I grew up with one of the UFC's former heavyweight champions. I've been following it for 20 years now and probably have as much hands on experience as any amateur should being that we adopted it as a replacement to the traditional Judo that was taught in the Army. I have to say that if injuries in sport alone as being a reason to ban a sport then we'd have just as strong a case to ban cycling. Ban it? NO! Don't like it then don't watch it. Simple.
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It's an interesting issue on many levels.
No doubt about this. These guys are in amazing shape. Strength, speed, endurance, agility, flexibility--they have it all. I remember seeing footage of Jens Pulver and Urijah Faber training before one of their matches. Few professional athletes can do what these guys do. From a purely athletic and conditioning standpoint, I have to admire it.
From a martial arts combative standpoint, MMA and UCF laid waste to many long-held myths regarding different styles of fighting and finally lifted the veil behind which many of these "schools" had hidden for decades. When put to the test, many highly-touted approaches were quickly revealed to be ineffective in a real-world setting. I think this was very important considering how many people around the world would spend years of their lives and often large sums of money in the belief that they were learning to defend themselves when in reality, they were merely pantomiming lost skills from a bygone era.
I fully realize that not everyone who studies martial arts does so for the combative aspects of it. But for those that do, it is extremely dangerous and flat-out irresponsible to be teaching techniques that won't work when it really counts. I studied a lot of Chinese and Filipino martial arts when I was younger and the skills, conditioning and flexibility I learned have benefited me throughout my life. But the evolution of Mixed Martial Arts has helped to redefine how everyone from law enforcement, to military personnel, to the average person approaches self-defense. This is important to those who feel the need, or are required, to develop these skills.
All that being said, should it be banned? Well, in some states in the U.S. it already is. I don't follow it enough to keep track but my understanding is that some states have reversed the ban so I don't know what the situation is presently. In my parts, most of the New England states had banned it at one point but they could still hold matches at the Connecticut casinos because those are under the jurisdiction of the Indian tribal lands where the casinos are located. They have Sovereign status and therefore aren't bound by all the same laws as the state.
Various politicians and state's attorney generals were appalled by the violent nature of the activity and sought to ban it where they could.
I don't really agree with some of the sentiments here that banning an activity is somehow beyond the reach of what our governing bodies should be allowed to do. Let's face it, live gladiator fights-to-the-death, with lions and tigers thrown in, would definitely find an audience--but we do not allow it. There are limits to our "civilized" society. Many people find bullfighting abhorrent, and it is being banned in many areas now (I certainly understand the significant difference here that the bull doesn't have much of deciding vote in the matter to begin with).
Personally, I find the violent nature of UFC, MMA to be more than what I care for, but they are amazing athletes. I find the fighting that goes on in hockey equally distasteful but the blood lust of the fans is obvious in the cheers that any fight generates. At least with MMA we know what we’re in for.
As we (hopefully) evolve as compassionate beings, is violent, hand-to-hand combat something that we need for entertainment? I would like to think that it isn’t. And I would extend that to all sports that involve outright violence. I’m not unhappy that it’s banned in my state but I fully appreciate and respect the athletic prowess behind it. As I said previously, as someone with a martial arts background, I am thankful for the enlightenment that has come from the movement. I’ve never witnessed a professional fight in person and I can only imagine that the barbaric nature of the entire atmosphere would be amplified ten-fold to watching it on television. But if the participants are willing—and they most certainly are—then there will always be an audience for it.
[Edit]
I voted "no" to banning it worldwide primarily because I feel that is a very slippery slope to go down and that it would set a bad precedent for even our "own sport" of cycling. I could easily imagine plenty of people voting to ban cycling and keep us all off the roads if given the chance.
Not true. That's all I'll say.pleyser said:
pedaling squares said:
No doubt about this. These guys are in amazing shape. Strength, speed, endurance, agility, flexibility--they have it all. I remember seeing footage of Jens Pulver and Urijah Faber training before one of their matches. Few professional athletes can do what these guys do. From a purely athletic and conditioning standpoint, I have to admire it.
