Urine Trouble

[GatorGene]

Lance has, indeed, built his whole 'life' on his 'done it all clean' brand, and somehow I still feel that many will idiotically overlook that aspect and still think, "I know he doped but he still helped cancer patients...".

ugh, hope you are %100 correct on your prediction.
cheers

It is not idiotic to think "I know he doped, but he still helped cancer patients". When someone hears "cancer" as a diagnosis, it sounds like a death sentence. Sure, more people routinely survive skin cancers, and early detection saves a lot of other kinds of cancer, too, but realistically, for most people the emotional reaction to "You've got cancer" is "I'm gonna die soon". To survive cancer, or even to just prolong life before succumbing to cancer, people are willing to take all sorts of drugs, and endure all sorts of other painful and uncomfortable treatments. To know that you can survive it, to know that someone else has survived it, is extremely important. To know that cancer can be survived, and that life after cancer can not only be 'normal', but be championship caliber can be a very important emotional factor, and may in fact help some people survive otherwise grueling anti-cancer regimens. I suspect many cancer survivors are less concerned with Lance being drug-free, than they are with just having had an example of what can be done post-cancer, and how they too have a chance for excellence post-death-sentence.

And, frankly, when Lance is proved to have doped, if people continue to think "I don't care that he doped, he's still proof that life can be lived at a high level post-cancer", that will greatly outweigh the harm that he's doing to cycling. I won't like it (hell, I'll hardly be able to stand it) when Lance proclaims that he doped in order to provide hope to cancer patients. But having seen first-hand the role that attitude and emotion can play in fighting cancer, I will still think that being Anti-cancer is much more important than being Pro-cycling. And if any cancer patient wants to keep a "he doped, but" attitude about Lance, she/he should be ENCOURAGED to do so.

Don't let your love for cycling, clean cycling, overwhelm the vastly more important role of attitude in surviving cancer. Vilify Lance forever as a cyclist when the proof's in, but please don't attempt to strip what you view as an illusion from the attitude of anyone suffering from cancer.

 

[D-Queued]

It is not idiotic to think "I know he doped, but he still helped cancer patients". ... Vilify Lance forever as a cyclist when the proof's in, but please don't attempt to strip what you view as an illusion from the attitude of anyone suffering from cancer.

There is nothing stopping anyone who suffers from cancer to decide if they want to deify a lying cheat or not.

Do you think it will help their suffering when they realize the extent to which Livestrong is padding Lance's lifestyle? That their suffering is being misdirected to generated profits on the .com and a complex attempt to fool Internet search engines like Google?

Do you think it is a symptom of cancer that patients cannot see a scam for what it is?

Kind of like stealing from the blind man's cup isn't it?

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

It is not idiotic to think "I know he doped, but he still helped cancer patients". When someone hears "cancer" as a diagnosis, it sounds like a death sentence. Sure, more people routinely survive skin cancers, and early detection saves a lot of other kinds of cancer, too, but realistically, for most people the emotional reaction to "You've got cancer" is "I'm gonna die soon". To survive cancer, or even to just prolong life before succumbing to cancer, people are willing to take all sorts of drugs, and endure all sorts of other painful and uncomfortable treatments. To know that you can survive it, to know that someone else has survived it, is extremely important. To know that cancer can be survived, and that life after cancer can not only be 'normal', but be championship caliber can be a very important emotional factor, and may in fact help some people survive otherwise grueling anti-cancer regimens. I suspect many cancer survivors are less concerned with Lance being drug-free, than they are with just having had an example of what can be done post-cancer, and how they too have a chance for excellence post-death-sentence.

And, frankly, when Lance is proved to have doped, if people continue to think "I don't care that he doped, he's still proof that life can be lived at a high level post-cancer", that will greatly outweigh the harm that he's doing to cycling. I won't like it (hell, I'll hardly be able to stand it) when Lance proclaims that he doped in order to provide hope to cancer patients. But having seen first-hand the role that attitude and emotion can play in fighting cancer, I will still think that being Anti-cancer is much more important than being Pro-cycling. And if any cancer patient wants to keep a "he doped, but" attitude about Lance, she/he should be ENCOURAGED to do so.

Don't let your love for cycling, clean cycling, overwhelm the vastly more important role of attitude in surviving cancer. Vilify Lance forever as a cyclist when the proof's in, but please don't attempt to strip what you view as an illusion from the attitude of anyone suffering from cancer.

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

 

[D-Queued]

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

Well stated.

Given the thread title, I should have used the analogy of ****ing in the blind man's cup instead.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

Its an interesting topic.

I don't know if there's been much research into the use of PED's into cancer risk. I've seen the odd internet report but would actually like to read some serious papers on the topic. Can't say there's been a lot of cancer victims in cycling but in the next 5-10 years we may see a lot more as cyclist retire and find that dope use plus old age has weakened their immune systems.

