US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry. No time.

Thats quite alirght Mark- is I said I am quiet happy to debate or discuss your opinions - time should not be a factor.

Indeed you may benefit from the time delay to show where I have been "miscasting" your arguments and "misquoting" you.

 

[MarkvW]

What about YOUR points? You argue one position one day and the next day it's the complete opposite.

You're either schizophrenic or purposely duplicitous. And I've seen some instances where you're on the computer ALL DAY LONG bloviating to no end.

Get a grip, man. It's not like we don't know what your agenda continues to be.

One thing for sure. My agenda isn't the same as the 108 people who made a silly petition asking the President of the U.S. to violate grand jury secrecy just so a wound could be inflicted on Lance Armstrong!

 

[Velodude]

Next - the USADA Investigation

The USADA investigation will get everyone's appetite once again whetted no matter what side of the fence you are on or constantly change.

The USADA decision on Eddy Hellebuyck handed down on February 5, 2012 has thrown a cat amongst the pigeons for the Armstrong camp and all his fans.

The 8 year statute of limitations can be extended if the potential respondent, LE Armstrong, was fraudulent in his conduct by previously denying performance enhancing drug use.

Litigation History of Drug Use Denial and Alleged Drug Use Denial

He certainly denied drug use under oath at the SCA deposition hearing on November 11, 2005 [for Polish p30 of transcript].

Armstrong made it game on through breaching the confidentiality of the settlement by boasting about his victory. The transcript is in the public domain as a result.

To obtain settlement for libel from The Sunday Times in the UK High Court in June 2006 he must have filed a false affidavit and/or made false oral testimony.

Then we have the case in France of Armstrong had against the publisher and authors of LA Confidentiel. Armstrong was awarded 1 Euro damages and must also have sworn false testimony.

Add to that the French investigation into US Postal and the Italian courts relating to Ferrari & Simeoni and there is a smörgåsbord of offerings.

Non Analytical Positive

Requires only non threshold positive tests results to evidence drug use, circumstantial evidence and eye witness evidence of admissions.

WADA/USADA can demand and have demanded test results and the labs being WADA credited the lab experts would be available for testimony.

1999 glucocorticosteroids positive covered up by backdating prescription. Required TUE and that drug did not have a threshold as falsely claimed by UCI. Note Frankie Andreu on 1999 US Postal team.

2001 EPO positive. Swiss lab director claimed it was "suspicious" as he asserted French lab had not fixed a threshold level until 2002. But Swiss lab had processed Roland Meier as positive for EPO in April 2001.

 

[Anonymous]

Only fringe sees injustice.

Nope. Only those with more than half a brain.

 

[jackwolf]

Well, the petition doesn't look very promising I have to admit. It really seems like we are a bunch of freaks with a weird hobby and an even weirder obsession. However, I still don't see the Republicans letting this slide: opportunities like this don't come up every day, and this is election year. The likely reason Armstrong was let off the hook is also the likely reason he will get in trouble again. That's the check and balance in a democracy, I suppose. We have party A to keep an eye on party B, party B to keep an eye on party A, and the media in the middle. I don't think the **** is going to hit the fan anytime soon as Race Radio suggested, and I don't think this is over as The Hog suggested either (especially considering how unusually subdued Lance is at the moment). The Republicans need to play this card as intelligently as possible, so I expect all this to simmer for a bit, build up slowly, and then explode sometime around September. There's plenty of time left, and this could be the most interesting year ever Armstrong-wise. Armstrong is no longer in control but at the mercy of interests and forces much stronger than him. I may be wrong or I may be right, but if I do get it right, I'll certainly re-read this post with pleasure in September, and seeing Lance on the receiving (rather than the giving) end of a "smear" campaign for a few months is something I will enjoy immensely.

Did somebody say Tyler hasn't signed yet? He's number 4, yo. And it's not like Tyler, Betsy, and Floyd are going to push us over the 25,000 line, ha ha.

 

[MarkvW]

Nope. Only those with more than half a brain.

Those with more than half a brain don't give Lance Armstrong much thought.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Well, the petition doesn't look very promising I have to admit. It really seems like we are a bunch of freaks with a weird hobby and an even weirder obsession. However, I still don't see the Republicans letting this slide: opportunities like this don't come up every day, and this is election year. The likely reason Armstrong was let off the hook is also the likely reason he will get in trouble again. That's the check and balance in a democracy, I suppose. We have party A to keep an eye on party B, party B to keep an eye on party A, and the media in the middle. I don't think the **** is going to hit the fan anytime soon as Race Radio suggested, and I don't think this is over as The Hog suggested either (especially considering how unusually subdued Lance is at the moment). The Republicans need to play this card as intelligently as possible, so I expect all this to simmer for a bit, build up slowly, and then explode sometime around September. There's plenty of time left, and this could be the most interesting year ever Armstrong-wise. Armstrong is no longer in control but at the mercy of interests and forces much stronger than him. I may be wrong or I may be right, but if I do get it right, I'll certainly re-read this post with pleasure in September, and seeing Lance on the receiving (rather than the giving) end of a "smear" campaign for a few months is something I will enjoy immensely.

