US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[goober]

Should be interesting to see just what the DOJ is willing to share with USADA.

Seems to me they are in a tight spot: send too much and it looks like they had plenty of evidence but dropped the investigation for political purposes.

Send too little and it looks like they spent two years wasting money and getting nothing out of it (even if they claim there is more that they can't send, but are bound by GJ secrecy).

Seems to be a lose-lose situation for them and every step they take has at least the potential for added scrutiny.

They have very little to 'send' regarding Lance. But boat loads regarding some now defunct domestic teams.

 

[orbeas]

Armstrong

Really everbody should have listened to Phil Ligget, think od the money it would have saved

"He told me in a private situation, when I wasn’t working as a journalist. I was sat in the bedroom some years ago, and I asked him point blank, ‘look Lance, the way I talked you up on television, I would have to back off and resign if you one day went positive’. And he looked at me and he said ‘man I’ve seen death in the face and I don’t take drugs.’ And that’s all he said. I have no reason to disbelieve him.”

“But I’ve been with him on his private jet when he’s been reading stuff on Cyclingnews and he’s gone, ‘god damn it look at what they’re saying about me again’ and he just passes his computer over to his friends.”

 

[Race Radio]

Trust me the 'evidence' was almost not even there. The only evidence was completely objective as to say anyone who has sold a bike bought drugs. They were contemplating dropping this almost 9 months ago, then in November but did not because somehow they were going to find evidence. In December evidence came - evidence that slowly began backfiring. More to come....

Was there no evidence of witness intimidation? None?

 

[mewmewmew13]

A lot of good is coming out of the former investigation. A lot of healing for many victims, As far as attacking the US judicial system, this matter does nothing.
The judicial system is protected iron clad by the Constitution and its amendments.

I have some major problems with these casually-tossed 'statements'.

Can you back up any/ some of this ??

"A lot of good"
Really?? why does that sound so familiar....

 

[Deagol]

You're confusing a politically motivated administrative call with the Judicial System. This matter hasn't gotten to any adjudication, yet. The manner at which Birotte suspended the GJ seems to have backfired and the net effect looks to be more, not less scrutiny.

God, there is a lot to catch up with. Can you elaborate on how the suspension of the investigation may have backfired ?

Thanks ...

 

[Granville57]

Really, you guys need to do better then that. Quick, you are running out of time.

Hey, what happened to all the people telling me I am a fool?

 

[Velodude]

What happens to the evidence gathered by the European authorities?

Would the USADA be privy to any of the evidence gathered from across the pond?

Easiest way is to upload it to a website then it is in the public domain and not requiring production by compulsion.

Landis attorneys claimed in the 2007 Arbitration hearing the hacked "evidence", which they falsely edited, from the French LNDD lab was in the public domain.

It is difficult to subpoena overseas evidence from non US nationals but not impossible. Compliance is required to the local laws and rules and it may be required to establish the proceedings on the local registry.

However, if overseas evidence is volunteered then it could be admitted under a simple cover of an affidavit. Problem could be that LA's lawyers could demand the appearance of the deponent for cross-examination.

 

[Spider1964]

Was there no evidence of witness intimidation? None?

Well tell us? Was there? Are you referring to Cache Cache?

I've held you out to be a reliable source over the journey RR, but some of your most recent prognostications reek of snark? As though you have too much invested in this? What has Lance done (to you) that upsets you so much? And don't give me the "question the myth" BS. We're all questioning. You still haven't answered my genuine question to you about 25 pages back.. Facetious or not?

You're right, there's been plenty of gloating (from both sides) on this thread the past few days, but this thread reflects the whole investigation.. A bloody mess.

Let's hope something good comes out of it...

USADA - hopeful.
Qui Tam - not convinced.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Trust me the 'evidence' was almost not even there. The only evidence was completely objective as to say anyone who has sold a bike bought drugs. They were contemplating dropping this almost 9 months ago, then in November but did not because somehow they were going to find evidence. In December evidence came - evidence that slowly began backfiring. More to come....

Why is this plausible? I could state the exact opposite with a 'trust me' too and it would have no bearing on what may be going on inside the investigation.

You like your credibility, fine. But NPR has multiple sources saying the opposite. What's your credibility as compared to NPR? As much as mine and, that is nothing.

Get your story onto NPR to muddy the narrative. If your word is gold, then there are others who would back your story for NPR. I'd rather know that the status of the investigation was exactly as clear as mud if that approximated reality. Prove me wrong. I welcome it.

 

[pmcg76]

I have to say, this Goober character seems to have more inside info on what has happened than anyone else on here including RR. The only thing I dont understand is if they have so much information about Rock Racing, why did they shut it down even if they couldnt nail Armstrong. If Armstrong wasnt the target, what was the whole point.

I also had a look at what Matt DeCanio had to say and it would seem that even if this goes to USADA it might not go too far with Travis Tygart involved.

http://www.stolenunderground.com/

Right now I see nothing coming out of this other than a few US based riders getting busted.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I have to say, this Goober character seems to have more inside info on what has happened than anyone else on here including RR.

And yet, NPR's reporting the exact opposite. Which one has nothing to lose by making stuff up, Goober or NPR?

