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US cycling scene in the 70s and 80s

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Oct 16, 2010
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blutto said:
....as I have always suspected and above clearly shows Merikan athletes are as clean as the driven snow and their performance driven by milk and apple pie and hugs from mom....whereas you can't trust those swarthy underhanded European types, especially those gawd-less Eastern ones, as they will do anything and everything to snatch the glory that rightfully belongs to those righteous citizens of the shiny city on the hill ( and occasionally other worthy English speakers )...as it has always been so help me gawd...

Cheers

It's remarkable that this 'episode' in American Olympic history has never been properly reviewed, despite the fact that Dardik's plans to turn the OTCs into a kind of PED haven for juniors, and Colonel Miller's full endorsement of those plans, had been rather explicitly publicized in mainstream journals.
This press release is from the Washington Post, again 1977:
Don Miller, executive director of the USOC, said that the medical program would become "the first centralized place where we can coordinate all this information in the United States."

Research. "We want to go into blood doping, steroids and all these other areas that have sprung up in athletics," said Darkik. "Our purpose here is to leave no stone unturned. We want to find out what these things mean and then develop policies to govern their use.

"We want to strip away the mystery surrounding them. As long as athletes think they are being used, they carry some sort of mystique. We want to change that."

...

Miller admits that Congress at least will have to supply money for the regional training centers. The $6 million set aside for those centers and the $1.5 million for the sports medicine program are over and above the $26 million on the four-year budget."

"We've begun programs that people have asked for for years," said Miller. "Now those same people have to help us keep them going or we'll be back where we started."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1977/06/09/three-training-centers-to-bring-20th-century-to-us-athletes/83672433-a02a-4b0b-8c96-c9e951e5667b/
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Here another one.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19791229&id=GXtQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fBIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6721,5988059&hl=en
(also: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/16831131/)

Blood doping and steroids are again explicitly mentioned.
Few American trainers care to follow their lead, however, in experimenting with steroids, blood doping, ^carbohydrate loading and f "other practices from the sometimes murky world of ( sports medicine. i But... t_hey recognize J something must be'done. j A catchup .effort has 1 been under way at'the U.S. t Olympic Committee's J Squaw Valley ' training ;, center since it opened in » May 1977. Director -Lew [ Whiting says eventually the I USOC hopes to build a 'computer data bank" including, the profiles' of hundreds of athletes and the effecte'od different' training methods pn perr j formance.

I lolled a bit here:
"The Sports Medicine Program [in Squaw Valley] has been fantastic. They found my arms were weaker than my legs, and so they developed a program to strengthen my upper body".
Well worth a read.
Hagerman in the spotlights.

edit: I see it's a different Hagerman. It's not Fredrick "Fritz" Hagerman, but Gene (Topper) Hagerman.
Family maybe?
edit: Yes, brothers.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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sniper said:
"They found my arms were weaker than my legs, and so they developed a program to strengthen my upper body".
Incline dumbbell curve 4 x 10
Hammer curl 4 x 10
Close grip EZ-bar curl 4 x 10
Wide grip EZ-bar curl 5 x 10
 
Re:

sniper said:

But note that Dardik is quoted in this article as being against PED use. In some of your other links, it’s stated that he was a strong advocate of studying their effects. That could be, of course, a cover for a program designed to give PEDs to athletes and maximize their effects. But given that these substances were banned, I question whether anyone who wanted to use them against the rules would publicly acknowledge giving them to athletes in tests. Of course, my view is colored by present-day public attitudes towards PEDs. In those days, it may have been different.

In any case, I think at a minimum Dardik wanted to find out how much of an advantage the Eastern European athletes were getting through PED use. Maybe if and when he found out, he decided that American athletes had no choice but to dope to keep up, but I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt and argue that initially he may have hoped to avoid PED use—to show American athletes that they could get the same benefits through clean programs. All these stories really demonstrate is that he was well aware of PED use by successful Olympic athletes from other countries, which of course, was no secret to anyone by that time.