From a martial arts combative standpoint, MMA and UCF laid waste to many long-held myths regarding different styles of fighting and finally lifted the veil behind which many of these "schools" had hidden for decades. When put to the test, many highly-touted approaches were quickly revealed to be ineffective in a real-world setting. I think this was very important considering how many people around the world would spend years of their lives and often large sums of money in the belief that they were learning to defend themselves when in reality, they were merely pantomiming lost skills from a bygone era.
I fully realize that not everyone who studies martial arts does so for the combative aspects of it. But for those that do, it is extremely dangerous and flat-out irresponsible to be teaching techniques that won't work when it really counts. I studied a lot of Chinese and Filipino martial arts when I was younger and the skills, conditioning and flexibility I learned have benefited me throughout my life. But the evolution of Mixed Martial Arts has helped to redefine how everyone from law enforcement, to military personnel, to the average person approaches self-defense. This is important to those who feel the need, or are required, to develop these skills.
All that being said, should it be banned? Well, in some states in the U.S. it already is. I don't follow it enough to keep track but my understanding is that some states have reversed the ban so I don't know what the situation is presently. In my parts, most of the New England states had banned it at one point but they could still hold matches at the Connecticut casinos because those are under the jurisdiction of the Indian tribal lands where the casinos are located. They have Sovereign status and therefore aren't bound by all the same laws as the state.
Various politicians and state's attorney generals were appalled by the violent nature of the activity and sought to ban it where they could.
I don't really agree with some of the sentiments here that banning an activity is somehow beyond the reach of what our governing bodies should be allowed to do. Let's face it, live gladiator fights-to-the-death, with lions and tigers thrown in, would definitely find an audience--but we do not allow it. There are limits to our "civilized" society. Many people find bullfighting abhorrent, and it is being banned in many areas now (I certainly understand the significant difference here that the bull doesn't have much of deciding vote in the matter to begin with).
Personally, I find the violent nature of UFC, MMA to be more than what I care for, but they are amazing athletes. I find the fighting that goes on in hockey equally distasteful but the blood lust of the fans is obvious in the cheers that any fight generates. At least with MMA we know what we’re in for.
As we (hopefully) evolve as compassionate beings, is violent, hand-to-hand combat something that we need for entertainment? I would like to think that it isn’t. And I would extend that to all sports that involve outright violence. I’m not unhappy that it’s banned in my state but I fully appreciate and respect the athletic prowess behind it. As I said previously, as someone with a martial arts background, I am thankful for the enlightenment that has come from the movement. I’ve never witnessed a professional fight in person and I can only imagine that the barbaric nature of the entire atmosphere would be amplified ten-fold to watching it on television. But if the participants are willing—and they most certainly are—then there will always be an audience for it.
[Edit]
I voted "no" to banning it worldwide primarily because I feel that is a very slippery slope to go down and that it would set a bad precedent for even our "own sport" of cycling. I could easily imagine plenty of people voting to ban cycling and keep us all off the roads if given the chance.
ACF94, not all UFC fighters wish to "bash the crap out of each other", Demian Maia is respected throughout the MMA world as someone with one of the best 'ground' games in the sport, he would rather submit an opponent than to "bash the crap" out of him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia
Cheers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia
Cheers
No way should this ever be banned...This is my second favourite sport and has one of my all time Idols BJ Penn...This guy has class and rather than bash the crap out of his apponents he makes most submit..His lifestyle and general perseption of life and what he makes of it,should be looked up too by all.His nickname is the Prodigy"
Granville57 said:It's an interesting issue on many levels.
Not true. That's all I'll say.
No doubt about this. These guys are in amazing shape. Strength, endurance, agility, flexibility--they have it all. I remember seeing footage of Jens Pulver and Urijah Faber training before one of their matches. Few professional athletes can do what these guys do. From a purely athletic and conditioning standpoint, I have to admire it.