Did somebody say Tyler hasn't signed yet? He's number 4, yo. And it's not like Tyler, Betsy, and Floyd are going to push us over the 25,000 line, ha ha.

With a little push from 60 Minutes....

 

[scribe]

Those with more than half a brain don't give Lance Armstrong much thought.

http://live.ironmanlive.com/Event/Ironman_703_Panama

In case anyone is interested.

 

[fatandfast]

Cycling is really revealing itself to the world. Athletes contesting major races,influencing finance and the fan base only to have a trial heard years after offense. The Ullrich and Contador cases have mocked further pro cyclings stupid systems of testing and punishment.

Now there is more crying about reinvolving the a different branch of the US government about some of Armstrong's bike racing results from a decade ago. The general public has made it clear what they think of Armstrong, his support would appear to be strong and if people are thinking with only part of the brain as suggested. They are obviously using the part that gives checks and credit card numbers to products and charities that Armstrong endorses.

For the sake of pro cycling we can all hope that the details of any Armstrong investigation are fewer and farther between than the previous inquiry which yielded lots,all of it bad for bike racing. If indeed somebody else takes on the lets punish Armstrong crusade, he or she will look as petty as humanly possible. Even any statements given to the press will look like Mr.Burns talking to the concerned citizens of Springfield, with Homer Simpson somehow involved .
The general public and TV stations will be even more adverse to airing pro cycling if a large vocal group proclaims that finding out the truth about a race in France a decade ago is a top priority. Pro cycling better get help at making it look like other professional sports around the world. The controls currently in place make it look everything but professional.

Ullrich has not raced a bike in years. People on the outside must look at cycling's justice system as completely stupid given the time frame of these recent verdicts

 

[thehog]

Cycling is really revealing itself to the world. Athletes contesting major races,influencing finance and the fan base only to have a trial heard years after offense. The Ullrich and Contador cases have mocked further pro cyclings stupid systems of testing and punishment.

Now there is more crying about reinvolving the a different branch of the US government about some of Armstrong's bike racing results from a decade ago. The general public has made it clear what they think of Armstrong, his support would appear to be strong and if people are thinking with only part of the brain as suggested. They are obviously using the part that gives checks and credit card numbers to products and charities that Armstrong endorses.

For the sake of pro cycling we can all hope that the details of any Armstrong investigation are fewer and farther between than the previous inquiry which yielded lots,all of it bad for bike racing. If indeed somebody else takes on the lets punish Armstrong crusade, he or she will look as petty as humanly possible. Even any statements given to the press will look like Mr.Burns talking to the concerned citizens of Springfield, with Homer Simpson somehow involved .
The general public and TV stations will be even more adverse to airing pro cycling if a large vocal group proclaims that finding out the truth about a race in France a decade ago is a top priority. Pro cycling better get help at making it look like other professional sports around the world. The controls currently in place make it look everything but professional.

Ullrich has not raced a bike in years. People on the outside must look at cycling's justice system as completely stupid given the time frame of these recent verdicts

I agree. Lets keep this thing locked down. Best not to talk about it. Best to pretend all is ok and it will just go away.

Problem being Armstrong will keep popping up pretending he's clean and an inspiration and things just seem to come back.

Perhaps if he came out with it all we could move on.

Thats what we teach our kids isn't it?

 

[Anonymous]

Those with more than half a brain don't give Lance Armstrong much thought.

Which, without doubt, explains why you spend your time on this tread.

 

[Epicycle]

I really don't see the Republicans pushing the issue unless a very damaging smoking gun emerges...like emails that show something improper going on between the Armstrong camp and somebody high in the Department of Justice, or something like that. It's just not worth it politically to pursue Armstrong. Going after the cancer fighter is not going to score points with the electorate and continuing a costly prosecution of a sports figure isn't going to resonate with Republican voters concerned with financial austerity. Something will have to come out that directly points to serious corruption in the Obama administration, otherwise it's not worth making an issue.

 

[scribe]

Panama

Top 5 Men - Finish

1 3:50:13 16 Bevan Docherty Santa Cruz CA NZL
2 3:50:55 0:42 24 Lance Armstron Austin TX USA
3 3:52:59 2:46 5 Richie Cunningh Boulder CO AUS
4 3:53:38 3:25 4 Rasmus Henning Tuineje DOM
5 3:54:44 4:31 12 Romain Guillaum Montmorot FRA

Race Radio might be able to explain what we are looking at here.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

I agree. Lets keep this thing locked down. Best not to talk about it. Best to pretend all is ok and it will just go away.

Problem being Armstrong will keep popping up pretending he's clean and an inspiration and things just seem to come back.