That said, it would of course quickly become apparent to any objective scientist that doping did provide advantages that could not be overcome by better training. Programs in biomechanics, nutrition, bio-feedback, special training schedules, etc., are basically marginal gains in this environment. The founders of these training centers placed on themselves enormous pressure to turn out world-class performances, and the temptation to turn to doping at that point would have been enormous.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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I don't know what you've read and haven't read, so I can only speak for myself here. Having read what I've read (most of which I've linked to and cited fragments from in this and the Lemond thread), I personally have zero doubts about the doping agenda of Dardik, Ariel, Miller and the OTCs.
The explicitly formulated and publicly stated aims were to play catchup with the bloc-countries, experiment with blood doping and steroids (a.o.), and combine this with systematic internal antidoping testing to make sure everybody would fly under the radar at the 80s Olympics in Moscow (which of course they ended up boycotting, but that was not part of the plan).

Sure, no crazy stuff like making women pregnant to increase their testosterone levels. But apart from that...
And sure enough, not all people involved may have seen this as something illegal or bad.
That of course goes for doping programs of all times: there are always people involved who don't necessarily mean any harm. So I'm not saying all people involved were bad guys.
Dardik and Ariel though...check out their wikipedias for more 'fun' facts, should you still have any doubts about their intentions. Quacks in the true sense.

As for Dardik sounding antidoping in that article, I've addressed that above.
You literally see the sea change following the doping and thus PR fiascos of the 83 Pan Am Games and the 84 Olympics. Suddenly Dardik and also Don Miller and some others start singing from the same antidoping hymn sheet. It's in fact fairly obvious.
Les Earnest on Dardik:
The USOC's Dr. Irving Dardik was quoted by Sports Illustrated as saying “It's absolute that this [the 84 BB program] was unethical, unacceptable and illegal as far as the USOC was concerned. All [this discussion of] questionable legality to me [is] immaterial.” His statement that it was “illegal” was a flagrant, self-serving lie. I was pleased to see Dr. Dardik get kicked out of the USOC a year or so after this incident. He had apparently played a few too many political games for even that political organization to swallow.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Remember what Dardik said:
sniper said:
Dardik said the panel was prepared to investigate controversial areas of sports medicine, including the effects of anabolic steroids and blood doping on performance, and make judgements, on their po- tentiar benefits to American athletes. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/43349025/

One member of Dardik's panel was David L. Costill, renowned exercise physiologists.
Now, the following is a study by this Costill (together with David Pearson) from 1981, with testing conducted, I assume, in 1980. The subjects are weightlifters, shot putters, discuss throwers and bodybuilders.
I'm gonna make the educated guess here that at least some of the steroid-taking subjects of his study were athletes who enrolled in the OTC in 1978.

Use of Anabolic Steroids by National Level Athletes.

“The use of steroids by athletes has increased drastically in recent years. Unfortunately, most research has dealt with dosages far below those actually used by athletes. In an effort to shed some light on the problem venous blood and muscle biopsy samples (10 hrs. post-absorptive) were taken from national athletes (n=17) who had admitted using anabolic steroids (x=173 mg/wk) for at least two years (AS).

The growing use of anabolic steroids among athletes necessitates more research, investigating dosages near those which athletes frequently employ.”
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246529272_10_USE_OF_ANABOLIC_STEROIDS_BY_NATIONAL_LEVEL_ATHLETES

'Fun' fact: in the article reference is made to earlier steroid studies from OTC members Fredrick Hagerman (et al., 1975) and Gideon Ariel (1972). Small world.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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^ David Costill did another study in 1981 testing the diuretic drug Lasix on track and field athletes.
He was also the mentor of Ed Burke, btw, one of the architects of the 84 blood boosting program.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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It's funny to see sometimes how small this world is.

So David Costill, recruited by Irving Dardik to work for the OTC, is mentor of Ed Burke. Burke then joins Eddie B.'s coaching staff at the OTC/USCF.
And remember Gene Topper Hagerman, physiologist/coach of the US Ski team and brother of Fredrick Fritz Hagerman. Both brothers recruited by Irving Dardik to do physiological testing at the OTC.
Now this Topper Hagerman, in turn, introduces Ed Burke to Thom Weisel (who was strongly involved in US Skiing and considered an important backer of USOC).
Ed Burke subsequently ends up introducing Thom Weisel to Eddie B.
And Eddie introduces Weisel to Greg Lemond, who, back in the late 70s, had done physiological testing with Burke and Hagerman (Fritz, I assume, but could also be Topper).