From a martial arts combative standpoint, MMA and UCF laid waste to many long-held myths regarding different styles of fighting and finally lifted the veil behind which many of these "schools" had hidden for decades. When put to the test, many highly-touted approaches were quickly revealed to be ineffective in a real-world setting. I think this was very important considering how many people around the world would spend years of their lives and often larges sums of money in the belief that they were learning to defend themselves when in reality, they were merely pantomiming lost skills from a bygone era.
I fully realize that not everyone who studies martial arts does so for the combative aspects of it. But for those that do, it is extremely dangerous and flat-out irresponsible to be teaching techniques that won't work when it really counts. I studied a lot of Chinese and Filipino martial arts when I was younger and the skills, conditioning and flexibility I learned have benefited me throughout my life. But the evolution of Mixed Martial Arts has helped to redefine how everyone from law enforcement, to military personnel, to the average person approaches self-defense. This is important to those who feel the need, or are required, to develop these skills.
All that being said, should it be banned? Well, in some states in the U.S. it already is. I don't follow it enough to keep track but my understanding is that some states have reversed the ban so I don't know what the situation is presently. In my parts, most of the New England states had banned it at one point but they could still hold matches at the Connecticut casinos because those are under the jurisdiction of the Indian tribal lands where the casinos are located. They have Sovereign status and therefore aren't bound by all the same laws as the state.
Various politicians and state's attorney generals were appalled by the violent nature of the activity and sought to ban it where they could.
I don't really agree with some of the sentiments here that banning an activity is somehow beyond the reach of what our governing bodies should be allowed to do. Let's face it, live gladiator fights to the death, with lions and tigers thrown in, would definitely find an audience--but we do not allow it. There are limits to our "civilized" society. Many people find bullfighting abhorrent, and it is being banned in many areas now (I certainly understand the significant difference here that the bull doesn't have much of deciding vote in the matter to begin with).
Personally, I find the violent nature of UFC, MMA to be more than what I care for, but they are amazing athletes. I find the fighting the goes on in hockey equally distasteful but the blood lust of the fans is obvious in the cheers that any fight generates. At least with MMA we know what we’re in for.
As we (hopefully) evolve as compassionate beings, is violent, hand-to-hand combat something that we need for entertainment? I would like to think that it isn’t. And I would extend that to all sports that involve outright violence. I’m not unhappy that it’s banned in my state but I fully appreciate and respect the athletic prowess behind it. As I said previously, as someone with a martial arts background, I am thankful for the enlightenment that has come from the movement. I’ve never witnessed a professional fight in person and I can only imagine that the barbaric nature of the entire atmosphere would be amplified ten-fold to watching it on television. But if the participants are willing—and they most certainly are—then there will always be an audience for it.
[Edit]
I voted "no" to banning it worldwide primarily because I feel that is a very slippery slope to go down and that it would set a bad precedent for even our "own sport" of cycling. I could easily imagine plenty of people voting to ban cycling and keep us all of the roads if given the chance.
François, please stop sock-puppeting or I will report you.
btw, couldn't believe that some states banned this, and that they are even able to ban this. On what basis ? Kids ?
There are worse "sports" I would ban, e.g. horse-sports.
Aucune une telle chose se passe ici. Je vous promets.Cobblestoned said:François, please stop sock-puppeting or I will report you.
btw, couldn't believe that some states banned this, and that they are even able to ban this. On what basis ? Kids ?
Niet zoiets gebeurt hier. Dat beloof ik.
I have to head out right now but I'll get back to you with some interesting details regarding the bans a bit later.
-Granville57
Perhaps off topic a bit, but martial arts are one of the best things you could ever introduce your children to.
