Urine Trouble

[Mambo95]

Why use a case in France from 1998? Wouldn't it be more 'objective' to use a FDA case as a comparison?

The first one I checked for 'trafficking' had a fine of $250,000.

Yeah, that's a maximum penalty. But let's not make any US Postal smuggling into to some billion dollar Colombian cocaine operation. The maximum penalty in France is considerably more than $4000 too.

Seriously, if when a trial comes, Novitsky says that the only charge is that an associate of LA transported drugs across European borders - you and others would go mental and say 'Is that it! BS". That's my point, but your hatred prefers to ignore that and brand me a fanboy.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

woah, no need to get offensive - I simply mixed up the year of the EPO test initiation with 2005. Leaping to radical conclusions on tiny errors hardly makes anything you right on here that credible if you apply it everywhere. As much as everyone seems to have forgotten, this is a forum, not a place to use faceless anonymity to insult others in an uncivilised manner.

You really think pointing out "except that it shows you have not really followed this case" is insulting and uncivilized?
Obviously I struck a nerve.

 

[yourwelcome]

"He's only different because he was better at it and more successful. So the rest of his team were at it. Is this different than Ullrich, Virenque, Millar etc? Not to me it isn't. A cheat's a cheat in my book."

This is why I accuse you of being a Lance fan

Typical CN forum logic fail.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yeah, that's a maximum penalty. But let's not make any US Postal smuggling into to some billion dollar Colombian cocaine operation. The maximum penalty in France is considerably more than $4000 too.

My sincere apologies.
For some crazy reason I thought the FDA were in the USA not France and would be using current US Federal laws instead of old French laws.

Thanks for pointing out this error.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yeah, that's a maximum penalty. But let's not make any US Postal smuggling into to some billion dollar Colombian cocaine operation. The maximum penalty in France is considerably more than $4000 too.

Man, you're baffling.

If you're going to pick a fight, pick a FIGHT. By that I mean that you keep coming up with ridiculous premises, get schooled, and then switch your stance to a soft one.

It's like you're attacking in the little ring, looking over your shoulder to make sure you didn't p*ss anyone off, and then sit in the break at the back.

Drive it, mutha! Drive it!

 

[Mambo95]

My sincere apologies.
For some crazy reason I thought the FDA were in the USA not France and would be using current US Federal laws instead of old French laws.

Thanks for pointing out this error.

If there's evidence of trafficking across US borders then that's something else to be considered. But thus far (RR excepted), everyone's been talking about movement over EU borders.

US federal laws mean nothing in Europe.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"He's only different because he was better at it and more successful. So the rest of his team were at it. Is this different than Ullrich, Virenque, Millar etc? Not to me it isn't. A cheat's a cheat in my book."



Typical CN forum logic fail.

I am not surprised logic failed you on this occasion when you snip a piece to come to your conclusion.

Here is the full piece to help you.

This is why I accuse you of being a Lance fan -(nothing wrong with that BTW)

The 3 examples you gave all served sanctions for their doping - if you were interested in justice and say ' a cheat is a cheat' then you would be happy to see LA get his day too.

 

[Mambo95]

If you're going to pick a fight, pick a FIGHT. By that I mean that you keep coming up with ridiculous premises, get schooled, and then switch your stance to a soft one.

I'm not picking a fight. On the general point of LA doping, we agree. I just think some of you have lost perspective and have blown the alleged crimes out of all proportion.

There's a bloke who sometimes drinks in a pub near me who apparently used to control 10% of the world's hashish smuggling. That's proper trafficking. What US Postal did is not remotely in the same league.

 

[D-Queued]

I'm not picking a fight. On the general point of LA doping, we agree. I just think some of you have lost perspective and have blown the alleged crimes out of all proportion.

There's a bloke who sometimes drinks in a pub near me who apparently used to control 10% of the world's hashish smuggling. That's proper trafficking. What US Postal did is not remotely in the same league.

Sorry, but that is now a BS PR stance. Check some of the other threads, and how WADA chief Howman is now characterizing PED trafficking as worse than Heroin.

Next thing you know, there will be a poster of Lance with the words 'wanted for drug trafficking' written underneath.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If there's evidence of trafficking across US borders then that's something else to be considered. But thus far (RR excepted), everyone's been talking about movement over EU borders.

US federal laws mean nothing in Europe.

Landis told the SI of one trip to Europe - in Lances private jet, a handy way to bring your PEDs with you.

Secondly, there is a description by former US Postal Service team mate, confessed doper and chief accuser Floyd Landis that Armstrong was caught red-handed with drugs by customs officials in Switzerland. Landis claims that in 2003, he and other US Postal Service riders accompanied Armstrong on a private jet flight to St Moritz in Switzerland.

 

[D-Queued]

Landis told the SI of one trip to Europe - in Lances private jet, a handy way to bring your PEDs with you.

Do you think there could be flight records that corroborate?

Dave.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I'm not picking a fight. On the general point of LA doping, we agree. I just think some of you have lost perspective and have blown the alleged crimes out of all proportion.

