United Kingdom | 6 TDF Wins in 10 Years?

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Saint Unix said:
I have no doubt Bernal will never win the Tour while riding for Team Sky.
It's unknown, though bernal not winning the tour is more likely him finally doing it at this point whatever team he'll be riding for. otoh, bernal might not have looked so magnificent, if he hadn't performed for sky.
 
Re: Re:

dacooley said:
Saint Unix said:
I have no doubt Bernal will never win the Tour while riding for Team Sky.
It's unknown, though bernal not winning the tour is more likely him finally doing it at this point whatever team he'll be riding for. otoh, bernal might not have looked so magnificent, if he hadn't performed for sky.
This is a good point and kind of takes us back full circle. Winning the Tour is really, really hard. Even for a rider as obviously talented as Bernal - there is absolutely no guarantee he will ever win it. Maybe once every ten years there will be a weak edition, but generally you have to be the best GT rider in the world and on top form, and still avoid bad luck in order to win the Tour.

Yet Sky have quite literally manufactured three British winners in less than a decade - riders who showed nowhere near the GC potential that Bernal has, until sudden transformations in their mid-late 20s. Even with doping, that is some achievement. To think they could have done it clean though, is absolutely preposterous.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
dacooley said:
Saint Unix said:
I have no doubt Bernal will never win the Tour while riding for Team Sky.
It's unknown, though bernal not winning the tour is more likely him finally doing it at this point whatever team he'll be riding for. otoh, bernal might not have looked so magnificent, if he hadn't performed for sky.
This is a good point and kind of takes us back full circle. Winning the Tour is really, really hard. Even for a rider as obviously talented as Bernal - there is absolutely no guarantee he will ever win it. Maybe once every ten years there will be a weak edition, but generally you have to be the best GT rider in the world and on top form, and still avoid bad luck in order to win the Tour.

Yet Sky have quite literally manufactured three British winners in less than a decade - riders who showed nowhere near the GC potential that Bernal has, until sudden transformations in their mid-late 20s. Even with doping, that is some achievement. To think they could have done it clean though, is absolutely preposterous.
Yes, i concure, though to me thinking that one cracks top 10 in any GT completely clean is mental. what I'm sincerely puzzled about is that most clinic regular posters don't know how a level playing field cycling would look like but one thing they are 100% certain about - there wouldn't be a space for donkeys like froome and thomas on top. :)
 
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Escarabajo said:
hrotha said:
Berzin was a very talented track cyclist who excelled in pursuit. Furlan always had class. Colombo was young so a breakthrough was to be expected. Same with Bobrik. If you doubt Argentin's class you know nothing about cycling. Ugrumov had already been up there in GTs before joining the team. Riis actually got worse this year after moving to this team.
Are posting in the right thread?
Yup.
 
Re: Re:

dacooley said:
So you are absolutely OK about Sky letting Bernal win?) Thats a bit borderline slanderous.
I don't think Bernal winning was Ineos' intention. He's been second-in-command to Thomas this whole Tour, but happens to find himself in the lead due to a combination of being by far the strongest rider (after Pinot's injury and abandon) and a bit of dumb luck.

Thomas was meant to bridge across to his attack on Izoard. Bernal would never even have gone if not for Thomas giving the order. Bernal stayed away because he was so strong and Thomas didn't have the legs to bridge across as intented. Pinot was also injured or I'm sure he would have followed.

Yesterday Bernal gained huge amounts of time because the stage was cut short. There's no knowing how it would have ended, but I'm certain the other favourites would have pulled quite a bit of time back on Bernal if they'd ridden the stage as planned. Possibly enough to put Thomas in yellow.

There's no way of knowing for sure, but to me their tactics looked like they've been riding for Thomas to win again right from the start, while Bernal has been the Froome to Thomas' Wiggins, so to speak.
 
Unlikely because Bernal was allowed to ride away, Froome wasnt.

It's a British company paying the bills, so it would be a little odd if they didnt prefer a British winner if possible. However they arent going to risk no winner just to get a British winner.
 
I think so.

Thomas was the defending champion, but really any talk of him as leader was just pragmatic lip service. Even Thomas didnt outright declare himself as leader and knew he had to earn that right during the race. All things considered, Ineos has managed the situation well and it due credit has to be given to Thomas's humility. I cant see that many contenders being so polite and chilled about it all.
 
buckle said:
As Landis has stated Sky/Ineos is a protected team. A random French guy is what DB really wanted as cover but a dumb Latino is just as useful. There is no point to likening this and Wimbledon to WWE unless one accepts that Vince McMahon is a marketing genius and even an anarchist in a never miss Mass on Sunday sort of way.
A ‘dumb latino’ :mad:

True colours showing there, classy
 
buckle said:
As Landis has stated Sky/Ineos is a protected team. A random French guy is what DB really wanted as cover but a dumb Latino is just as useful. There is no point to likening this and Wimbledon to WWE unless one accepts that Vince McMahon is a marketing genius and even an anarchist in a never miss Mass on Sunday sort of way.
Dumb latino? You're a vile human being who won't achieve even 1% of what Egan will.
 