My son trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for three years, beginning at age six. He hated every minute of it. (yes, I made him) Getting choked and having limbs bent is rough but it instilled a bit of 'toughness' in him. He needed it. He is still the sweet kid that he was before he started training but the difference is that he is the sweet kid who is not afraid to take a bigger kid to the ground and own him, if that's what the other kid insists upon. Kind of fun seeing his bigger, older friends under estimate him. It's humbling for them and just a bit of friendly fun for my son. All good in the end.
My son trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for three years, beginning at age six. He hated every minute of it. (yes, I made him) Getting choked and having limbs bent is rough but it instilled a bit of 'toughness' in him. He needed it. He is still the sweet kid that he was before he started training but the difference is that he is the sweet kid who is not afraid to take a bigger kid to the ground and own him, if that's what the other kid insists upon. Kind of fun seeing his bigger, older friends under estimate him. It's humbling for them and just a bit of friendly fun for my son. All good in the end.
The Future of UFC...
Jon 'Bones' Jones is seen as the future of the UFC, supreme athlete who could have excelled in a variety of sports.
Jon 'Bones' Jones is seen as the future of the UFC, supreme athlete who could have excelled in a variety of sports.
Re: Horse-sports.Cobblestoned said:François, please stop sock-puppeting or I will report you.
btw, couldn't believe that some states banned this, and that they are even able to ban this. On what basis ? Kids ?
There are worse "sports" I would ban, e.g. horse-sports.
Therein lies the danger of banning sports. Every sport probably offends someone for some reason. Slippery slope.
Re: The basis for banning.
Again, there are a few angles to this. When the UFC first hit the U.S in the early 1990's it was more reckless than what we see today. It definitely had the look and feel of some sort of death match from a dark martial arts film. There were no weight classes and the idea was to pit the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu experts from the famed Gracie Family up against all comers, all styles.
At the time, most people could never imagine a lightning-fast master of choke-holds completely overwhelming some mean looking dude twice his size. Surprise!
It was rough and bloody, for sure. So it wasn't too shocking when people like Senator John McCain freaked out a bit, because the whole thing just oozed raw violence. It seemed only a matter of time before someone was killed in front of a Pay-Per-View audience (not to mention the live audience as well). As a result, thirty-six states actually banned the events! That number has been greatly reduced since though. (After a few google searches, I'm surprised by how difficult it is to ascertain the current correct stats on this. I just don't care enough to explore the specifics right now.)
But as most things that involve entertainment and money, back-room politics have been at play. One of the forces pushing to ban MMA style events is the World Wrestling Federation led by Vince McMahon (clearly a threat to their market share). McMahon has even backed lobbying efforts to enforce bans in European countries, including Germany.
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/2/19/2002677/wwe-accused-of-lobbying-to-keep-ufc-banned-in-connecticut
Consider this: McMahon's wife, Linda, just recently ran for (but fortunately lost) a Connecticut senate seat. In the process she spent nearly $50 million dollars of her own money! Imagine how much she probably has left to "influence" various interests. More frighteningly, imagine how much power and influence she may have wielded had she won the election.
Not to stray too far into politics here. I'm just trying to make the point that the "reasons" something like MMA or UFC may or may not be banned in certain locations may not always be as obvious as they appear on the surface.
Re: Sock puppetry
Moi?
C'est tout simplement ridicule.
Why would you want to ban someone from going to a local gym, training and learning whatever discipline they desire. The professional sport will exist regardless of what governments do to ban it, all you are doing is hurting grass roots people who just want to train and may never actually fight.
To me there seems to be a bit of an overreaction from people who haven't really seen or understood the sport. I haven't been following the Octagon for long, but I don't see what's worse about it than Filipinos destroying Mexicans in a ring.
To me there seems to be a bit of an overreaction from people who haven't really seen or understood the sport. I haven't been following the Octagon for long, but I don't see what's worse about it than Filipinos destroying Mexicans in a ring.
Of course it´s sport.
When one considers some of the first sports in recorded history (hurling, wrestling, shuai jiao (Chinese wrestling)) and the origin of the Olympics, you can trace a pretty clear lineage from those early combat sports to the sport of MMA and any other combat sport for that matter.
