Apparently 9 blood bags of Ullrich were discovered in the Operation Puerto thing, at least that is what we are told.
That was in May of 2006. So one might think that Ullrich would have been in huge trouble heading into the Tour in 2006, missing those 9 blood bags.
However, apparantly this wasn't the case at all. Ullrich looked very strong in the Tour de Suisse and looked super strong and confident heading to the Tour.
How is this possible if he was dependent on those blood bags?
9 blood bags is really a lot. So i don't think it's really plausible that Ullrich had many other blood bags in spare in other places.

 

[arjanh]

One thing Jan could answer for us would be if Riis really did transfusions in 1996. Jef d'Hont was pretty detailed about Riis' doping that year. Talked about how he took twice as much EPO and HGH as everyone else and his Hct was 64%....but he never mentioned transfusions. Why would he take a bucketload of EPO if he could do a transfusion?

Well, didn't they rediscover transfusions after tests for EPO become available? That was, what, 2001? And handling EPO probably is easier than handling BBs, and likely also easier to admninister.

 

[webvan]

It looks like you need to read Hamilton's book! Riis was quite clear he was transfusing in 1996 because it was better than EPO, a "Fountain of Youth"!

 

[Race Radio]

It looks like you need to read Hamilton's book! Riis was quite clear he was transfusing in 1996 because it was better than EPO, a "Fountain of Youth"!

I read Hamilton's book. I also have read a lot about the Telekom doping program and talked to many of the people involved. The program has been investigated by the government and very well detailed in the press. Riis' program we well covered as well. There is zero mention of transfusions in 96. None. Not in the Freiburg report, not by any team or staff member.

Increasingly it appears that Riis invented this story and used it to ease any of Hamilton's concerns about a very distasteful process.

 

[hrotha]

I tend to agree with RR. Although since Hamilton had already done transfusions maybe it wasn't so much about soothing Hamilton as about Riis wanting to look cool and edgy.

Transfusions have some advantages over EPO, but they're a lot more inconvenient.

 

[Mr.38%]

Increasingly it appears that Riis invented this story and used it to ease any of Hamilton's concerns about a very distasteful process.

That's an interesting thought but honestly, I think Riis didn't talk about it because the process appears distateful to outsiders (e.g. buyers of his own book).

It looks like you need to read Hamilton's book! Riis was quite clear he was transfusing in 1996 because it was better than EPO, a "Fountain of Youth"!

It's not "better", in fact it's worse for several reasons. It was undetectable and gave you a boost on top of the boost, that's about it.

 

[Race Radio]

That's an interesting thought but honestly, I think Riis didn't talk about it because the process appears distateful to outsiders (e.g. buyers of his own book).


It's not "better", in fact it's worse for several reasons. It was undetectable and gave you a boost on top of the boost, that's about it.

I can understand why Riis did not mention it in his book, but the trouble is none of the other members of the team had heard anything about it. They knew he took huge amounts of EPO that year at the Tour, amounts that he would not need if he transfused, but nobody had heard anything about transfusions.

 

[Bavarianrider]

While the haters hat, Ulle just chills, deal with it!

 

[Gregga]

I can understand why Riis did not mention it in his book, but the trouble is none of the other members of the team had heard anything about it. They knew he took huge amounts of EPO that year at the Tour, amounts that he would not need if he transfused, but nobody had heard anything about transfusions.

It's easy to understand Riis didn't ever mention the transfusions because it was an advantage on his opponents (Festina) he didn't want to confess.

But I believe in that 3 transfusions story because it's consistent with the big improvements Riis had at least twice during the 1996 TdF :
- he was good in the rainy prologue but average in les Arcs and Tigne
- and then 'kaboom' crushed everyone on Sestrières (attacking from the beginning, just as if he knew he had new ammunitions to spend)
- again he's average until Hautacam and then re-'kaboom'
- he fades in the last ITT, losing 2'18 (!!!) on Ullrich, more than half on his advantage at the start

This fading is the same Armstrong had in 2000 after his famous pre-Ventoux transfusion : great on Izoard, average on Courchevel, weak on Joux-Plane

I think Riis really had 2 transfusions in 1996, just before Sestrières and Hautacam. He was really a donkey without blood doiping, what a fraud.

 

[Bavarianrider]

It's easy to understand Riis didn't ever mention the transfusions because it was an advantage on his opponents (Festina) he didn't want to confess.

But I believe in that 3 transfusions story because it's consistent with the big improvements Riis had at least twice during the 1996 TdF :
- he was good in the rainy prologue but average in les Arcs and Tigne
- and then 'kaboom' crushed everyone on Sestrières (attacking from the beginning, just as if he knew he had new ammunitions to spend)
- again he's average until Hautacam and then re-'kaboom'
- he fades in the last ITT, losing 2'18 (!!!) on Ullrich, more than half on his advantage at the start

This fading is the same Armstrong had in 2000 after his famous pre-Ventoux transfusion : great on Izoard, average on Courchevel, weak on Joux-Plane

I think Riis really had 2 transfusions in 1996, just before Sestrières and Hautacam. He was really a donkey without blood doiping, what a fraud.

D'Hont told the story Riis.He mentioned how he good in serious health troulbe in the last days of the Tour as a negative side effect of his ridcilously hight blood values.

 

[SundayRider]

I read Hamilton's book. I also have read a lot about the Telekom doping program and talked to many of the people involved. The program has been investigated by the government and very well detailed in the press. Riis' program we well covered as well. There is zero mention of transfusions in 96. None. Not in the Freiburg report, not by any team or staff member.

Increasingly it appears that Riis invented this story and used it to ease any of Hamilton's concerns about a very distasteful process.

Why would he be so specific about when he used transfusions, if it was only to re-assure TH?

 

[blackcat]

Why would he be so specific about when he used transfusions, if it was only to re-assure TH?

because he won the Tour that year. It lends credibility to the medical program, if associated with a July win.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It is funny though, that poor Vino had to ride, ride, buy and buy till he was friggin 46 to get his Olympic gold and the only thing he had to do was wait for a few years and let justice been done...

Bartoli, Olano and the brave Jaja will get their well deserved clean medals.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

There's one big question which is hardly ever discussed.
Apparently 9 blood bags of Ullrich were discovered in the Operation Puerto thing, at least that is what we are told.
That was in May of 2006. So one might think that Ullrich would have been in huge trouble heading into the Tour in 2006, missing those 9 blood bags.
However, apparantly this wasn't the case at all. Ullrich looked very strong in the Tour de Suisse and looked super strong and confident heading to the Tour.
How is this possible if he was dependent on those blood bags?
9 blood bags is really a lot. So i don't think it's really plausible that Ullrich had many other blood bags in spare in other places.

Dim, the go-to-guy for Fuentes programs, said Jan's program was 100% geared towards the TdF, with no net-transfusions before that.

 

[filipo]

Frankie never transfused. Either did VDV, or Dave Z. The list of riders who took EPO is long, very long. Transfusions? Not so much.

Says who? Do you *still* think they left Postal and only to go clean with Liberty Seguros and/or CSC, the veritable poster-children for blood-bag Fuentes?

 

[SundayRider]

because he won the Tour that year. It lends credibility to the medical program, if associated with a July win.

Yeah I suppose, I still think Riis used BBs.

 

[thehog]

Says who? Do you *still* think they left Postal and only to go clean with Liberty Seguros and/or CSC, the veritable poster-children for blood-bag Fuentes?

I know. RR is 'avin a laugh if he thinks CVDV went clean turkey on the bags at LS and CSC.