Fwiw, the Burke-Weisel-Eddie link is described in Weisel's book "Capital Instincts" (2006).
According to "Wheelmen", otoh, the link Weisel-eddie was allegedly established by Mike Fraysse.

Either way, Weisel and Eddie hook up in 1985 and the rest is history.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Apologies, as this thread is inevitably turning into the "(Olympic) doping in the US (60s-80s)" thread.

To summarize some of the above, we have:
- institutionalized doping with political consent (Amateur Sports Act) overseen by USOC
- internal testing from USOC
- docs and physiologists doping athletes under the umbrella of 'health care' and 'sports science'
- 'independent' investigations that are everything except independent
- the narrative of 'good anglophones' vs. 'evil (eastern) europeans'
Funny to see how much of the stuff that was going on back then turns out to have been merely some sort of prequel to the stuff we've seen in the 90s and 2000s up to present.
Basically it's SSDD.

The following is a very strong piece from 2016 centered around the 1983 Pan Am Games doping scandal. It cements some of the points I've been trying to make earlier:
- doping was absolutely rampant and pervasive,
- USOC facilitated it at the Olympic level,
- public perception of doping (and thus doping-related PR) in the US changed due to the doping scandals in 83 and 84.
- none of this 70s-80s doping stuff has hitherto really been properly reviewed.

REF:
Jan Todd & Daniel L. Rosenke. 2016. 'The Event That Shook the Whole World Up’: Historicizing the 1983 Pan-American Games Doping Scandal. In: The International Journal of the History of Sport , Volume 33, Issue 1-2.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09523367.2016.1152961#.Vzm3Vb4jWM8)
Unfortunately accessible only with subscription.
Below I've quoted what I think are the most relevant bits.

ABSTRACT
In August of 1983 at the Pan-American Games in Caracas, Venezuela,
a multi-faceted doping crisis occurred that overshadowed all other
aspects of the games. This essay marks the first attempt to historicize
the events surrounding this watershed moment in the fight against
drug use in sport. Doping was revealed in three ways in Caracas: by
the large number of positive tests that resulted in the first loss to
doping of medals in the history of the Pan-American Games, by the
exodus of the 12 American track and field athletes who flew home
rather than be subject to testing in the sophisticated lab run by Dr
Manfred Donike, and by a rash of ‘injuries’ and unexpectedly poor
performances that kept athletes out of the medals and thus out of
Donike’s lab. In the aftermath of the games, the United States Olympic
Committee implemented new policies to ensure that Americans
competing in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games would not run
the risk of similar public embarrassment.

The Caracas doping scandal did not result in a government-led hearing – as Johnson’s positive test did in Canada with the creation of the Dubin Commission2 – but, even so, the widespread use of performance enhancing drugs revealed in Caracas had profound and far-reaching effects that have, until now, been largely
overlooked by historians.3

On the impact of the Pan Am Games fiasco on public perception of doping in the US:
...the highly visible exodus of the American track athletes from Caracas, and the extensive coverage the entire doping scandal generated in newspapers, magazines, and on US television signaled an end of innocence on the doping question, especially for mainstream Americans.5 After Caracas, it was impossible for people in North America to believe that drug use was practiced only by Soviet-bloc athletes looking for an advantage.

...
The Caracas Scandal’s most important legacy, however, was the end of innocence for
mainstream Americans regarding the use of ergogenic drugs by athletes. Elliott Almond
and Julie Cart described it as ‘an ending and a beginning in the world of drugs in amateur
sports. It was the end of public and press ignorance of what had been an underground
epidemic of drug use in sport’.

On USOC's complicity (withdrawing athletes after increased testing was announced):
The men were aided in their departure by Evie Dennis and other USOC officials who managed to get tickets for all of them on short notice and organized a van to transport them to the airport. Atwood later commented on the ‘uncommon helpfulness’ of the USOC officials, amazed that it was so ‘very easy
for me to leave’.105 Robert Fachet of the Washington Post later referred to it as the USOC
Underground Railroad.