Re: Re:

Saint Unix said:
dacooley said:
So you are absolutely OK about Sky letting Bernal win?) Thats a bit borderline slanderous.
I don't think Bernal winning was Ineos' intention. He's been second-in-command to Thomas this whole Tour, but happens to find himself in the lead due to a combination of being by far the strongest rider (after Pinot's injury and abandon) and a bit of dumb luck.

Thomas was meant to bridge across to his attack on Izoard. Bernal would never even have gone if not for Thomas giving the order. Bernal stayed away because he was so strong and Thomas didn't have the legs to bridge across as intented. Pinot was also injured or I'm sure he would have followed.

Yesterday Bernal gained huge amounts of time because the stage was cut short. There's no knowing how it would have ended, but I'm certain the other favourites would have pulled quite a bit of time back on Bernal if they'd ridden the stage as planned. Possibly enough to put Thomas in yellow.

There's no way of knowing for sure, but to me their tactics looked like they've been riding for Thomas to win again right from the start, while Bernal has been the Froome to Thomas' Wiggins, so to speak.
There's also the pretty unexpected Alaphilippe situation. If he wasn't so strong, Thomas would have been firmly in yellow after the TT. That's the main difference with 2012 I think: Wiggins was in yellow, Thomas wasn't.

Or Thomas and Bernal might simply be more amicable humans than Froome and Wiggo.
 
buckle said:
As Landis has stated Sky/Ineos is a protected team. A random French guy is what DB really wanted as cover but a dumb Latino is just as useful. There is no point to likening this and Wimbledon to WWE unless one accepts that Vince McMahon is a marketing genius and even an anarchist in a never miss Mass on Sunday sort of way.
disgraceful comment.. :mad:
 
1. Thomas gave no order. He was to weak. His first attack was easily shut down by Mühlberger and countered by Kruijswijk who even gapped him slightly. Hence why Bernal moved clear as he was the strongest climber left in the race. Thomas was perfectly fine with it though being cautious and realistic. He's no Froome or Wiggins. I obviously have to revoke my earlier statement.

2. Bernal isn't even Latino, but a true Maya / Indigo like Quintana isn't he!?
 
May 27, 2016
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Hayabusa said:
buckle said:
As Landis has stated Sky/Ineos is a protected team. A random French guy is what DB really wanted as cover but a dumb Latino is just as useful. There is no point to likening this and Wimbledon to WWE unless one accepts that Vince McMahon is a marketing genius and even an anarchist in a never miss Mass on Sunday sort of way.
Dumb latino? You're a vile human being who won't achieve even 1% of what Egan will.
I'm guessing you missed the nuance and context. Sigh.


What an amazing thread this has been.

What an odd, odd race
 
Apr 6, 2015
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Re:

staubsauger said:
1. Thomas gave no order. He was to weak. His first attack was easily shut down by Mühlberger and countered by Kruijswijk who even gapped him slightly. Hence why Bernal moved clear as he was the strongest climber left in the race. Thomas was perfectly fine with it though being cautious and realistic. He's no Froome or Wiggins. I obviously have to revoke my earlier statement.

2. Bernal isn't even Latino, but a true Maya / Indigo like Quintana isn't he!?
The Mayas are in southern Mexico and Central America. The indigenous people of what is now Colombia were part of other cultures, the most prominent of which were the Chibcha people. Quintana and Bernal are from a region where people have mostly Chibcha ancestry.
 
AustCyclingFan said:
Hayabusa said:
buckle said:
As Landis has stated Sky/Ineos is a protected team. A random French guy is what DB really wanted as cover but a dumb Latino is just as useful. There is no point to likening this and Wimbledon to WWE unless one accepts that Vince McMahon is a marketing genius and even an anarchist in a never miss Mass on Sunday sort of way.
Dumb latino? You're a vile human being who won't achieve even 1% of what Egan will.
I'm guessing you missed the nuance and context. Sigh.


What an amazing thread this has been.

What an odd, odd race
Racism in all forms should be called out.
 
To be honest I read Buckle's remark as written from the point of view of SDB, as in that SDB would regard Bernal as a "dumb latino", or to use a commonplace English phrase 'a useful idiot'.

It is not a theory with which I agree, but I didnt read it as Buckle meaning that his own view is that Bernal is a "dumb latino".

Still, instant outrage seems to be the name of the game in the internet age, rather than nuanced discussion.
 
Re:

macbindle said:
To be honest I read Buckle's remark as written from the point of view of SDB, as in that SDB would regard Bernal as a "dumb latino", or to use a commonplace English phrase 'a useful idiot'.

It is not a theory with which I agree, but I didnt read it as Buckle meaning that his own view is that Bernal is a "dumb latino".

Still, instant outrage seems to be the name of the game in the internet age, rather than nuanced discussion.
That was my reading as well (not DB, but people in general). But giving people the benefit of the doubt is so last century.
 

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