And it isn´t barbaric. It´s the opposite I would say. A controlled, safe, environment for the combatants to pit their particular discipline against another.
I´d actually find it ironic if we started banning sports like MMA considering where the roots of sport lies.
And NO, the fighter can NOT pound away at the undefended head of an unconscious opponent...as someone attempted to say earlier up thread.
When one considers some of the first sports in recorded history (hurling, wrestling, shuai jiao (Chinese wrestling)) and the origin of the Olympics, you can trace a pretty clear lineage from those early combat sports to the sport of MMA and any other combat sport for that matter.
And it isn´t barbaric. It´s the opposite I would say. A controlled, safe, environment for the combatants to pit their particular discipline against another.
I´d actually find it ironic if we started banning sports like MMA considering where the roots of sport lies.
And NO, the fighter can NOT pound away at the undefended head of an unconscious opponent...as someone attempted to say earlier up thread.
call it whatever you like, it is still baching the crap out of each other. Submitting an opponent or having a good ground game are just euphenisms for bashing the crap out of someone. I still standby view on this issue.Spider1964 said:ACF94, not all UFC fighters wish to "bash the crap out of each other", Demian Maia is respected throughout the MMA world as someone with one of the best 'ground' games in the sport, he would rather submit an opponent than to "bash the crap" out of him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia
Cheers
Ferminal said:
Did I say that?
Ferminal said:
No I want it all banned but you don't have to do the actual fighting aspect of MMA to train like one of the fighters. I respect how fit they are but don't respect nor agree with the concept of the 'sport'.
auscyclefan94 said:
Its simple ACF...you don't like it..don't watch it! To ban it would be totally ridiculous. Funny, I came up with a father who was a really big boxing fan. He was never violent or aggressive in any way, but he always told me that if two guys wanna get in the ring and fight...I'll watch. I feel the same way. I never have done a pay per view...but watch it sometimes on versus. Those guys are really fit! Faber is an animal! I don't do it, nor would I want my child to fight MMA...but I sure as heck can admire the time and effort they put into their craft! Check out some George St. Pierre...wow!
having both trained and competed in martial arts (including boxing, kickboxing/muay thai and fillipino stick fighting) for many years, the number of times some complete muppet spouts this line gets so very tiresome. Shows complete and utter ignorance at what is really going on...
but sure, let's ban all combative sports and drive it all underground so that it becomes like the gypsy fights down the train yards with no professional refs, medics or rules. what a brilliant idea that makes...
any books you feel like burning lately?
Archibald said:
Kinda like Philo Beddoe in Every Which Way But Loose??? LOL I'm just kidding with you, I completely agree!
grew up with martial arts and continue to do workouts to this day to help strengthen my riding skills and fitness. Banning combative sport like MMA is ridiculous. It's as pure a sport as any combative sport when you consider the amount of knowledge you need in several disciplines to compete. It still is evolving as well. I'm not sure what OP wants out of this post on cycling site, though. you need to walk the walk on an MMA site, op.
TRDean said:
all cool.
i've seen footage of gypsy fights here in the UK. it's actually funny as f*ck - two wallys in their trackie pants circling each other before trying to windmill on each other. all inside a circle of dodgy-as-f*ck rubberneckers trying to look tough. very lame, but i've heard of them being far worse than this one that I saw...
Thank you for your input. Interesting, and with funny end.Granville57 said:Re: Horse-sports.
Therein lies the danger of banning sports. Every sport probably offends someone for some reason. Slippery slope.
Re: The basis for banning.
Again, there are a few angles to this. When the UFC first hit the U.S in the early 1990's it was more reckless than what we see today. It definitely had the look and feel of some sort of death match from a dark martial arts film. There were no weight classes and the idea was to pit the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu experts from the famed Gracie Family up against all comers, all styles.