Remarkable statement from Roy Bergman, chief physician of the US team
Roy Bergman, chief physician for the US team, went even further, ‘I
think it [avoiding the testing] is more negative than taking the drugs. Taking the drugs is at least with the intent to win… It’s just an anathema to the American way of life for anyone to lose intentionally’.

An 'independent' investigation is launched:
On 17 September 1983, back home in Colorado Springs, Miller and the USOC announced
the founding of the new USOC Task Force on Drug Control. Directed by Dr. Dan Hanley,
who played such a large role in the events in Caracas, the task force also included physician
Roy Bergman, Harmon Brown from TAC’s Medical Committee, Irving Dardik of the USOC
Sports Medicine Council, Robert Voy of the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs,
and four others.

Most revealing, on how USOC continued enabling doping after 83:
130 Despite USOC President William Simon’s additional pronouncements in
Sports Illustrated that it was time athletes understand ‘that we mean business’, and that the
USOC would send only clean athletes to the 1984 Olympics,131 the USOC testing program
that evolved over the next 12 months preserved all possible sporting advantage for the
United States, rather than upholding the spirit of fair play. Bergman may have truly believed
that performing poorly in order to avoid the drug tests in Caracas was a betrayal akin to
‘the Black Sox Scandal all over again’, but the bigger scandal that emerged from the 1983
Pan American Games was how America’s sporting officials failed to adopt legitimate testing
procedures after being so publicly shamed in the eyes of the rest of the world.

...

In ‘USOC Info Sheet 7-1’ released in October of 1983, it was made clear that the USOC’s new drug testing program ‘can be requested by an NGB for formal and informal purposes’ (emphasis in the original). Formal testing, the document explained, would lead to punishment of the athlete, while ‘the informal option permits
educational or research experiences to be applied’.134 As was learned after the 1984 Olympics
had concluded, the USOC and its constituent national governing bodies did virtually no
formal testing between Caracas and the 1984 Olympics. Instead, they created a system
that helped athletes become educated on how to time their drug use in order to avoid detection, just as was being done in East Germany and the Soviet Union.

...

Javelin thrower Duncan Atwood, who pulled out of
Caracas rather than be tested, remained unconvinced that the USOC’s testing program
was stopping drug use as late as 1987. Said Atwood, ‘I think drug testing is great, but I
don’t know how well it works … a lot of people are learning their washout times … I’m no
scientist, but that’s what I’m hearing’.

Conclusion:
The battle – played out in biochemistry laboratories, in the ivy-covered offices of academic ethicists, in the back-room sessions of political advisors looking for a way to leverage more votes, and in the high-rise
offices of the lords of sport whose raison d’etre is always to produce athletes who can win
without besmirching the reputation of their team – is still being waged.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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sniper said:
^ David Costill did another study in 1981 testing the diuretic drug Lasix on track and field athletes.
He was also the mentor of Ed Burke, btw, one of the architects of the 84 blood boosting program.

This one?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4033401

FWIW, I was a subject for some of the pilot work leading up to that study. The purpose was to help differentiate between dehydration and hyperthermia as mechanisms contributing to reductions in performance during exercise in the heat.

IOW, nothing at all to do with doping to improve performance...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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acoggan said:
sniper said:
^ David Costill did another study in 1981 testing the diuretic drug Lasix on track and field athletes.
He was also the mentor of Ed Burke, btw, one of the architects of the 84 blood boosting program.

This one?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4033401

FWIW, I was a subject for some of the pilot work leading up to that study. The purpose was to help differentiate between dehydration and hyperthermia as mechanisms contributing to reductions in performance during exercise in the heat.

IOW, nothing at all to do with doping to improve performance...
thanks for chiming in.
your name came up earlier in respect to that period, although i dont remember exactly where or in which context.
either way, interesting to hear you were there.

yes, thats the study, he describes how several subjects, running a variey of distances, improved their personal best by several seconds after using the product, in regular competitions iinm.
i wasnt expecting him to say much more than that, actually.
i didnt check if the product was prohibited at the time. Do you know?

can you perhaps say more about the subjects? were you or any of the subjects enrolled at the OTC?