As a gentle reminder, my position has been It would be great if there were some convictions, but the political and economic reality of the matter could get in the way...

 

[BotanyBay]

I have not seen anything that points to corruption. I see someone who skillfully used the political system for his benefit. That is legal here. If you are rich and famous you get better access. If you hire somebody who can work the system you get better access.

Correct. This is the priviledge of the executive branch. If you can afford access to the upper-echelons of the Obama administration, you can get away with a crime (no doubt). Your acces can make your case just "go away".

But just like Holder is on the hot seat regarding "Fast & Furious", it is possible that he will soon be on the hot-seat for the Armstrong case. It sounds like there is/was enough public interest in the case's outcome that people are starting to say "huh?". With a 40-minute piece on 60 Minutes and a slew of other recent media bombshells, people won't just casually accept a closing of this case. Perhaps a year ago, but certainly not now. Fabiani must have worked some extraordinary kung-fu in the last month.

The fact that NPR hopped-on so early means (to me) that the kettle is starting to boil.

And what of Outside, Sports Illustrated and 60 Minutes? They end up looking like a bunch of retards with this outcome. Don't expect them to just roll over and die without a serious examination of why this huge "non-event" came to be a non-event.

 

[BotanyBay]

I have to say, this Goober character seems to have more inside info on what has happened than anyone else on here including RR. The only thing I dont understand is if they have so much information about Rock Racing, why did they shut it down even if they couldnt nail Armstrong. If Armstrong wasnt the target, what was the whole point.

I also had a look at what Matt DeCanio had to say and it would seem that even if this goes to USADA it might not go too far with Travis Tygart involved.

http://www.stolenunderground.com/

Right now I see nothing coming out of this other than a few US based riders getting busted.

Initially, I laughed when you brought-up Decanio's opinion. No offense, but the homie is a bit bi-polar.

But I decided to have a look anyway. Notice that his reaction to the killing of the Armstrong investigation was dated THURSDAY, FEB 2nd.. Birotte didn't announce the death until Friday.

So how does a screwball like Decanio get the advance skinny?

 

[scribe]

Was there no evidence of witness intimidation? None?

It was well publicized......

So where are these charges?

 

[pmcg76]

And yet, NPR's reporting the exact opposite. Which one has nothing to lose by making stuff up, Goober or NPR?

As a gentle reminder, my position has been It would be great if there were some convictions, but the political and economic reality of the matter could get in the way...

Yeah but that is to do with the case being dropped. Does it actually say there is lots of evidence against Armstrong. No, it just says the prosecutors had a good case, but against whom? I admit to not following this case closely but I also got the impression that Armstrong was the focus but it is also possible that maybe that wasnt the case.

Goober has stated they have loads of stuff on Rock Racing but little on Lance. Both what NPR and Goober are saying can sit with each other comfortably without being contradictory unless Lance truly was the focus.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Great. The battle is now between an internet poster named "goober" and National Public Radio.

 

[ChrisE]

Trust me the 'evidence' was almost not even there. The only evidence was completely objective as to say anyone who has sold a bike bought drugs. They were contemplating dropping this almost 9 months ago, then in November but did not because somehow they were going to find evidence. In December evidence came - evidence that slowly began backfiring. More to come....

Why should I trust you? You are no more privy to the evidence than any of us.

 

[BotanyBay]

It was well publicized......

So where are these charges?

Lance bought himself a friend in San Diego, who in-turn leveraged his own high-placed friendships for Lance's benefit. You can't buy a friend, but you can rent one. Sort of like Afghans.

You know, sort of how you go into a VIP room and leverage assets of a different kind . When you're life's existence is as shallow as Lance's, you pay your way through life.

Let's see how good a friend the owner of Cache Cache is after Lance can't afford to plunk down for a party of 10 anymore.

 

[BillytheKid]

Wether it's NPR or the WSJ, no-name sources are lame. It most cases it's bird dogging trying flush the pray or evidence. To me it is sign that the evidence is weak like a real s***** attack during Cat. 3 club race.

 

[patricknd]

Why should I trust you? You are no more privy to the evidence than any of us.

how could you not trust someone named goober

 

[ChrisE]

Great. The battle is now between an internet poster named "goober" and National Public Radio.

Somebody that has no accountability ie there is no way to verify his info, vs a bunch of stenographers.

 

[MacRoadie]

And yet, NPR's reporting the exact opposite. Which one has nothing to lose by making stuff up, Goober or NPR?

Not to mention the fact that NPR is the bastion of the uber-liberal left-wing media and the last place you're likely to find questions raised about an Obama administration DOJ, or a US Attorney with strong connections to Barbara Boxer...

 

[pmcg76]

Why should I trust you? You are no more privy to the evidence than any of us.

TBH, I think you would find you would like a lot of what he has to say about a variety of subjects.

 

[ChrisE]

how could you not trust someone named goober

For him to have any credibility in here he needs a name like "Race Radio".

 

[ChrisE]

TBH, I think you would find you would like a lot of what he has to say about a variety of subjects.

I'm sorry, did I say I would not like what he says on a variety of subjects?

Or, did I say he was not privy to any information about the case?

I hope you can clear this up for me. Thanks.