___

Anabolic steroid and peptide hormones or growth factors are utilized to increase the performance of athletes of professional or amateur sports. Despite their well-documented adverse effects, the use of some of these agents has significantly grown and has been extended also to non-athletes with the aim to improve appearance or to counteract ageing. Pre-clinical studies and epidemiological observations in patients with an excess of hormone production or in patients chronically treated with hormones/growth factors for various pathologies have warned about the potential risk of cancer development and progression which may be also associated to the use of certain doping agents. Anabolic steroids have been described to provoke liver tumours; growth hormone or high levels of its mediator insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) have been associated with colon, breast, and prostate cancers. Actually, IGF-1 promotes cell cycle progression and inhibits apoptosis either by triggering other growth factors or by interacting with pathways which have an established role in carcinogenesis and cancer promotion. More recently, the finding that erythropoietin (Epo) may promote angiogenesis and inhibit apoptosis or modulate chemo- or radiosensitivity in cancer cells expressing the Epo receptor, raised the concern that the use of recombinant Epo to increase tissue oxygenation might favour tumour survival and aggressiveness.

Cancer risk associated to doping might be higher than that of patients using hormones/growth factors as replacement therapy, since enormous doses are taken by the athletes often for a long period of time. Moreover, these substances are often used in combination with other licit or illicit drugs and this renders almost unpredictable all the possible adverse effects including cancer. Anyway, athletes should be made aware that long-term treatment with doping agents might increase the risk of developing cancer.

 

[Race Radio]

It is not idiotic to think "I know he doped, but he still helped cancer patients". When someone hears "cancer" as a diagnosis, it sounds like a death sentence. Sure, more people routinely survive skin cancers, and early detection saves a lot of other kinds of cancer, too, but realistically, for most people the emotional reaction to "You've got cancer" is "I'm gonna die soon". To survive cancer, or even to just prolong life before succumbing to cancer, people are willing to take all sorts of drugs, and endure all sorts of other painful and uncomfortable treatments. To know that you can survive it, to know that someone else has survived it, is extremely important. To know that cancer can be survived, and that life after cancer can not only be 'normal', but be championship caliber can be a very important emotional factor, and may in fact help some people survive otherwise grueling anti-cancer regimens. I suspect many cancer survivors are less concerned with Lance being drug-free, than they are with just having had an example of what can be done post-cancer, and how they too have a chance for excellence post-death-sentence.

And, frankly, when Lance is proved to have doped, if people continue to think "I don't care that he doped, he's still proof that life can be lived at a high level post-cancer", that will greatly outweigh the harm that he's doing to cycling. I won't like it (hell, I'll hardly be able to stand it) when Lance proclaims that he doped in order to provide hope to cancer patients. But having seen first-hand the role that attitude and emotion can play in fighting cancer, I will still think that being Anti-cancer is much more important than being Pro-cycling. And if any cancer patient wants to keep a "he doped, but" attitude about Lance, she/he should be ENCOURAGED to do so.

Don't let your love for cycling, clean cycling, overwhelm the vastly more important role of attitude in surviving cancer. Vilify Lance forever as a cyclist when the proof's in, but please don't attempt to strip what you view as an illusion from the attitude of anyone suffering from cancer.

How does exploiting cancer for personal gain and cover from critics help Cancer patients?

 

[fatandfast]

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

??WT? What pointing signs are you looking at? Testicular cancer is exploding in 15-29 year olds regardless of where they are from. Your non-science,saying that everything points to doping as a possible cause has lots to do with what you wrote after about enrichment,snake oil and nothing to do with credible science and researchers that would confirm that your knowledge of testicles is very limited in size

 

[thehog]

??WT? What pointing signs are you looking at? Testicular cancer is exploding in 15-29 year olds regardless of where they are from. Your non-science,saying that everything points to doping as a possible cause has lots to do with what you wrote after about enrichment,snake oil and nothing to do with credible science and researchers that would confirm that your knowledge of testicles is very limited in size

Maybe the defence will be: "I took cancer inducing drugs so you wouldn't have to. I risked my own life to save others"!

 

[BotanyBay]

if people continue to think "I don't care that he doped, he's still proof that life can be lived at a high level post-cancer", that will greatly outweigh the harm that he's doing to cycling.

I don't need Lance to do that for me. I'm surrounded by survivors who do that every day.

And if I need a celebrity to carry-forth that message, damn, I'll choose Sheryl Crow (or Christina Applegate). Both are far easier on the eyes.

Wünderboy is probably kicking himself for abandoning that Crow-boat. He could have had a super-cancer-surviving mega queen wife.

 

[Cobblestoned]

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

Great piece of crap again that someone can call disgusting.
You are clearly one of those JV is talking about, great Mr.benotti from the great internet.

btw, its not "all signs" - "clinic usual suspects signs" is correct.
We all now their signs and "proofs".

Be careful and have a look.
Could be possible that these are some last warning-signs to stop this.
I will report your ugly "sign" anyway. Ok, it won't make any sense, because the power is with you, but I'll just do it.

I get sick when I see you and thehog talking here.

Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.

BAH !

 

[MacRoadie]

Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.

BAH !

Auf Wiedersehen

 

[Benotti69]

LANCE ÜBER ALLES...


Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.

BAH !

don't let the door hit you on the way out

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.

BAH !

Yipes. Who put the sand in his lederhosen?

 

[MacRoadie]

Yipes. Who put the sand in his lederhosen?