At the time, most people could never imagine a lightning-fast master of choke-holds completely overwhelming some mean looking dude twice his size. Surprise!
It was rough and bloody, for sure. So it wasn't too shocking when people like Senator John McCain freaked out a bit, because the whole thing just oozed raw violence. It seemed only a matter of time before someone was killed in front of a Pay-Per-View audience (not to mention the live audience as well). As a result, thirty-six states actually banned the events! That number has been greatly reduced since though. (After a few google searches, I'm surprised by how difficult it is to ascertain the current correct stats on this. I just don't care enough to explore the specifics right now.)
But as most things that involve entertainment and money, back-room politics have been at play. One of the forces pushing to ban MMA style events is the World Wrestling Federation led by Vince McMahon (clearly a threat to their market share). McMahon has even backed lobbying efforts to enforce bans in European countries, including Germany.
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/2/19/2002677/wwe-accused-of-lobbying-to-keep-ufc-banned-in-connecticut
Consider this: McMahon's wife, Linda, just recently ran for (but fortunately lost) a Connecticut senate seat. In the process she spent nearly $50 million dollars of her own money! Imagine how much she probably has left to "influence" various interests. More frighteningly, imagine how much power and influence she may have wielded had she won the election.
Not to stray too far into politics here. I'm just trying to make the point that the "reasons" something like MMA or UFC may or may not be banned in certain locations may not always be as obvious as they appear on the surface.
Re: Sock puppetry
Moi?
C'est tout simplement ridicule.
With horsesports, I was talking more from the "athletes" view.
We can choose - horses not.
I live next to this http://www.chioaachen.de/ , and I hate it because many frightening storys came out and keep coming out.
Horses doped (to death) or tortured with iron rods. This is just some snob-entertainment.
I can imagine some horses like to play polo, but I can't say this about other horsesports in any kind.
Absolutely love the sport ... yes it's a sport .
I like the technical and sometimes not so technical nature of it .... i.e. a brilliant technician is on equal footing sometimes with an outright brawler.
Levels the playing field over a wide variety of disciplines.
Admire and feel inspired regarding the fitness aspect of guys like BJ Penn and GSP.
Ban it - no way ... it is regulated to a point and thats all that matters. Ive seen worse on a Saturday on an Aussie rules footy field. These guys know what they are getting into and train long and hard for it.
Mutual respect after a bout is evedent even after a loss.
Thursday nights on the Plasma on OneHD ... "bring it on !"
I like the technical and sometimes not so technical nature of it .... i.e. a brilliant technician is on equal footing sometimes with an outright brawler.
Levels the playing field over a wide variety of disciplines.
Admire and feel inspired regarding the fitness aspect of guys like BJ Penn and GSP.
Ban it - no way ... it is regulated to a point and thats all that matters. Ive seen worse on a Saturday on an Aussie rules footy field. These guys know what they are getting into and train long and hard for it.
Mutual respect after a bout is evedent even after a loss.
Thursday nights on the Plasma on OneHD ... "bring it on !"
Cobblestoned said:
if the death rate of horses was in any other human sport it would have been stopped years ago
The aim of AFL is to kick goals and get the highest score. UFC is to bash the crap out of someone even till they are "punch drunk". In the past 10-15 years I have never seen anything of what you see in the UFC on the footy field.Barracuda said:
Not really a fan, but have seen parts of a few events online. Don't think it should be banned. If you ban this, where do you stop? Boxing should certainly be banned as well. Probably any real hits and all fighting in hockey as well. Many of the hits in the NFL and rugby and lacross as well. The constant jarring of having your brain rattled from boxing is just as bad, if not worse than what these guys do.
I will also say the sport seems a lot more civil and controlled than it was several years ago when there were no gloves, no rounds, etc. with some guys that looked like they stepped in from a bar. That was nutso.
I will also say the sport seems a lot more civil and controlled than it was several years ago when there were no gloves, no rounds, etc. with some guys that looked like they stepped in from a bar. That was nutso.
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