There's a bloke who sometimes drinks in a pub near me who apparently used to control 10% of the world's hashish smuggling. That's proper trafficking. What US Postal did is not remotely in the same league.

I can honestly say that if I was familiar with someone who controlled 10% of the global hash trade I wouldn't be killing time on the *** brick.

I'd help being part of that 10%. 10% of global hash would still be a multi-billion dollar industry. Your priorities may be a bit out of whack...

That being said, there's a big difference between 'narco-trafficking' and 'pharmo-trafficking'. The pharmos tend to be a little better protected and have some sweet banking connections. As nice as that sounds, it lends itself to a bit of a trail.

It's about the trail.

 

[Race Radio]

Do you think there could be flight records that corroborate?

Dave.

There were multiple witnesses.....some of whom are talking to Novitzky

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do you think there could be flight records that corroborate?

Dave.

To the best of my knowledge there is no official obligation to hold on to flight records after a short period of time.
However for most of the early 2000's LA was a part owner of an aircraft through (IIRC) Netjet - so they would probably have records of all his flights.

 

[mewmewmew13]

There were multiple witnesses.....some of whom are talking to Novitzky

Thanks for this tidbit RR. It's nice to see some meat come back into this thread...
too much personal stuff aired over the waves sometimes...

 

[BroDeal]

The fanboys must be scared. All the usual suspects poured out of the woodwork today.

 

[The Hitch]

I can honestly say that if I was familiar with someone who controlled 10% of the global hash trade I wouldn't be killing time on the *** brick.

I'd help being part of that 10%. 10% of global hash would still be a multi-billion dollar industry. Your priorities may be a bit out of whack...

Presumably the fact that Mambo says "apparently used to" means that either its a drunk thinks hes Avon Barksdale, or hes someone who had some media spotlight maybe some time but is now out of it. Either way, probably out of it.

As for being part of that 10%, well its not worth it. The sword of damocles over the head of a king is only a toy sword compared to the one hanging over a hash dealer. Gun shot wound is known as natural causes in that proffession. And if the police catch you thats life. And by thats life i dont mean cest la vie". I mean life sentence in prison.

I also agree with Mambo that Armstrongs criminal rank may be a tad overblown. In sports circles, probably the biggest operation on that front ever. But in the wider world, its something that from a moral conscience point of view is very easy to justify.

 

[Polish]

Landis told the SI of one trip to Europe - in Lances private jet, a handy way to bring your PEDs with you.

And yet they made it through Customs Inspection.

How DID they do it?
Most Pro Drug Runners have their ways...
Hopefully they did NOT use puppies
http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/drug-mules/smuggling-slideshow.html
.
.
.

 

[peterst6906]

And yet they made it through Customs Inspection.

How DID they do it?

From SI article in January:

But Landis tells SI about the day in 2003 that he, Armstrong and team members flew into St. Moritz, where customs officials requested that they open their duffel bags for a search. "Lance had a bag of drugs and s---," says Landis. "They wanted to search it, which was out of the ordinary." Sifting through Armstrong's bag, agents found syringes and drugs with labels written in Spanish. As Landis recounts, Armstrong then asked a member of his contingent to convince the agents that the drugs were vitamins and that the syringes were for vitamin injections. The agents "looked at us sideways," says Landis, "but let us through." (Armstrong denies that this incident ever occurred.)

Whether it occurred like that or not, as RR pointed out on the previous page, witness statements will sort that out.

 

[JA.Tri]

Gentlemen, how does the presence of a banned substance in one's urine establish or even support trafficking? It can show that he used the substance, but not that he sold it, traded for it, or gave it away. Unless you are referring to an investigation into the actions of Armstrong's suppliers, which I believe is outside the scope of what is being conducted at this time.

...


....

I recon demonstrating doping thereby challenges LA's credibility... Credibility may play a very important role in defending any "trafficking" charge...

 

[thehog]

Interestingly the AFLD has handed over samples from many riders at USPS - not just Armstrong. As printed today in Le Monde. That will go with the employment law charge and the encouraging others to dope.











(JV)

 

[Anonymous]

Interestingly the AFLD has handed over samples from many riders at USPS - not just Armstrong. As printed today in Le Monde. That will go with the employment law charge and the encouraging others to dope.

that's what i thought and was why i was asking about it earlier... seems much more in keeping with what Novitzky is going after.

 

[Dallas_]

Interestingly the AFLD has handed over samples from many riders at USPS - not just Armstrong. As printed today in Le Monde. That will go with the employment law charge and the encouraging others to dope.
(JV)

I get the impression Novitzky is going straight for the jugular!

Miracle boy did taunt him on twitter.

cheers

 

[python]

if you read this forum long enough, never rush to take what hoggie writes at face value. the wise thing is to wait for a confirmation...

just compare. yesterday le monde on line said 'the process just started' and hoggie said 'has handed'.

i love hoggie but i've been around this corner with him.

 

[Anonymous]

I get the impression Novitzky is going straight for the jugular!

Miracle boy did taunt him on twitter.

can you share his taunt?