I don't know, but let me buy them the first Augustiner Helles.

 

[Digger]

Great piece of crap again that someone can call disgusting.
You are clearly one of those JV is talking about, great Mr.benotti from the great internet.

btw, its not "all signs" - "clinic usual suspects signs" is correct.
We all now their signs and "proofs".

Be careful and have a look.
Could be possible that these are some last warning-signs to stop this.
I will report your ugly "sign" anyway. Ok, it won't make any sense, because the power is with you, but I'll just do it.

I get sick when I see you and thehog talking here.

Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.
BAH !

Take a good long look in the mirror. The absence of youranger and sarcasm will make the place far better and at least we won't have to wade through the drivel you post.

 

[Race Radio]

-------

There is a very strong likelihood that Armstrong's cancer was at the least accelerated by his drug use. Even Dr. Ferrari expressed concern that his program had caused Lance's cancer.

It is clear that Armstrong has used the cancer cause for his personal financial benefit and as cover from legitimate questioning.

Defending this exploitation and pretending it did not happen is disgusting, pointing it out is not.

 

[Hugh Januss]

don't let the door hit you on the way out

I'm betting we don't get more than 3-4 hours tops before he's back.

 

[flicker]

This is an appalling statement when you know that LA most likely, all signs point to it, got cancer in his testicles from using dope since he was a teen triathlete and then to survive cancer, which is a lotto and use that survival to enrich himself on the back of others suffering from the same terrible disease is disgusting. He's a snake oil salesman at best.

What will people think that this guy survived it and then used it for himself and not to help others. The sooner people forget about him as a miracle man and face the realities of cancer the better. It is a terrible terrible disease, but wonderboy aint gonna save anyone from it.

In a court of law, your statement about Lances' testicular cancer would be stricken from the record.
Most rational people would find your comments about Lances' testicular cancer in bad taste, disgusting, unfounded, and hateful.
In the forum you get a pat on the back, and a hardy well done by the Lance haters'
Go figure.

 

[BotanyBay]

Good bye, clinic !

There are those who just leave without saying anything. Those are the people who have left.

This man is not capable of leaving. He'll be desperate to see what we're saying about him now.

 

[Anonymous]

Great piece of crap again that someone can call disgusting.
You are clearly one of those JV is talking about, great Mr.benotti from the great internet.

btw, its not "all signs" - "clinic usual suspects signs" is correct.
We all now their signs and "proofs".

Be careful and have a look.
Could be possible that these are some last warning-signs to stop this.
I will report your ugly "sign" anyway. Ok, it won't make any sense, because the power is with you, but I'll just do it.

I get sick when I see you and thehog talking here.

Good bye, clinic ! I don't need this stuff any more, as long as such people can place their disgusting hate without any consequences.


BAH !

We'll miss you.

 

[Polish]

So, some of you are arguing that EPO is at least indirectly (or maybe even directly) responsible for the creation of LiveStrong.org

That is looking at bright side for sure. I like it

That is even more positive than Lance's 1999 samples lol.

Wonderful Silver Lining indeed.

"Was I deceiv'd, or did a sable cloud
Turn forth her silver lining on the night?"

 

[flicker]

There are those who just leave without saying anything. Those are the people who have left.

This man is not capable of leaving. He'll be desperate to see what we're saying about him now.

I guess you have created 'plotz' with cobblestoned. He takes good taste and courtesy seriously.

 

[Barrus]

Lets not make this entire thread about the supposed end of 'stoned in the clinic

 

[Colm.Murphy]

In a court of law, your statement about Lances' testicular cancer would be stricken from the record.

It would depend on why the parties would be in court. if lance were suing Carmichael for doping him up and was claiming that all the stuff Carmichael pumped into him sped up the rate of him developing cancer, then I truly doubt it would be stricken. If Mr. Benotti attended a proceeding where Lance appeared, and he shouted this out, then not only would it be stricken but Mr. Benotti would likely be physically removed from the court, possibly arrested for contempt of court.

Most rational people would find your comments about Lances' testicular cancer in bad taste, disgusting, unfounded, and hateful.

No. Rational people can view the development of Lance's cancer as an issue that begs greater investigation, given the volume of information and evidence out there that Lance doped for extended periods of time and the buse of steroids DOES increase tumor size and development rates, possibly being the cause of the cancer. People who have cancer genes are more likely to ramp up the rate at which the predisposed cancer would have developed if they abuse anabolics and peptide hormones. To ignore this is immature, ignorant and shows a narrowness of mind that is often exemplified by your posts.

In the forum you get a pat on the back, and a hardy well done by the Lance haters'
Go figure.

Not true. This is about discussion, speculation and sharing ideas. When an idea or supposition becomes a fact, we then can choose to agree, or in many cases you've shown, and deliberately ignore reality and truth paired with established consequences. Should others agree with an idea or speculation, it is simply freedom of thought and expression, which you treat as vile sacrilege.

An a non-US citizen, the freedoms I observe you attempting to blunt is what I find in bad taste, disgusting, unfounded, and hateful.

 

[thehog]

Cancer (c) 1999 Livestrong.com