he also did a coffee study where he makes good propaganda for the use of coffee as a performance enhancer.
he had to defend himself against quite a bit of criticism for that study and iirc he decided later to publish a mollified version to meet the critics.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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for the hagerman brothers u,r a bit late to the party.
have been discussed extensively here and in the lemond thread.
if you have something to add to that, i,d be very curious.

miracle on ice, yes, my bad thinking it was heiden. Here too, you,re about the 3rd or 4th to point it out.
if u have content to add wrt heiden, by all means.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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acoggan said:
sniper said:
Dr.Guess said:
...
On a side note. The miracle on ice, how legitimate is that?
well, blood doping wasn't illegal at the time.
all his communist competitors were doing it, that's pretty much a fact.
so if transfusing is all he did, then the miracle deserves credit.
But I doubt that's all he did.

Uh... :confused:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_Ice
old news dude brah. I pointed that out way back then.
 
Re:

sniper said:
for the hagerman brothers u,r a bit late to the party.
have been discussed extensively here and in the lemond thread.
if you have something to add to that, i,d be very curious.

miracle on ice, yes, my bad thinking it was heiden. Here too, you,re about the 3rd or 4th to point it out.
if u have content to add wrt heiden, by all means.

sniper...you are the party

awaits ban ;)
 
Mar 18, 2009
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sniper said:
yes, thats the study, he describes how several subjects, running a variey of distances, improved their personal best by several seconds after using the product, in regular competitions iinm.

Now you're just making stuff up. There is no mention of individual results in the paper whatsoever. Furthermore, all of the data are from trials conducted strictly for research purposes, i.e., no actual competitions were involved.

sniper said:
i wasnt expecting him to say much more than that, actually.
i didnt check if the product was prohibited at the time. Do you know?

No idea.

sniper said:
can you perhaps say more about the subjects? were you or any of the subjects enrolled at the OTC?

I would assume that the subjects were mostly (entirely?) grad and undergrad students at Ball State in Muncie, IN, where the study was conducted. Certainly none of runners were good enough to have any connections to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, CO. After all, the fastest 1500 m time was 4:15 and the fastest 10 km time was 33:29, which is about as quick as a good high schooler can run.
 
acoggan said:
Tonton said:
Let's make sure that the tone remains courteous, please. Thank you.

Apologies. I just felt that sniper needed to be called out on his blatant lies.

I don't know why you are apologising when you were spot on. There should be a sticky of what you said somewhere in here. If a poster is just making stuff up, distorting facts and generally running a campaign of disinformation, they should be called on it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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acoggan said:
Now you're just making stuff up. There is no mention of individual results in the paper whatsoever. Furthermore, all of the data are from trials conducted strictly for research purposes, i.e., no actual competitions were involved.
no, not making it up.
i now see he did more than one study on diuretics, so i must have read it in another study than the one you linked.
I will look tomorrow.

so if i understand correctly, you were a subject in that study but you don't know if the product you were given was banned or not?

I would assume that the subjects were mostly (entirely?) grad and undergrad students at Ball State in Muncie, IN, where the study was conducted. Certainly none of runners were good enough to have any connections to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, CO. After all, the fastest 1500 m time was 4:15 and the fastest 10 km time was 33:29, which is about as quick as a good high schooler can run.
thanks, good info.
What about Costill's anabolic steroid study on national level athletes. Any idea if there were OTC athletes involved?

What happened to the part of your post about caffeine?
You said I was "making *** up" there.
Having second thoughts? :) :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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sniper said:
acoggan said:
Now you're just making stuff up. There is no mention of individual results in the paper whatsoever. Furthermore, all of the data are from trials conducted strictly for research purposes, i.e., no actual competitions were involved.
no, not making it up.
i now see he did more than one study on diuretics, so i must have read it in another study than the one you linked.
I will look tomorrow.
#20: INFLUENCE OF DIMINISHED PLASMA VOLUME ON RUNNING PERFORMANCE
L. E. Armstrong · D. L. Costill · M. Grosso · A. Barnett · A. Orheim · W. Pink · L. Hermansen
No preview · Article · Jan 1981 · Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

Brief summary of findings:
- diuretic drug Lasix
- tested on 8 athletes
- doing randomized events (1500m, 5000m, 10.000m)
- performance times increased 8.4 seconds on average

you're welcome. ;)