Perhaps if he came out with it all we could move on.

Thats what we teach our kids isn't it?

If Armstrong went away the story would die.

This guy seeks world domination so it will always be a viable story and the truth will come out.

Be patient.

 

[MarkvW]

108 signatures (still) on the "overwhelming evidence" petition. Do only 108 people want the President to violate the secrecy of the Grand Jury?

From "Certain Indictment" to "Improper Influence;" What will the "Talking Points" morph into next? Is Fabiani still manipulating threads in the Clinic?

This thread sure has been fun!

 

[jackwolf]

Those with more than half a brain don't give Lance Armstrong much thought.

May be true, or may not be, but you're obviously not among those judging by your number of posts on the subject.

 

[MarkvW]

May be true, or may not be, but you're obviously not among those judging by your number of posts on the subject.

I may be one of the few with less than half a brain who think that Armstrong was a big doper and led a big doping team, that's for sure.

 

[Race Radio]

Panama

Top 5 Men - Finish

1 3:50:13 16 Bevan Docherty Santa Cruz CA NZL
2 3:50:55 0:42 24 Lance Armstron Austin TX USA
3 3:52:59 2:46 5 Richie Cunningh Boulder CO AUS
4 3:53:38 3:25 4 Rasmus Henning Tuineje DOM
5 3:54:44 4:31 12 Romain Guillaum Montmorot FRA

Race Radio might be able to explain what we are looking at here.

is this that sport where they ride horses, then ski, then shoot guns?

 

[rickibobbi]

strange sport cycling

clearly it was never about whether Armstrong doped, etc, but how, everyone inside the sport knew it, its interesting how this got translated into a real legal investigation. Sometimes there is a disjunction between what counts as legal evidence and what humans actually do. That being said, I don't give a hoot whether Armstrong doped or not, whether he's a good person or not. Whether he or doping is good for pro cycling, really, who cares. His organization has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. This is the real story and not what happens in a relatively rarefied and brutal sport of cycling (yes, I have participated at relatively high levels in said brutal sport).

 

[MarkvW]

clearly it was never about whether Armstrong doped, etc, but how, everyone inside the sport knew it, its interesting how this got translated into a real legal investigation. Sometimes there is a disjunction between what counts as legal evidence and what humans actually do. That being said, I don't give a hoot whether Armstrong doped or not, whether he's a good person or not. Whether he or doping is good for pro cycling, really, who cares. His organization has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. This is the real story and not what happens in a relatively rarefied and brutal sport of cycling (yes, I have participated at relatively high levels in said brutal sport).

Your facts are incorrect. Neither Armstrong nor his foundation, nor any of that stuff, raises money for cancer research. Look it up. The foundation is all about awareness--and increasing the value of the Livestrong brand.

 

[Velodude]

108 signatures (still) on the "overwhelming evidence" petition. Do only 108 people want the President to violate the secrecy of the Grand Jury?

From "Certain Indictment" to "Improper Influence;" What will the "Talking Points" morph into next? Is Fabiani still manipulating threads in the Clinic?

This thread sure has been fun!

Does it take a political intervention into the wheels of justice to cause a euphoria creating 180 degree flip flop by MarkvW?

Quotes from previous MarkvW posts:

I'm not sitting on a fence! Armstrong's a scum doper, no better than any of the zillion other scum doper cheats in the pro peloton.

The lowest form of scum!

My personal opinion is that Armstrong is a loathsome creature (lower than Papp or Landis or even Rasmussen). I'd like to see an indictment that requires proof that he was a doper

 

[MarkvW]

The "overwhelming evidence" petition is up to 109 signatures now.

 

[Benotti69]

clearly it was never about whether Armstrong doped, etc, but how, everyone inside the sport knew it, its interesting how this got translated into a real legal investigation. Sometimes there is a disjunction between what counts as legal evidence and what humans actually do. That being said, I don't give a hoot whether Armstrong doped or not, whether he's a good person or not. Whether he or doping is good for pro cycling, really, who cares. His organization has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. This is the real story and not what happens in a relatively rarefied and brutal sport of cycling (yes, I have participated at relatively high levels in said brutal sport).

"His organization has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research"

More lies. That myth was debunked even by Armstrong.

No wonder it gets the nickname LIESTRONG and you have been here since 2009.

Whose sockpuppet are you?

You are behind the times. It is AWARENESS, get with the program, jeez where do live$trong get these guys?????

 

[mewmewmew13]

is this that sport where they ride horses, then ski, then shoot guns?

Whatever sport it is, however contrived, we know that Armstrong wants to dominate it.

 

[Granville57]

Whatever sport it is, however contrived, we know that Armstrong wants to dominate it.

It's true!

The Armstrong Curling Club

Edit:
OMG, it gets worse!
http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/fitness/exercise/curling/

Much worse...
http://www.livestrong.com/article/554793-how-to-improve-your-curling-slide/